Brussels Airlines in 2019

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PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU »

b720 wrote: 08 Nov 2019, 22:41 Cost cutting already visible. No more free complimentary meals and drinks on Flex and fast!
If that's how they want to find 160 million...

In August I read the b.inspired magazine (can be found online at http://binspired.ink-live.com/html5/rea ... 429ea0aba7 ) introducing the new "Director North America" on page 6 and on page 118 (122 in French, 125 in Dutch) there's an interview with the "Marketing Manager North America". The marketing manager role is shared with Eurowings, how would that work when SN is detached from EW again? Anyway there must be quite some personnel needed for the 2-3 destinations in North America, putting high pressure on those seats to be profitable.

I really hope they dare to look at the cost of the personnel not creating any value directly, and not only skimping on the cost of the service to the customers or the personnel doing the actual work.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba »

flightlover wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 08:17
lumumba wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 01:29 I flew in fast and flex in August with complimentary catering included!
I think it is more to do with the time you ordered the tickets. If you have a ticket including a meal they just can't tell you last minute: "sorry but you will not get what you paid for."
It was a last minute upgrade but anyway not important.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by CTBke »

lumumba wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 10:49
flightlover wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 08:17
lumumba wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 01:29 I flew in fast and flex in August with complimentary catering included!
I think it is more to do with the time you ordered the tickets. If you have a ticket including a meal they just can't tell you last minute: "sorry but you will not get what you paid for."
It was a last minute upgrade but anyway not important.
That's what they did, with the start of the winter season no complimentary meal or drinks are included in the Flex&Fast Cabin, this was based upon the customer's need as they prefer flexibility and priority boarding over the same meal everyday (if you're a frequent traveler this was the case ) to me it look's like they took over Eurowings approach where their BizzClass only receives a meal while other classes have the bistro.

Not sure what CF is doing with her airline, at one side she stopped the integration but at the other side she copies the short haul product of EW..
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b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

Btw speedy boarding on easyjet is actually better and cheaper.
1. Easyjet .. cancellation and full refund of ticket is possible up to 24 hours after booking.
2. Change of reservation and name is possible against a small fee.. up to hours before departure
3. Speedy boarding includes priority boarding plus seats reserved front rows plus over head buns reserved plus two pieces of hand luggage..
Much more that what SN offers, and for a fraction of the price...
Moving to easy on all flights, when possible, as of jan 2020.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DannyVDB »

sn26567 wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 09:49
b720 wrote: Prices to GVA for instance start at EUR 289 o/w on flex and fast.. return flight is close to EUR 600! They can at least still offer drinks on short Flights! Not a good idea to cut on premium pax.
Cutting the meals on F&F goes against what CEO Christina Foerster said at Thursday's press conference. She said SN should be positioned as a "quality airline", as opposed to a low-cost.
There are very few airlines where you get meals and drinks in economy (even when the ticket is expensive, e.g. Y). Usually only in business.

Second consideration: I fly a lot in felx&fast, also sometimes in business on short haul (a lot in business on long haul) and many people even refuse the meal and drinks (yes also in business).

[I have that 'issue' often on laung haul - you are on the long section, get a breakfast, then - is you are in business - you have the short section, and again a meal. It doesn't make sense, does it?]

Also, many people that pay more for their tickets usually are also in the lounge prior to their flight (the lounges of SN are really crowded) and you can get plenty of stuff there, so why having another meal?

I agree they could be more flexible to have a glass of water or so ...

Just my 2 cents,
Danny

CRJ 900
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by CRJ 900 »

If for instance I have the choice flying to VIE on a flexible ticket, I would rather take the OS flight now, might even be with a SN code share ticket. SN and OS are most of the time flying around the same time.
Just because it makes you feel more welcome, or less neglected, as premium passenger.
For my light tickets, I don’t bother on the other hand because I know what service I ordered and at what price.
It is all a question of perception and experience as customer and the value you expect for a certain price.
Rgds
CRJ 900

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by CTBke »

CRJ 900 wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 11:39 If for instance I have the choice flying to VIE on a flexible ticket, I would rather take the OS flight now, might even be with a SN code share ticket. SN and OS are most of the time flying around the same time.
Just because it makes you feel more welcome, or less neglected, as premium passenger.
For my light tickets, I don’t bother on the other hand because I know what service I ordered and at what price.
It is all a question of perception and experience as customer and the value you expect for a certain price.
Rgds
CRJ 900
not sure how long OS will keep that service as they're also in Reboot now... little by little complimentary inflight service will dissapear while pushing flexibility and priority boarding forward (exactly like the LCC are offering already)
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Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

CTBke wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 11:09Not sure what CF is doing with her airline, at one side she stopped the integration but at the other side she copies the short haul product of EW..
Some simple menu comparisons...

Menu's here:
http://web.brusselsairlines.com/pdf/red ... 201911.pdf
https://www.eurowings.com/content/dam/e ... Bistro.pdf

M&M's
SN E 2,50 for 70g
EW E1,50 for 45g

Sandwich
SN: E 6,-
EW: E 5,-

Beer
SN: E 4,-
EW: E 3,50

Coffee
SN: E 3,-
EW: E 2,50

SN is still the premium carrier not because the service is better but because of premium pricing. :lol: About 20% more on average. One of the most expensive BoB menu's I've seen.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax »

CTBke wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 13:01 not sure how long OS will keep that service as they're also in Reboot now... little by little complimentary inflight service will dissapear while pushing flexibility and priority boarding forward (exactly like the LCC are offering already)
The most profitable airline group in Europe (IAG, in case someone wouldn't know) has buy-on-board catering on all of its intra-EU services (Vueling and Level obviously, as well as Aer Lingus which is the most comparable with SN, but also BA and IB) unless when you fly in Business on IB/BA/EI (in case of EI it's a complimentary snack/drink from their BOB menu, same as EW - except on the few flights served by the new A321LR's).
They don't make the difference on short haul Economy catering because it's not a major decisive factor in people's decision making.

I'm more than convinced that airlines like OS will not continue with free catering for all (on short haul) for long.

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey »

It's not only SN that makes some adjustments to its meal offering: https://onemileatatime.com/lufthansa-re ... l-service/

It's been previously said on this forum the LH, LX, OS and SN are streamlining their offer, among synergies and other benefits, this will also enable SN flights to be sold on the website of LH, LX and OS. Which in the end is a good thing.

AIRMARSHAL
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by AIRMARSHAL »

b720 wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 11:20 Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

AIRMARSHAL wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 00:41
b720 wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 11:20 Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

b720 wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 07:40
AIRMARSHAL wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 00:41
b720 wrote: 09 Nov 2019, 11:20 Service on business is also reduced dramatically..
That was the case already a few months back...
Problems is that business tickets within Europe can cost around EUR 1000.
I think that it is scandalous that one needs to pay for water after having spent almost 600 EUR for a 50 min flight
On flex&fast..
what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..
In fact nothing to do with the recent BRU MAD with KLM that I made ... a water and a waffle on AMS and a small bottle of wine and a dish of cold pasta but good on MAD ... all for free in eco class. In short ... perfect!

b720
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

nordikcam wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 10:09
b720 wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 07:40
AIRMARSHAL wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 00:41

what's another 3 euro for water, if you can afford 600 euro for a very short flight
It’s like going to a coffee house, paying paying EUR 15
For a regular (almost mediocre) espresso.. and still being charged 1 EUR for sugar and another for milk!
Not a good feeling! It is all about the principle..
In fact nothing to do with the recent BRU MAD with KLM that I made ... a water and a waffle on AMS and a small bottle of wine and a dish of cold pasta but good on MAD ... all for free in eco class. In short ... perfect!
And KLM makes money.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b720 »

cathay belgium wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 11:53 Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
I think that the biggest issue here is the extremely high cost of labour in Belgium. Specifically taxes and social contributions by the employer.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

Still no news on the future of the long haul EW operated by aircraft registered in Belgium?

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover »

cathay belgium wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 11:53 Hi,

Just think of ... they decide that Belgium is the perfect symbiose of French and dutch speakers.. and AF/KLM set up a small child of them here ,let's call it Air Brussel....
A bunch of embraers and B737 ... And a morning A333 for a nice connection in AMS...
Or Emirates , Norwegian to JFK-BOS...

Guess BRU has a lot of opportunities to grow, but maybe we are all wrong as nothing of all this is happening ...
Why ?
LH let SN shrink.. we see a new Wizzair landing in BRU after Ryanair... Next Norwegian ? Why aren't they here yet ? Easy expands Berlin ,...
SN is opening the gap ... to give more away...
Reducing to make progress is just a false fantasy ...
If you want to compete with others you don't turn your back home ....
And all this news don't bring much convidence to the customer... Together with reducing the service level...
Don't see much growth in the future...

CXB
you have a point ;)

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DeltaWiskey »

nordikcam wrote: 10 Nov 2019, 13:05 Still no news on the future of the long haul EW operated by aircraft registered in Belgium?
As from 1 January, LH will sell the flights, EW will concentrate on EU short haul. (This is already known for a long time.)
For SN, the operator of the flights, nothing will change.

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