Brussels Airlines in 2019

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Jetter
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Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

Atlantis wrote: 01 Nov 2019, 11:50Less flights are even better, more pax per bigger plane is much more convenient for the whole environment.

Less flights are also much better for the fact that the airport has a lot of margin to grow. The plafond is not reached yet. And this makes us more attractive then our neighbour airports.

So what is written here in the last couple of posts is completely not relevant and is just writing to write sth as long as it can be negative. But you forget that a few people here can counter this
Atlantis wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:56To business destinations you need to have daily flights and the best are twice daily. On this way you can offer to your pax the needed flexibility. Now they just take the competition bcs of very flexible hours and frequentie.
Good that you changed your mind. Frequency indeed matters when you want to operate a hub and cater to business demand. Or did you just write the first post to discredit my post while you already knew better? :?

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

Jetter wrote: 04 Nov 2019, 18:21
Atlantis wrote: 01 Nov 2019, 11:50Less flights are even better, more pax per bigger plane is much more convenient for the whole environment.

Less flights are also much better for the fact that the airport has a lot of margin to grow. The plafond is not reached yet. And this makes us more attractive then our neighbour airports.

So what is written here in the last couple of posts is completely not relevant and is just writing to write sth as long as it can be negative. But you forget that a few people here can counter this
Atlantis wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:56To business destinations you need to have daily flights and the best are twice daily. On this way you can offer to your pax the needed flexibility. Now they just take the competition bcs of very flexible hours and frequentie.
Good that you changed your mind. Frequency indeed matters when you want to operate a hub and cater to business demand. Or did you just write the first post to discredit my post while you already knew better? :?
Dear Jetter,

I don't change my mind like the wind is blowing.

And both post are completely separate and nothing to do with each other

Jetter
Posts: 477
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

Atlantis wrote: 04 Nov 2019, 19:04
Jetter wrote: 04 Nov 2019, 18:21
Atlantis wrote: 01 Nov 2019, 11:50Less flights are even better, more pax per bigger plane is much more convenient for the whole environment.

Less flights are also much better for the fact that the airport has a lot of margin to grow. The plafond is not reached yet. And this makes us more attractive then our neighbour airports.

So what is written here in the last couple of posts is completely not relevant and is just writing to write sth as long as it can be negative. But you forget that a few people here can counter this
Atlantis wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 19:56To business destinations you need to have daily flights and the best are twice daily. On this way you can offer to your pax the needed flexibility. Now they just take the competition bcs of very flexible hours and frequentie.
Good that you changed your mind. Frequency indeed matters when you want to operate a hub and cater to business demand. Or did you just write the first post to discredit my post while you already knew better? :?
Dear Jetter,

I don't change my mind like the wind is blowing.

And both post are completely separate and nothing to do with each other
Well, less flights and bigger planes don't go well with increased frequencies and flexibility do they?

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

Jetter please...

You are comparing apples with pears.
Less flights since Sabena is in general for all airlines who are flying to BRU. This is for everybody

Increasing business flights for SN I'm saying this already for a long time. This means also decrease the number of leisure flights.
Regional flights are a part of your whole network. With this you will never reach the target which was on 2001.

Instead of blaming people, be happy that there are at least a few people with first hand info. And not like you wrote: "bcs you know better"

Darjeeling
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Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 10:13

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling »

Anyone heard about the social plans at SN ?

It seems that was presented to the unions the past few days is really looking like a social plan, with lay-offs...

The "volunteers" concept is a very special approach... to say the least from what I've read. The ultimate goal being: to get enough volunteers who leave the company at almost zero cost (the famous "dat moet niks kosten" value, so popular at SN management).

If not enough volunteers, several people could be laid-off the next two years (time frame of the plan). The social situation is very critical at SN at the moment, and anxiety is rising every day. The next financial figures and forecasts are pretty bad as well. The Thomas Cook chapter is only part of the explanation...

nordikcam
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

It does not smell good but I'm not subscribed ..."Worse than a social plan"...

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... 264d4580a1

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

The extraordinary works council meeting will take place on Thursday at 08:30. That's when management will officially inform the representatives of the workers. The rest is only guesses, or leaks.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

nordikcam wrote: 05 Nov 2019, 18:46 It does not smell good but I'm not subscribed ..."Worse than a social plan"...

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... 264d4580a1
Free article: www.sudinfo.be/id150211/article/2019-11 ... -la-clarte

No growth until 2022 it mentions. But little shrinkage might be the best to hope for now.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

Atlantis wrote: 03 Nov 2019, 00:38
sn26567 wrote: 02 Nov 2019, 20:36 It's also on the same date, 7 November, that Austrian will disclose details of its huge savings plan

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... operation/
And also AF/KLM will release their Q3 results on the same day, 07/11
Q3 results of AF/KLM have already been published. www.airfranceklm.com/en/system/files/q3 ... 5736_0.pdf

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling »

sn26567 wrote: 05 Nov 2019, 19:10 The extraordinary works council meeting will take place on Thursday at 08:30. That's when management will officially inform the representatives of the workers. The rest is only guesses, or leaks.
Dear sn26567,

If I post the info, it means it's reliable, what more do you want ? Screenshots of union documents already passed to its members ? The "volunteers" plan has already been introduced to the unions, hence the "leaks". SN is just trying to avoid the "Loi-Renault-Wet" with this plan, but people will be sacked.
"Guesses or leaks" is what SN's Internal communication is asking to type/post... I know the inaugural flight to YUL is not that far away and you'd like to keep your "press" perks with them, but if you post something that SN propaganda is asking to post, please mention it for more clarity.

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling »

More info here:

Image

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 »

[Reboot] “Brussels Airlines should achieve an adjusted EBIT of 8% in 2022”

Just before the extraordinary works council that will be held on Thursday morning, the Lufthansa Group confirmed that Brussels Airlines needs to achieve an adjusted EBIT margin of 8% by 2022. From 2022, the airline needs to save more than €160 million per year, about 10% of the current costs.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... 8-in-2022/
André
ex Sabena #26567

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida »

The picture of the LH press release, again and again, says it all:

Image
https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... c61356b898

No Brussels Airlines tail.

Like I said in the LH thread:

They still don't have a clue/plan what to do with Brussels Airlines. They keep excluding them from the Network airlines, while they're no longer part of Eurowings. SN is the 'orphan' of the group: not belonging anywhere. Sad.

Why don't they just sell SN, for god sake? SN clearly is the unwanted child of the group, struggling on its own. Time to look for a better family/group.

Jetter
Posts: 477
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter »

Boavida wrote: 07 Nov 2019, 11:45Why don't they just sell SN, for god sake? SN clearly is the unwanted child of the group, struggling on its own. Time to look for a better family/group.
One reason could be that while SN doesn’t make a lot of money they aren’t very expensive either and it helps keeping competition away.

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover »

And.... yesterday on Flight LH1004...
Edition 10/2019 of the magazine.....
All the Star Alliance on the same page and.... no SN
Kayser CS if you don't want us, sell SN
Attachments
IMG_5943.jpg

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax »

For the stupid picture complaints, the Q3 report itself (the pdf) and the PowerPoint presentation of the Q3 Analyst and Investor Conference Call has a new picture where the SN tail has been added. They just didn't replace the rest.

For the rest of the segmentation it's not finalized in detail yet because that's not a simple matter of communication, but in the official structure of the business. The LHG Vorstand first has to officially approve that and under which terms and conditions SN moves to the Network Airlines organization for this and that (a full inclusion like eg OS and LX would be more costly than today for SN, so it's a matter of working out in detail where SN will be fully integrated and where it continues to work more independently). That's something that takes time, but it will come soon now. When the LHG Vorstand/Executive Board approves how SN will be embedded in the Network Airlines organization, then they will change everything which is visible to the outside world.

But in the meantime the Q3 report clearly says: "[...] Brussels Airlines will be moved to the Network Airlines organization, [...]" and "Brussels Airlines will benefit from close cooperation with Network Airlines" and the PPT présentation shows a slide with both OS and SN on the main actions they take to regain profitability and that includes for SN the comment: "Commercial embedding with Network Airlines".

Don't mistake uncareful communication (like changing some pics but not all etc) with a company strategy and decisions... :roll:
Last edited by RoMax on 07 Nov 2019, 13:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover »

RoMax wrote: 07 Nov 2019, 13:01 For the stupid picture complaints, the Q3 report itself (the pdf) and the PowerPoint presentation of the Q3 Analyst and Investor Conference Call has a new picture where the SN tail has been added. They just didn't replace the rest.

For the rest of the segmentation it's not finalized in detail yet because that's not a simple matter of communication, but in the official structure of the business. The LHG Vorstand first has to officially approve that and under which terms and conditions SN moves to the Network Airlines organization for this and that (a full inclusion like eg OS and LX would be more costly than today for SN, so it's a matter of working out in detail where SN will be fully integrated and where it continues to work more independently). That's something that takes time, but it will come soon now. When the LHG Vorstand/Executive Board approves how SN will be embedded in the Network Airlines organization, then they will change everything which is visible to the outside world.

But in the meantime the Q3 report clearly says: "[...] Brussels Airlines will be moved to the Network Airlines organization, [...]" and "Brussels Airlines will benefit from close cooperation with Network Airlines"
Can you then explain that SN is still not mentionned as STAR Member ?

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax »

Airbus330lover wrote: 07 Nov 2019, 13:03 Can you then explain that SN is still not mentionned as STAR Member ?
That's simply a mistake (unless it talks about something Star Alliance related not used/offered by/applicable to SN - I don't see the full page/ad), nothing to do with SN being part of whatever in the LHG corporate structure.
SN's membership of Star Alliance is completely independent from how SN is structurally fitted in LHG (unless it would be decided that SN shouldn't be part of Star, which is not the case and even if it would be the case, as long as SN is a member, and they are, the communication has to be as such).

As I added to my previous post, don't mix communication or visual 'mistakes' with corporate decisions.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by BrightCedars »

Airbus330lover wrote: 07 Nov 2019, 13:03 Can you then explain that SN is still not mentionned as STAR Member ?
Sure, the people in charge of the magazine have not been informed of SN's new status as not being hidden under the EW umbrella, or didn't act on it yet.

We should rejoice: SN is given a chance to move away from the EW model and prove itself worthy of being listed as one of the network carriers. They have 2 years to do this.

Would LH sell SN? I don't think so. If SN fails to reboot, they will go back to the EW umbrella and African routes will be plundered by the other remaining network airlines. If they succeed, they might be allowed back at LH's grown ups table and reap the benefits of group membership.

In any case, selling or letting SN fail is extremely dangerous for LH. If they sell there will only be the big competitors able to purchase: do they want AFKL or IAG at their doorstep? If SN fails, BRU has the potential, and this against all of AFKL with AMS/CDG, IAG with LHR & LH with FRA, to become the low cost European & Transatlantic platform smack in the middle of this lucrative catch area.

My 2 €c

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Airbus330lover wrote: 07 Nov 2019, 12:55 And.... yesterday on Flight LH1004...
Edition 10/2019 of the magazine.....
All the Star Alliance on the same page and.... no SN
Kayser CS if you don't want us, sell SN
Indeed, "just" a blunder, a mistake.
Correction, several mistakes. Avianca and SAS have also been forgotten in the list of Star members.

But the picture is interesting, worth a thousand words.
Amateurs.

H.A.

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