Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4931
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

All lounges at BRU will receive an upgrade. All lounges will be visited this week with the involved parties

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1892
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

Just an idea (coming from KLM replacing one daily flight with a train connection): why not use the Diabolo underneath A-pier West and have a second station built, exclusively for (high speed) train services from the neighbouring countries? Now they still have the room and the possibilities to do so...

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4931
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

Conti764 wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 17:50 Just an idea (coming from KLM replacing one daily flight with a train connection): why not use the Diabolo underneath A-pier West and have a second station built, exclusively for (high speed) train services from the neighbouring countries? Now they still have the room and the possibilities to do so...
They will never do that. Two stations so close together. Infrabel and certainly NMBS doesn't have the funds for that.

Better is to make from Brussels Airport train station a serious train station. With the needed tracks and higher frequencies. Connected with important cities in Belgium and with our neighbour countries

People has to pay already this Diabolo tax, they will not pay an extra one bcs of a new station a few meters further

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 3059
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Atlantis wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 18:22 Infrabel and certainly NMBS doesn't have the funds for that.
Precisely.
Atlantis wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 18:22Better is to make from Brussels Airport train station a serious train station. With the needed tracks and higher frequencies. Connected with important cities in Belgium and with our neighbour countries
The present utilisation is rather unfortunate: the IC trains from Dinant and Charleroi have the airport station for their terminus, which makes them stand there for quite a long while which is not a very efficient way to use this expensive infrastructure. There should be more trains like the Antwerpen-Airport-Hasselt IC, but I understand this cannot be done currently for lack of capacity in Mechelen station. The major works in Mechelen station will add two platforms to that station, and more capacity extensions; this should allow for more through trains in the airport.
Atlantis wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 18:22People has to pay already this Diabolo tax, they will not pay an extra one bcs of a new station a few meters further.
Again, spot on. But it also explains that additional tracks/platforms at the airport station are not to be expected soon. Nor is there any urgent need.

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1892
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

Atlantis wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 18:22
Conti764 wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 17:50 Just an idea (coming from KLM replacing one daily flight with a train connection): why not use the Diabolo underneath A-pier West and have a second station built, exclusively for (high speed) train services from the neighbouring countries? Now they still have the room and the possibilities to do so...
They will never do that. Two stations so close together. Infrabel and certainly NMBS doesn't have the funds for that.

Better is to make from Brussels Airport train station a serious train station. With the needed tracks and higher frequencies. Connected with important cities in Belgium and with our neighbour countries

People has to pay already this Diabolo tax, they will not pay an extra one bcs of a new station a few meters further
Yes, you're right, and unfortunately legally BAC can't finance.

It would be just great to have direct access from the train platform towards the terminal that when finished will be the center of BRU's biggest operation (Star Alliance)...

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1892
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 19:16 The present utilisation is rather unfortunate: the IC trains from Dinant and Charleroi have the airport station for their terminus, which makes them stand there for quite a long while which is not a very efficient way to use this expensive infrastructure. There should be more trains like the Antwerpen-Airport-Hasselt IC, but I understand this cannot be done currently for lack of capacity in Mechelen station. The major works in Mechelen station will add two platforms to that station, and more capacity extensions; this should allow for more through trains in the airport.
Than again, not every train through the airport should have to go to Antwerp. You could have trains coming in from east of Brussels, pass through BRU station and turn towards Brussels iso Antwerp at the E19.

I'd integrate BRU station into the larger Brussels rail network and have it act as a sort of Brussels East station...

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 3059
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Turn towards Brussels would end up either in the North-South tunnel, which is totally saturated, or on line 26 (the one that bypasses Brussels centre on the east side) which is also nearing saturation with the recent additions for GEN/RER. You'd be surprised how full the railways around Brussels are. Consult hgbtf.net to learn more - that is where I got all this from :)

I agree, though, that not all trains need to continue to Antwerpen: Mechelen is incontournable, but from there they could continue also to Lier + Kempen area or, after reversing (not the best of ideas, it takes quite a bit of time), towards Sint Niklaas / Dendermonde / Gent.

And no, capacity at the airport station is limited enough, it should be reserved for its prime purpose: airport traffic. Either aircraft passengers or airport staff.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 2059
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by lumumba »

Conti764 wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 19:27
jan_olieslagers wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 19:16 The present utilisation is rather unfortunate: the IC trains from Dinant and Charleroi have the airport station for their terminus, which makes them stand there for quite a long while which is not a very efficient way to use this expensive infrastructure. There should be more trains like the Antwerpen-Airport-Hasselt IC, but I understand this cannot be done currently for lack of capacity in Mechelen station. The major works in Mechelen station will add two platforms to that station, and more capacity extensions; this should allow for more through trains in the airport.
Than again, not every train through the airport should have to go to Antwerp. You could have trains coming in from east of Brussels, pass through BRU station and turn towards Brussels iso Antwerp at the E19.

I'd integrate BRU station into the larger Brussels rail network and have it act as a sort of Brussels East station...
Looks a good idea indeed!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1892
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 20:06 Turn towards Brussels would end up either in the North-South tunnel, which is totally saturated, or on line 26 (the one that bypasses Brussels centre on the east side) which is also nearing saturation with the recent additions for GEN/RER. You'd be surprised how full the railways around Brussels are. Consult hgbtf.net to learn more - that is where I got all this from :)

I agree, though, that not all trains need to continue to Antwerpen: Mechelen is incontournable, but from there they could continue also to Lier + Kempen area or, after reversing (not the best of ideas, it takes quite a bit of time), towards Sint Niklaas / Dendermonde / Gent.

And no, capacity at the airport station is limited enough, it should be reserved for its prime purpose: airport traffic. Either aircraft passengers or airport staff.
That's why I'm with Atlantis that capacity should be increased at the station. I too follow hgbtf.net and I know that the North-South Junction is a mess and the root cause for most delays in this country's railway system. That's why BRU station should be integrated into the system, together with Brussels Weststation. I know it's far from aviation so forgive me going off topic, but the entire railway system should be redesigned with a difference between trains being allowed to go through the North-South junction, preferably double deck trains, international trains and RER-trains only. The rest should be connected with the Brussels railway system through Brussels Airport (Brussels East) and Brussels West with through trains connecting multiple station pairs, offering smooth connections to frequent RER-trains.

If you look at the Brussels Airport 2040 website, you also see that business activities will increase a lot in the coming years. Unless you want more and more commuters cars in the parkings, taking away valuable parking space for travelers you'll have to upgrade public transportation and the train is prime in that scheme.

In order to make their business-project work, BAC should go after companies currently active in Brussels. With all the limitations imposed on cars in the Brussels capital region and trainservice either being scarce or running with a sizeable delay, companies might be tempted to move their activity to an easy to reach multimodal site not far from Brussels city center. But for such ambition you need more capacity to the prefered means of travel. And given everything takes time in Belgium, you better start early.

ezis_bis
Posts: 280
Joined: 07 Aug 2014, 17:11
Location: Tallinn, EU

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by ezis_bis »

I strongly disagree with bringing more cars to BRU. Often I need to pick up and drop off people at BRU, several times a week. During rush hour it's truly horrible.
For myself I always go with bus 12, it's really convenient. Hell, even the train is. It really is.
Public transport in and around Brussels is really not bad, I don't get why Belgians so stubbornly stick with cars. In all the countries around us, cities are working towards better mobility, but in Belgium you don't seem to want. Locals prefer to spend €1 billion on roadworks so they can be stuck in their car, rather than €5 on literally anything else and actually move.
It baffles me.

Greetz from Tallinn (where Public Transport is free so people stop being stuck in cars)

User avatar
Airbus330lover
Posts: 883
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Airbus330lover »

Try to go to Bru with heavy luggage from Ottignies (not a small station)
No direct link. same for other parts of Belgium.
Many points to review : lines, station, ....

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4931
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

The aim is that more or less 50% of the travellers go by public transport to BRU. In December the first trambus will have its inauguration. But I'm curious if more lines will follow bcs only one is not enough. From Leuven and other parts close to Brussels Airport should have this trambus too.
A real tram line to Brussels is also foreseen in the near future.

But bringing more business to the Airport brings also more cars there which will disturb the real travellers. For them parkings outside the Airport area would been foreseen and should be. Bcs you cannot harm your core business which are pax.

I agree with member ezis_bis that bringing more cars to BRU is not a good idea. Priority are first PAX to give them all the accomodation which is needed.

Trains should be much more bcs they can bring huge volume. Sharp prices, comfortable trains, high frequency. This together with busses, trambus and tram.

Furthermore there should be a drastic change in mentality regarding using the car. But how? To make it extremely expensive to use it? Than the government Will be against themself bcs they earn a lot via the taxes on petrol. So than you have to make public transport very attractive

PttU
Posts: 419
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 15:07

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by PttU »

Conti764 wrote: 13 Sep 2019, 17:50 Just an idea (coming from KLM replacing one daily flight with a train connection): why not use the Diabolo underneath A-pier West and have a second station built, exclusively for (high speed) train services from the neighbouring countries? Now they still have the room and the possibilities to do so...
Strange thing in this whole "BRU Station" discussion, is the discussion of the root cause. Why should there be trains to replace BRU-AMS or BRU-CDG flights? The only reason is that currently those flights are used because it's cheaper to fly BRU-AMS-Wherever than booking only AMS-Wherever, and providing your own transport to AMS, either by train, car, bus,... Don't try to fix the crazy situation of cheaper connecting flights by spending more money on the train stations.
There should hardly be any traffic on a trainroute between BRU, CDG and AMS (the airports) as there's nobody having those two as both their origin and destination. So in that way, a Thalys shouldn't stop at BRU, but other national trains should. Ideally also international trains, but as those routes are "thinner", international busses should be a better option. That, combined with a more "logical" pricing where it's cheaper to fly less.

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4931
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

The new Trambus to BRU is again postponed. Now till Spring next year. Reason is now the Brussels government.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 2059
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by lumumba »

It's scandalous again no electricity at the airport and the waiting time for the passport control for the African flights is HUGE till gate A55!!!!
Big mess here ....this is crazy. No communication from Brussels Airlines people are panicking really bad service.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Sonho1985
Posts: 60
Joined: 27 Mar 2014, 16:06

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Sonho1985 »

Airbus330lover wrote: 14 Sep 2019, 10:17 Try to go to Bru with heavy luggage from Ottignies (not a small station)
No direct link. same for other parts of Belgium.
Many points to review : lines, station, ....
- no storage for bigger pieces of luggage in train cabins (overhead racks are made for small bags only, so the only solution is put them at the entrance doors where you are bothering other people and you need to keep standing there because you are afraid that somebody will take them).
- as said by Airbus330lover: no direct connection from many parts of the country, good luck changing trains in any Brussels station with two heavy pieces of luggage.
- train tickets in Belgium are way to expensive. In the BRU area there are cheaper parking lots (not the official ones), especially when only travelling for a few days. I often find Ryanair-flights that are cheaper than travelling by train in Belgium. But this kind of hypocrisy is common in our country. Really want to to something for the climate? Well, then make train tickets, solar panels, electric cars etc. etc. affordable and trustworthy.
- no trains between 23h30 and 5h00 at all, so if your flight leaves before 8h00 or arrives after 22h there is no realistic train connection available between BRU and the place where you live (or you have to spend the night on a bench in the station).

JOVAN
Posts: 488
Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

lumumba wrote: 30 Oct 2019, 10:22 It's scandalous again no electricity at the airport and the waiting time for the passport control for the African flights is HUGE till gate A55!!!!
Big mess here ....this is crazy. No communication from Brussels Airlines people are panicking really bad service.
Incidents continue in a very frequent way. Unbelievable.

Apart from this : passport control (departure and arrival in Pier B) and baggage delivery continue to be disastrous.
Unless you have to be in Brussels, you have to avoid this place.

Everything for the Shareholder is clearly the policy.

pax are unfortunately only needed to generate more income.

Airporttaxes are a rip-off.

OSTRICH Policies and blaming other subcontractors, railways, police, security agents will not help.
Growth is already very slow and BRU pax-numbers might be shrinking in coming years.

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4931
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

Sonho1985 wrote: 30 Oct 2019, 14:42
Airbus330lover wrote: 14 Sep 2019, 10:17 Try to go to Bru with heavy luggage from Ottignies (not a small station)
No direct link. same for other parts of Belgium.
Many points to review : lines, station, ....
- no storage for bigger pieces of luggage in train cabins (overhead racks are made for small bags only, so the only solution is put them at the entrance doors where you are bothering other people and you need to keep standing there because you are afraid that somebody will take them).
- as said by Airbus330lover: no direct connection from many parts of the country, good luck changing trains in any Brussels station with two heavy pieces of luggage.
- train tickets in Belgium are way to expensive. In the BRU area there are cheaper parking lots (not the official ones), especially when only travelling for a few days. I often find Ryanair-flights that are cheaper than travelling by train in Belgium. But this kind of hypocrisy is common in our country. Really want to to something for the climate? Well, then make train tickets, solar panels, electric cars etc. etc. affordable and trustworthy.
- no trains between 23h30 and 5h00 at all, so if your flight leaves before 8h00 or arrives after 22h there is no realistic train connection available between BRU and the place where you live (or you have to spend the night on a bench in the station).
And train tickets will become even more expensive.

This is the world upside down. How they would take cars away from the road if public transport becomes more and more expensive.

Belgium should sent some people to the Baltics and a few other close countries where public transport is completely free of charge and to learn from it....

nordikcam
Posts: 1202
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by nordikcam »

JOVAN wrote: 30 Oct 2019, 15:22
lumumba wrote: 30 Oct 2019, 10:22 It's scandalous again no electricity at the airport and the waiting time for the passport control for the African flights is HUGE till gate A55!!!!
Big mess here ....this is crazy. No communication from Brussels Airlines people are panicking really bad service.
Incidents continue in a very frequent way. Unbelievable.

Apart from this : passport control (departure and arrival in Pier B) and baggage delivery continue to be disastrous.
Unless you have to be in Brussels, you have to avoid this place.

Everything for the Shareholder is clearly the policy.

pax are unfortunately only needed to generate more income.

Airporttaxes are a rip-off.

OSTRICH Policies and blaming other subcontractors, railways, police, security agents will not help.
Growth is already very slow and BRU pax-numbers might be shrinking in coming years.
Conclusion to which I arrived two or three years ago already ... and I live in Uccle (Brussels). When I read what I read here I do not think back but to be honest it is more because of the unreliability of the so-called national company more and more sick than for the difficulties related to the services of the airport!

lucas
Posts: 204
Joined: 01 Feb 2017, 15:06

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by lucas »

Has anyone an idea how far the plans for pier A West have evolved? Wasnt it due to open in 2023, like first stated in the Strategic Vision 2040? Is here anyone who has an idea which decisions already have been made, or still have to be made? When is construction likely to begin?
Thanks!

Post Reply