The Thomas Cook bankruptcy and its aftermath

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Bralo20
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Bralo20 » 24 Sep 2019, 10:52

So, besides the above mentioned Thomas Cook branches it seems the goose with the golden eggs in Belgium is a holding company called Thomas Cook Financial Services Belgium NV which generated a net profit of over 10 million EUR last financial year and is currently sitting on 145 million EUR in unused profits...

Darjeeling
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Darjeeling » 24 Sep 2019, 11:28

PttU wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 10:23
Passenger wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 09:27
The two rotations that are cancelled today, are charter flights exclusive for Thomas Cook. That way, Brussels Airlines puts all the responsability with THCB (as the B2B contract states).
Indeed, those destinations aren't even on the destinations-map of SN. So I assume these are indeed scheduled charter-flights, (supposed to be) paid fully by Thomas Cook. This contrary to the seats filled by TC-tourists on "regular" SN-flights, even to leisure-destinations.
What the internal difference is between flights to Tunisia (like SN388#-flightnumbers) and for instance flights to Marrakesh/Agadir (SN384# or SN385#-flight numbers), or how to tell the difference between scheduled charters or regular flights is unknown to me.
I was wondering the same exact thing, but indeed, you can't book Tunisia bound flights on SN's website.

:arrow: Now let's be honest, this will be real PITA for SN. When you know that a Greek island bound flight was filled by up to 80% of T.C.B clients / seats allotments... I think they will really need to reshuffle and reshape their future route network. Or even to get rid of one or two A320. Since they have a permanent lack of crew issue, it can't necessarily be wrong. They need to focus on profitable business / niche market (like Yerevan, Tel-Aviv, .... ).

PttU
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by PttU » 24 Sep 2019, 11:32

Darjeeling wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 11:28
PttU wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 10:23
Passenger wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 09:27
The two rotations that are cancelled today, are charter flights exclusive for Thomas Cook. That way, Brussels Airlines puts all the responsability with THCB (as the B2B contract states).
Indeed, those destinations aren't even on the destinations-map of SN. So I assume these are indeed scheduled charter-flights, (supposed to be) paid fully by Thomas Cook. This contrary to the seats filled by TC-tourists on "regular" SN-flights, even to leisure-destinations.
What the internal difference is between flights to Tunisia (like SN388#-flightnumbers) and for instance flights to Marrakesh/Agadir (SN384# or SN385#-flight numbers), or how to tell the difference between scheduled charters or regular flights is unknown to me.
I was wondering the same exact thing, but indeed, you can't book Tunisia bound flights on SN's website.

:arrow: Now let's be honest, this will be real PITA for SN. When you know that a Greek island bound flight was filled by up to 80% of T.C.B clients / seats allotments... I think they will really need to reshuffle and reshape their future route network. Or even to get rid of one or two A320. Since they have a permanent lack of crew issue, it can't necessarily be wrong. They need to focus on profitable business / niche market (like Yerevan, Tel-Aviv, .... ).
It will depend on what's going to happen to Thomas Cook Belgium (and Neckermann etc): if they're taken over by TUI for instance, those passengers will be put on TUI planes. But when there's some kind of continuation (for instance under the German umbrella), the TC-SN deal might continue.

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by TLspotting » 24 Sep 2019, 15:26

Neckermann Polska cancels flights tomorrow.
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Passenger
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 24 Sep 2019, 15:31

PttU wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 11:32
It will depend on what's going to happen to Thomas Cook Belgium (and Neckermann etc): if they're taken over by TUI for instance, those passengers will be put on TUI planes. But when there's some kind of continuation (for instance under the German umbrella), the TC-SN deal might continue.
TUI: the Belgian Competition Authority and/or the Competition Department from the European Union will most probably reject such takeover. Reason: too much market share = lack of competition will cause that prices will go up too much. Maybe the Authority (BE or EU) will allow a partly takeover, example only Neckermann.

TUI won’t be the only bidder. The yet-to-be-appointed liquidators (curatoren) of the bankruptcy of THCB will get an offer from Triton (Sunweb & Corendon) who has an opportunity here to become number two in both BE and NL.

But then: I can't imagine that Thomas Cook mainland and Thomas Cook UK will have different ownership (with different marketing and company stategy). Fosun, after all? Depends if they will recover (morally) from their hangover, caused by Thomas Cook UK.

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luchtzak
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by luchtzak » 24 Sep 2019, 16:34

At 16:00. a special works council was started at Thomas Cook Belgium, where the staff will also be informed of the current situation.

Passenger
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 24 Sep 2019, 16:45

luchtzak wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 16:34
At 16:00. a special works council was started at Thomas Cook Belgium, where the staff will also be informed of the current situation.
There is just one possibility left.
Extremely terrible news for all involved - many I know personally.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Yuqu12 » 24 Sep 2019, 16:48

According to VrtNWS, Thomas Cook Belgium asked the trade court in Ghent to give protection against its claimants.

Article in Dutch, although title is misleading: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/09/24 ... ement-aan/

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 24 Sep 2019, 16:57

Yuqu12 wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 16:48
According to VrtNWS, Thomas Cook Belgium asked the trade court in Ghent to give protection against its claimants.

Article in Dutch, although title is misleading: https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2019/09/24 ... ement-aan/
The trade court cannot agree with that - unless for very short period of time (one week or so). The request for protection must be accompagnied with a business recovery plan, backed by new funds.

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 24 Sep 2019, 17:16

THCB: apparently bankruptcy for some entities, and WCO (protection against debtors) for the main Belgian company.

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sn26567
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by sn26567 » 24 Sep 2019, 17:25

Passenger wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 17:16
THCB: apparently bankruptcy for some entities, and WCO .
Thomas Cook Belgium partly continues activities. Two entities (accounting together for around 75 employees) are being discontinued, but there is still hope for most of the 600 employees. Travel agencies, among others, continue under protection against creditors.

Meanwhile, Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia resumes flights.

Note for Eurowings customers who have booked a package holiday with Thomas Cook: EW will fly its customers affected by the current situation back to Germany, Austria and Switzerland on 24 and 25 September from their respective destinations.
André
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Bralo20
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Bralo20 » 24 Sep 2019, 18:03

Passenger wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 17:16
THCB: apparently bankruptcy for some entities, and WCO (protection against debtors) for the main Belgian company.
So, I guess that means that they paid out some (or all) of the available funds in the Belgian companies already to TC UK in the past year... If you add those funds to the already paid out 500+ million from Belgian companies alone TC UK must have been bleeding cash quite an high rate. I doubt only the Belgian companies were the sole ones profitable in the group so TC UK probably got funds out of other foreign entities also... On the other hand, looking at the balances it seems that the Belgian entities were more than reasonably profitable which could increase their chances for a continuance, either via a EU mainland construction or a take-over by another group.

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by sn26567 » 24 Sep 2019, 18:28

Lessor Avation (Singapore) repossesses two A321s on lease to Thomas Cook (UK), and remarket the aircraft.
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 24 Sep 2019, 19:34

Technical issue for a U.K. rescue flight (Atlas Air 747-400) Manchester-Orlando:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4cd36693&opt=0

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sn26567
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by sn26567 » 24 Sep 2019, 20:57

Condor continues operations with the pledge of a bridge loan from the Federal government. The company is healthy, but had to surrender its cash flow to the parent company Thomas Cook plc.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/thom ... perations/
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by TLspotting » 24 Sep 2019, 21:10

Condor has a lot of chance.
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Conti764
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Conti764 » 25 Sep 2019, 00:30

Bralo20 wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 18:03
Passenger wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 17:16
THCB: apparently bankruptcy for some entities, and WCO (protection against debtors) for the main Belgian company.
So, I guess that means that they paid out some (or all) of the available funds in the Belgian companies already to TC UK in the past year... If you add those funds to the already paid out 500+ million from Belgian companies alone TC UK must have been bleeding cash quite an high rate. I doubt only the Belgian companies were the sole ones profitable in the group so TC UK probably got funds out of other foreign entities also... On the other hand, looking at the balances it seems that the Belgian entities were more than reasonably profitable which could increase their chances for a continuance, either via a EU mainland construction or a take-over by another group.
If all the figures mentioned in this thread are right, I can imagine saving the Belgian branch of TC is not a matter of 'if' but rather 'when'.

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by sn26567 » 25 Sep 2019, 09:35

sn26567 wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 20:57
Condor continues operations with the pledge of a bridge loan from the Federal government. The company is healthy, but had to surrender its cash flow to the parent company Thomas Cook plc.

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/thom ... perations/
If Condor has been sending all its profits to the parent company in the UK, I can imagine that the same happened for the Belgian branch. Which explains the half billion euros that passenger mentioned earlier.
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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by Passenger » 25 Sep 2019, 11:59

Bralo20 wrote:
24 Sep 2019, 10:52
So, besides the above mentioned Thomas Cook branches it seems the goose with the golden eggs in Belgium is a holding company called Thomas Cook Financial Services Belgium NV which generated a net profit of over 10 million EUR last financial year and is currently sitting on 145 million EUR in unused profits...
Indeed. But the owner of Thomas Cook Financial Services Belgium nv/sa is written on page 10/25 of their latest annual account:

99,9% Thomas Cook Group UK, Westpoint Peterborough Business Park, Lynch Wood, PE2 6FZ Peterborough, U.K.:
0,01% Blue Sea Overseas Investments Limited, Westpoint Peterborough Business Park, Lynch Wood, PE2 6FZ Peterborough, U.K.

Same ownership (99,99%) applies for Thomas Cook Belgium. There are many press reports that Thomas Cook Belgium is owned by "the German branch of Thomas Cook". Not true. THC Belgium indeed works more closely with THC Germany then with THC U.K., but that is/was only commercially-wise (like hotel contracts & allotments on Condor). Accountancy-wise, it is/was U.K.


.

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Re: Thomas Cook ceases trading; UK CAA launches giant programme to fly its customers home

Post by sn26567 » 25 Sep 2019, 12:23

Air Transat is “confident” the seven A321s from Thomas Cook (UK) will still come through, despite the Group company going bust. Air Transat is making contingency plans.

TUI is remaining cautious about a possible boost from the demise of Thomas Cook (UK) and said its business model was proving “resilient” despite a “challenging market”.
André
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