Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 26 Aug 2019, 21:51

RoMax wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:19
Ansett wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 18:35
According to CS you have to make a profit first before you are entitled to new investments. Remember ?
So far for the level playing field and for those who still believe what the guy says.
Just a few remarks:
- These A333's are (profitably) operated by SN under ACMI and contribute to a future more efficient A330 fleet management also for SN itself (yes this period of phasing in and out and cabin retrofits it's bad, any margin is gone in a split second...but once all 'new' A333's are in the fleet with new cabin, the fleet will be much more robust than the past years, and yes those 4 A333's in DUS contribute to that)
- The latest A333's for EW are not expansion, but replacements for the terribly inefficient A340's
- It's not because it was communicated that EW would stop long haul itself, that everything is dropped from one moment to the other. SN will continue to operate in DUS and SunExpress continues to operate in FRA and MUC (those are 100% under commercial control (sales, network and schedule planning, revenue management, etc) of LH itself and even the product is adapted to be more in line, like adding C class to the A332's and complimentary catering for all pax, all ground ops are LH, etc). It's just a question what they'll do with the EW brand on long haul and who takes the commercial control in DUS, like LH in FRA/MUC.
- The ex-LH A333's going to DUS are older than the 7 that SN is getting in BRU (+SFX which is of the same generation)
- These A333's keep the LH interior and except some changes in configuration and 'trim and finishes' the full cabin is hardly getting any investment
- Meanwhile SN is investing 10mio EUR in each 'new' A333 to fully renew the interior (seats, bulkheads, galleys, lighting, toilets,... everything is new or fully refurbished). It's the first time ever that SN does this.
- The combined investment of acquiring those 2nd hand 7 A333's (all are purchased by the group) + the cabin investment, is the biggest ever for SN and would have never been possible without LH.

It might be hard for some to accept that SN is not living the Swiss dream and it's a fact that a huge amount of time and money has been lost on the EW integration (even though some of the work that has been done to create a new company behind the scenes is not fully lost or useless now either), but the calimero behavior of many is a pity. It's not with such behavior that you achieve things and actually change anything to the situation.
I love your intervention, he is well informed and well documented but you can't deny the problem with the long haul fleet for years now !!!
Last edited by lumumba on 26 Aug 2019, 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Conti764
Posts: 1597
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 » 26 Aug 2019, 22:18

RoMax wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:19
Ansett wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 18:35
According to CS you have to make a profit first before you are entitled to new investments. Remember ?
So far for the level playing field and for those who still believe what the guy says.
Just a few remarks:
- These A333's are (profitably) operated by SN under ACMI and contribute to a future more efficient A330 fleet management also for SN itself (yes this period of phasing in and out and cabin retrofits it's bad, any margin is gone in a split second...but once all 'new' A333's are in the fleet with new cabin, the fleet will be much more robust than the past years, and yes those 4 A333's in DUS contribute to that)
- The latest A333's for EW are not expansion, but replacements for the terribly inefficient A340's
- It's not because it was communicated that EW would stop long haul itself, that everything is dropped from one moment to the other. SN will continue to operate in DUS and SunExpress continues to operate in FRA and MUC (those are 100% under commercial control (sales, network and schedule planning, revenue management, etc) of LH itself and even the product is adapted to be more in line, like adding C class to the A332's and complimentary catering for all pax, all ground ops are LH, etc). It's just a question what they'll do with the EW brand on long haul and who takes the commercial control in DUS, like LH in FRA/MUC.
- The ex-LH A333's going to DUS are older than the 7 that SN is getting in BRU (+SFX which is of the same generation)
- These A333's keep the LH interior and except some changes in configuration and 'trim and finishes' the full cabin is hardly getting any investment
- Meanwhile SN is investing 10mio EUR in each 'new' A333 to fully renew the interior (seats, bulkheads, galleys, lighting, toilets,... everything is new or fully refurbished). It's the first time ever that SN does this.
- The combined investment of acquiring those 2nd hand 7 A333's (all are purchased by the group) + the cabin investment, is the biggest ever for SN and would have never been possible without LH.

It might be hard for some to accept that SN is not living the Swiss dream and it's a fact that a huge amount of time and money has been lost on the EW integration (even though some of the work that has been done to create a new company behind the scenes is not fully lost or useless now either), but the calimero behavior of many is a pity. It's not with such behavior that you achieve things and actually change anything to the situation.
All nice but fact remains that LH's mantra 'first make money before you get money' is foolish. All in all great additions these younger A333's, but SN isn't expanding while others are and not the least to where SN always made money: Africa.

BRU and SN are at a standstill, and one of the main reasons is the uncertainty about SN, its future and its role within Star Alliance.

C96C
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by C96C » 27 Aug 2019, 10:26

OO-SFP has a hybrid (old)LH/EW-livery, stickered?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9419203

Image

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by b.lufthansa » 27 Aug 2019, 11:13

C96C wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:26
OO-SFP has a hybrid (old)LH/EW-livery, stickered?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9419203
It's the new Lufthansa Group Euro White livery, a new concept André wrote about. Heavily contested by some members: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/a-ne ... -airlines/

C96C
Posts: 78
Joined: 03 Apr 2017, 11:51

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by C96C » 27 Aug 2019, 11:38

b.lufthansa wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 11:13
C96C wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:26
OO-SFP has a hybrid (old)LH/EW-livery, stickered?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9419203
It's the new Lufthansa Group Euro White livery, a new concept André wrote about. Heavily contested by some members: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/a-ne ... -airlines/
I think it's not, it still has the grey belly and engines from the old LH-livery.
The current EW-livery, with white engines, already meets the LHG-euro white livery requirements (just like the recent new LH & OS-liveries).
Last edited by C96C on 27 Aug 2019, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 » 27 Aug 2019, 14:56

It might be a quick and cheap temporary job in order not to send Eurowings' finances deeper in the red!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 » 27 Aug 2019, 15:35

sn26567 wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 14:56
It might be a quick and cheap temporary job in order not to send Eurowings' finances deeper in the red!
Isn't SN supposed to pay new paint if the plane is officialy theirs?

DeltaWiskey
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Joined: 13 Oct 2010, 18:33

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DeltaWiskey » 27 Aug 2019, 18:55

Yes, SN pays for the paint, but all one-time costs are charged back to EW. So, EW effectively pays for it. I think it is indeed a "quick and easy" paint.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 » 27 Aug 2019, 22:28

DeltaWiskey wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 18:55
Yes, SN pays for the paint, but all one-time costs are charged back to EW. So, EW effectively pays for it. I think it is indeed a "quick and easy" paint.
I assumed EW would pay for the paint through the leasing so no direct big costs for them... ;)

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DannyVDB » 28 Aug 2019, 07:42

OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 28 Aug 2019, 08:41

DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny

Indeed also flightstats.com mentions OO-SFG for the SN277 service to Accra today.

Departure delayed by 3 hours to 13:30.

H.A.

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by theeuropean » 28 Aug 2019, 18:12

I'm not trying to give SN a free ride here - but another issue of delays is that of ATC, especially in Central Europe. Hungary has also major staff shortages, also in the Balkans and Greece. The CEO of Aegean also apologized to the customers in a personalized email. I have had this happen to me 2 times this summer while flying once with Wizzair and once with Aegean/Olympic.

A321Lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by A321Lufthansa » 30 Aug 2019, 13:23

DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny
Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?

airbuske
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by airbuske » 30 Aug 2019, 21:34

A321Lufthansa wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 13:23
DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny
Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?
OO-SFB ;)
Best regards,

Airbuske

A321Lufthansa
Posts: 13
Joined: 20 Jun 2019, 00:24

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by A321Lufthansa » 30 Aug 2019, 22:33

airbuske wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 21:34
A321Lufthansa wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 13:23
DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny
Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?
OO-SFB ;)
Well, it is a logical decision as it is the only one that is not standardized to SN cabin standards. When is it to set off for the reconfiguration?

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sounilr21
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sounilr21 » 03 Sep 2019, 12:55

Great... OO-SFZ is in the air, on flight SN371. I'm happy to see SFZ in the air.

SFB is inflight to Amman. So, i have a little question : Will the SFB got a "new" outside SN livery (eurowohite) or just a cabin fit ?

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 03 Sep 2019, 12:58

airbuske wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 21:34
A321Lufthansa wrote:
30 Aug 2019, 13:23
DannyVDB wrote:
28 Aug 2019, 07:42
OO-SFG seems to come back to BRU today ...

It is already planned to fly to Accra today but that seems a bit optimistic to me ...

See: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/oo-sfg

Which bird will be next to get the new interior?

Cheers
Danny
Which one is the next? SFC, SFF or SFX?
OO-SFB ;)

Yep, she is on her way to Amman this morning.
OO-SFB out to AMM.png

H.A.

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1068
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 03 Sep 2019, 13:00

Sorry double post.
Sounilr21 was faster ;)

H.A.

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sounilr21
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sounilr21 » 03 Sep 2019, 13:02

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 13:00
Sorry double post.
Sounilr21 was faster ;)

H.A.
Hahahaha nice. Just complimentary with your picture ;-)

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 » 03 Sep 2019, 15:32

sounilr21 wrote:
03 Sep 2019, 12:55
Will the SFB got a "new" outside SN livery (eurowohite) or just a cabin fit ?
The Eurowings livery is quite fresh. I doubt it will be removed (remember: "Savings"!). And if it is changed, it will probably be a basic Eurowhite with minimal Brussels Airlines features: the titles and the tail. Reboot = savings!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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