Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 09 Aug 2019, 22:46

Atlantis wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 22:03
There was indeed again a huge fueling problem this evening at Schiphol. It was not possible to fuel any plane.

Also this time was a software problem the issue. The second fuel problem in three weeks time.

This can happen everywhere as everything goes automated. Brussels Airport is the only airport who apologised towards the pax by giving twice a sorry voucher.
Automation is indeed the direct way to trouble...

The "Sorry"voucher is a good beginning. Recognize the problem first, say sorry, and start solving it.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 10 Aug 2019, 13:44

Handling agents at Brussels Airport: can the airport create a turnaround?

During the last years, there have a number of strikes and disruptions at the two handling agents Swissport (16M pax) and Aviapartner (9,5M pax). And every time, the complaints are about the same: not enough staff, too much workload, not enough equipment, too old equipment. To end the strike, board and/or management allways promise the same: we will engage more staff, we will introduce new bonuses, we will buy new equipment. However, the financial results from both Swissport BRU and Aviapartner BRU are dramatic: the annual accounts from both show ongoing losses, in millions. Activities at BRU are indeed supported by their groups’ better performances in OST, CRL, LGG or by abroad activities. So they don't have much budget for investments at BRU, and I assume the banks are not willing to provide loans easily.

Arno Colla, a student (Master) Business Engineering at University Antwerp, has done research about these problems for his thesis “Analyse van de passagiersafhandeling op de Belgische luchthavens” (Analysis of passenger handling at Belgian airports). Summary: see link down below to an article in Trends.

Arno Colla: “…there should be more collaboration between handling agents, the airport, the airlines and the trade unions... The airport could invest in equipment, and then rent it to the handling agents via a pool system, and at decent prices. They have done this already for shuttle buses and de-icing equipment... Or perhaps Swissport and Aviapartner could buy some equipment together?...”

Another possibility to reduce costs, Colla says, is grouping the gates per handling company.

Today, the handling fees are too low, Arno Colla finally states.

Maybe the airport should intervene indeed? After all, it is their clients (airlines and passengers) who suffer whenever there is a strike. And it is the airport who is blamed when passengers have to wait very long for their luggage.

- - -

Source:
https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 85443.html
and
https://be.linkedin.com/in/arno-colla-bb2791174

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak » 12 Aug 2019, 10:35

And in Tel Aviv:
.

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by TLspotting » 12 Aug 2019, 16:24

TUI fly announced to have opened its renewed and now larger TUI desk at Hall 2.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 12 Aug 2019, 16:33

Tui indeed opened since last Friday 9th August their huge Tui desk in the Leisure Terminal.

This one, 84 square meter, is much bigger than the previous one, around 54 Square meter before the attacks.

This to facilitate also customers in case that something is happening with flights.

This is an important step to use the Leisure Terminal again as where is was build for and it will make also the main terminal less crowded

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 13 Aug 2019, 13:59

Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:42

Eindhoven, luggage belt out of service, today (8th August):
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/problemen-m ... ~ac4e90f9/
EIN +1: luggage belt was out of service for a few hours this morning (13th August).
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/storing-bag ... ~ae61372f/

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak » 13 Aug 2019, 14:35

Passenger wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 13:59
Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:42

Eindhoven, luggage belt out of service, today (8th August):
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/problemen-m ... ~ac4e90f9/
EIN +1: luggage belt was out of service for a few hours this morning (13th August).
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/storing-bag ... ~ae61372f/
English: https://www.aviation24.be/airports/eind ... o-operate/

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Homo Aeroportus » 13 Aug 2019, 14:58

Maybe time to start a new topic on BHS, Fuel and other disruptions around the world ...

:mrgreen:

H.A.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 13 Aug 2019, 21:37

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 14:58
Maybe time to start a new topic on BHS, Fuel and other disruptions around the world ...
I hope that everyone now accepts that shit happens at every airport in the world, and not in Brussels only.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 13 Aug 2019, 22:06

Yes of course. As I read comments here, it is the frequency of problems with the Zaventem luggage handling system that some find unbearable. Might talk of quick-shits - if such base vocabulary may be excused for this once ;)

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Stij » 14 Aug 2019, 08:54

Passenger wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 21:37
I hope that everyone now accepts that shit happens at every airport in the world, and not in Brussels only.
You gotta be kidding me...

That wasn't just accepted a zillion posts ago, nobody ever wrote nothing could go wrong!!! However, what some don't accept as normal is that a system went down 4 times in a short period and that you and some others consider this perfectly normal and acceptable.

But I believe most airports are on different page as you...

Brussels Airport themselves didn't consider it normal, otherwise they wouldn't have offered compensations.

Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact. https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/229735 ... nemen.html.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.

Cheers,

Stij

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 14 Aug 2019, 10:06

Stij wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 08:54
Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.
Seriously? "The AMS CEO apologized"?? Have you listened to the interview? Apart from saying “we feel embarrassed”, he did not apologized to the stranded travellers and/or to the affected airlines. Just a little search on “Benschop” on Twitter says what the Dutch tv viewers think about his performance on tv: it was a shame, rubbish, nonsense, ridiculous.

Some of those tweets are anonymous, but most aren't. Like the tweets from Jan Leune, a retired chief political editor:
De eerste crisis duurde 9 uur. Pas na weken laat #Benschop zich daarover uit zonder iets te zeggen over zijn afwezigheid. Uit niets blijkt een sturende rol tijdens of na de crises.

Luisterde met stijgende verbazing naar Schipholtopman Benschop die zalvend en met meel in de mond feitelijk niets zei over falend management van zijn bedrijf tijdens jongste crises. Waar was hij en wat deed hij concreet beide keren? Van geen waarde op kritiek momenten. Nonvaleur
.
https://twitter.com/search?q=benschop&src=typd

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 14 Aug 2019, 18:27

I already said that I am not a big fan of Schiphol, but that the airport is basically OK.
Spokespersons for any "organisation/company" are trained, when there is a (major) problem to communicate, but also to practically say nothing with substance in it. It reminds me of a joke on Manuel Barroso, the former EU Commssion President of whom it was said that he was a person who managed to say nothing in four different languages.

Now more seriously, it's the frequency of the luggage belts problems at BRU which is upsetting and in addition what is upsetting me, too, is that apparently it is going to take two years to replace the system (if this info mentioned in an eralier post is correct).

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 15 Aug 2019, 13:47

Passenger wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 13:44
Handling agents at Brussels Airport: can the airport create a turnaround?

During the last years, there have a number of strikes and disruptions at the two handling agents Swissport (16M pax) and Aviapartner (9,5M pax). And every time, the complaints are about the same: not enough staff, too much workload, not enough equipment, too old equipment. To end the strike, board and/or management allways promise the same: we will engage more staff, we will introduce new bonuses, we will buy new equipment. However, the financial results from both Swissport BRU and Aviapartner BRU are dramatic: the annual accounts from both show ongoing losses, in millions. Activities at BRU are indeed supported by their groups’ better performances in OST, CRL, LGG or by abroad activities. So they don't have much budget for investments at BRU, and I assume the banks are not willing to provide loans easily.

Arno Colla, a student (Master) Business Engineering at University Antwerp, has done research about these problems for his thesis “Analyse van de passagiersafhandeling op de Belgische luchthavens” (Analysis of passenger handling at Belgian airports). Summary: see link down below to an article in Trends. Arno Colla: “…there should be more collaboration between handling agents, the airport, the airlines and the trade unions... The airport could invest in equipment, and then rent it to the handling agents via a pool system, and at decent prices. They have done this already for shuttle buses and de-icing equipment... Or perhaps Swissport and Aviapartner could buy some equipment together?...”
Another possibility to reduce costs, Colla says, is grouping the gates per handling company. Today, the handling fees are too low, Arno Colla finally states.

Maybe the airport should intervene indeed? After all, it is their clients (airlines and passengers) who suffer whenever there is a strike. And it is the airport who is blamed when passengers have to wait very long for their luggage.

Source:
https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 85443.html
and
https://be.linkedin.com/in/arno-colla-bb2791174
Bad figures for BookYear 2018 too, for both handlers:
https://www.hln.be/geld/economie/passag ... ~a9f53860/

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 15 Aug 2019, 14:43

Passenger wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 10:06
Stij wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 08:54
Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.
Seriously? "The AMS CEO apologized"?? Have you listened to the interview? Apart from saying “we feel embarrassed”, he did not apologized to the stranded travellers and/or to the affected airlines. Just a little search on “Benschop” on Twitter says what the Dutch tv viewers think about his performance on tv: it was a shame, rubbish, nonsense, ridiculous.

Some of those tweets are anonymous, but most aren't. Like the tweets from Jan Leune, a retired chief political editor:
De eerste crisis duurde 9 uur. Pas na weken laat #Benschop zich daarover uit zonder iets te zeggen over zijn afwezigheid. Uit niets blijkt een sturende rol tijdens of na de crises.

Luisterde met stijgende verbazing naar Schipholtopman Benschop die zalvend en met meel in de mond feitelijk niets zei over falend management van zijn bedrijf tijdens jongste crises. Waar was hij en wat deed hij concreet beide keren? Van geen waarde op kritiek momenten. Nonvaleur
.
https://twitter.com/search?q=benschop&src=typd
I do not know if Scheemaecker of Feist have been on national TV to apologize for or explain about the the long blacklist of problems at BRU.
The Schiphol CEO did.
He got inviewed by one of the best journalists of the NOS.
Interview was in direct "Dutch" style. Yes, he was a bit evasive.
He also said some interesting things: it is not just a technical issue, with immense consequences .
It is also a 'cultural' problem. Why there was no plan B, why where essential spare parts not available, has the maintebance be done regularly, ???
Is the organization not too complacent ??

Shit happens and will always happen.
Organizations only want to grow, but there is a limit to everything. And if the limit is "the sky", you can be sure that the limit will never be reached and the organization will suffer. Operational quality or operational excellence is a BUZZ word. When organizations start this kind of quality programms, the Management and the levels below quickly think; that's it, we are good.
AMS has reached its limits and so has BRU. (only, AMS is 3 times bigger..).
AMS however will solve the problem because the Dutch do not apply Ostrich policy , as we do here too often.
why is the Belgian railway system, the highway system, the Brussels Tunnels system,BRU, ... so much behind ?? Why do incidents and accidents happen a lot more in B than in NL ??

Lack of competent leadership is a main reason. Self-satisfaction, too high salaries, bonus-culture..
When the ' Top' is like that, all lower levels act in a similar way .

No competition of the Schiphol distributor of kerosine AFS (same in BRU), oligopoly-position of AMS, BRU,.. leads to complacency.

The incidents that happen now are avoidable. (belts, kerosine,..). Even the strikes are avoidable.
But they will continue to happen as the issues are not dealt with properly.
Shareholders only care about quick gains. No long term.

people can accept that things go wrong, for a hour or so.
But again, even in the case of AMS, the biggest frustration is the lack of information.
crises-management is apparently not in the management books anymore.
There are no plans to care about the customer, the PAX.
Even not enough bottles of water, on a hot summer day !!!

Shame, shame..

Like Mr. Winter, former director of AFS (AMS Kerosine distributor) for 24 years said in the interview :
If you have a network of pipes of 30km, you should have some by-passes, so you can isolate the problem to one part of the airport. And the fact that it took so many hours (also with the Belt at BRU), and it happened again and again...
Pure scandal.

If there is an interview with Scheemaker or Feist about the BRU problems, I will be happy to know where to find it.

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 15 Aug 2019, 23:20

I agree with practically everything you say.
However, the Dutch railway system is not much better than the Belgian. Only, the Dutch have no strong "strike" culture. So, it all seems to be better, when it isn't always.

As to Schiphol, the Dutch and especially KLM don't want to admit that AMS is FULL ! Why cannot they be happy with what they've got as a small country ? A sound airline with good profits.

I won't say that BRU is already full. The problem, imho, is that not one single politician dares to put a sound and final stop to the "overfly" "problem".

As to the ground handling at BRU, someone here will know when the "licences" will be up for a new call of tenders. I'm not a lawyer, so I am wondering if a new call for tenders may demand that the offers will not lead to a deficit situation for the bidders and that the call fixes a minimum number of bagage handlers per... I don' know what... just thinking of what would be possible to avoid that the same scenario repeats itself under new "licences" to be granted.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 15 Aug 2019, 23:30

I'm not a lawyer, so I am wondering if a new call for tenders may demand that the offers will not lead to a deficit situation for the bidders
I am not a lawyer either, but (as I pointed out before) I am quite sure Belgian law forbids trading at a loss anyway. So that there needn't even be such a clause. It is not a surprise to me that politicians don't act, they're a bunch of cowards anyway, here and almost everywhere; but I am much disappointed that no legal action is undertaken.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 15 Aug 2019, 23:39

Ansett wrote:
15 Aug 2019, 23:20

As to the ground handling at BRU, someone here will know when the "licences" will be up for a new call of tenders. I'm not a lawyer, so I am wondering if a new call for tenders may demand that the offers will not lead to a deficit situation for the bidders and that the call fixes a minimum number of bagage handlers per... I don' know what... just thinking of what would be possible to avoid that the same scenario repeats itself under new "licences" to be granted.
Hi Ansett,

For the new licences you have to wait for the next 6 years.
In 2017, BRU started the tenders for the new licences. In 2018 the companies who took park in it and who passed the selection of many criteria received the new licence for the next 7 years. It started as from 28 October 2018.
As by that time to start the tender, BRU didn't had more than 25 million pax a year, there was only a tender for two baggage handling and two for passenger aircraft handling.
Only for cargo there were 3 tenders and Dnata became a new player in this cargo handling.

As BRU has now more than 25 million pax a year and if it is still the case as from the year that new tenders will be released, there will be a tender for 3 baggage handling and 3 for passenger aircraft handling.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 15 Aug 2019, 23:42

Thanks for info, @Atlantis!

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 25 Aug 2019, 12:45

Conti764 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 10:10
Atlantis wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 21:44
The next point, comes always back, is the direct connection of the E40 from Leuven to BRU.
Working on the airport, I very much welcome the idea. But is there already any idea on how it would run? Because between the airport and the E40 there is some pretty densely populated area.

About A-pier West, how certain is the delay mentioned earlier in this thread? Especially in the morning the airport is pretty much saturated. I've even seen a lot of SN-tails pretty far away on remote stands. A-pier West could relieve the pressure by moving SN Africa ops to free up space at the current T-gates which could be used as regular A-gates troughout the day.

And it becomes pretty clear the current terminal can hardly cope with the morning rush. It sometimes becomes overcrowded. T2 should really be in the plans to improve the passenger experience at BRU, even if it would be empty in the afternoon.
According to the current plans, no place for T2. Everything will be in the New Terminal. The current one and the Leisure terminal. As of course you can't close the current ones and building a new one, everything will be in phases, but the concept will be completely new and according to the new standards, developments, safety, etc. As for now, there will be again a much closer drop off zone to the terminal with much bigger space than before the attacs, so good news I would say.

One the place where the big DHL building was, even further and longer than this, a new area will be constructed. This will be the new intermodal hub for transport, a new hangar for Ground services equipment, new hotel (lets say replacing of the current one) and extra parking for passengers and staff.

At the same time also the road access to the airport will be expanded, redeveloped with new security checkpoints.

This all in the course of 2 years

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