Air Belgium in 2019

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flightlover
Posts: 663
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 22:18
TLspotting wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 14:14
"...the CEO says that AB is the only one who is allowed to talk about their plans and AB wasn't even contacted for the article on L'Echo..."

"...Air Belgium won't make any comment about this article. Info given are the only responsability of the source (SOGEPA), which is one of the shareholders like others..."
Well, this is a very strange communication by the CEO about a major investor like Sogepa: "you have to shut up". Wonder what happened during their last AGM (27th May)...
They where, most likely, talking strategy and other stuff that is not supposed to be thrown on the streets. As they are no public trading company they should be able to do this without consequences, but once in a while...

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting »

I have to say that AB answers, I don't understand. It is not clear what's true or what's false, because I thought a lot of what you all have answered.
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Desert Rat
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Joined: 08 May 2007, 09:38

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Desert Rat »

TLspotting wrote:
20 Jul 2019, 11:28
I have to say that AB answers, I don't understand. It is not clear what's true or what's false, because I thought a lot of what you all have answered.
Well, you might not be their first priority in terms of answering questions, that make sense to me.
At the end of the day, their business is not yours, and they run the show the way they want.
Including some secrecy on their strategic target, whether you like it or not.....is not relevant.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Totally agree, @Desert Rat! Actually I tried to say something similar a few replies earlier.

convair
Posts: 1812
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by convair »

Passenger wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 22:18
TLspotting wrote:
19 Jul 2019, 14:14
"...the CEO says that AB is the only one who is allowed to talk about their plans and AB wasn't even contacted for the article on L'Echo..."

"...Air Belgium won't make any comment about this article. Info given are the only responsability of the source (SOGEPA), which is one of the shareholders like others..."
Well, this is a very strange communication by the CEO about a major investor like Sogepa: "you have to shut up". Wonder what happened during their last AGM (27th May)...
When you become a shareholder, you have to adhere to certain rules, among others confidentiality. A shareholder is normally not entitled to speak for the company. Sogepa, like other government-owned/controlled companies is headed by political people who often cannot refrain from talking too much. Hence, "you have to shut up" from Terzakis is fully justified.
Besides, any view expressed here about future flights by AB to Kinshasa is pure speculation.

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Passenger »

"Kinshasa" is not something that happened out of the blue. It was discussed during their last AGM – clear proof is the statement from shareholder Sogepa to L’Echo. Is the Board (Sogepa) allowed to reveal such scoop, or is it a privilege for Management? That’s not relevant. What matters, is that such a wild thing is accepted as a possible new route. "Kinshasa" should have been waived immediately: 1) we can’t get traffic rights, 2) we can’t rely on CRL-FIH-CRL pax only, so we need local represention. But we can't afford an own office there, so we need an expensive local GSA, 3) our competition offers French pax a flight CDG-BRU-CDG, but we can’t offer that, 4) Kinshasa is a difficult and expensive stay for crew…

I wonder on what basis they have choosen Guadeloupe/Martinique. Promotion-effort promises from the Tourism Board during a scouting trip? Seriously: it's not a fly-and-stay or a fly-and-drive destination, and there is no VFR traffic: the solid base for flights operated out of an offline airport. On top, 32% of the arrivals there is cruise travel. Hence a website and a Facebook page is far too little to get a market share there.

Am I really the only one here to doubt Guadeloupe/Martinique?

Poiu
Posts: 843
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Poiu »

Passenger wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 19:08
What matters, is that such a wild thing is accepted as a possible new route. "Kinshasa" should have been waived immediately: 1) we can’t get traffic rights, 2) we can’t rely on CRL-FIH-CRL pax only, so we need local represention. But we can't afford an own office there, so we need an expensive local GSA, 3) our competition offers French pax a flight CDG-BRU-CDG, but we can’t offer that, 4) Kinshasa is a difficult and expensive stay for crew…
The biggest hurdle is that FIH is the flagship route of SN, that is why AB denies the plans.
Ask Sobelair and TUI what happened when they announced flights to the DRC a couple of years ago..
The SN lobbyists, almost certainly, have been called back from holidays to prevent AB operating a route between CRL and FIH.
The ex CDG pax will take the bus to CRL, many of them already take the bus from Brussels to CDG and fly back because tickets are cheaper from CDG.
Sell tickets 25€ cheaper from CRL than BRU, offer a generous baggage allowance and the flight will be successful!

convair
Posts: 1812
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by convair »

Passenger wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 19:08
"Kinshasa" is not something that happened out of the blue. It was discussed during their last AGM – clear proof is the statement from shareholder Sogepa to L’Echo. Is the Board (Sogepa) allowed to reveal such scoop, or is it a privilege for Management? That’s not relevant. What matters, is that such a wild thing is accepted as a possible new route. "Kinshasa" should have been waived immediately: 1) we can’t get traffic rights, 2) we can’t rely on CRL-FIH-CRL pax only, so we need local represention. But we can't afford an own office there, so we need an expensive local GSA, 3) our competition offers French pax a flight CDG-BRU-CDG, but we can’t offer that, 4) Kinshasa is a difficult and expensive stay for crew…

I wonder on what basis they have choosen Guadeloupe/Martinique. Promotion-effort promises from the Tourism Board during a scouting trip? Seriously: it's not a fly-and-stay or a fly-and-drive destination, and there is no VFR traffic: the solid base for flights operated out of an offline airport. On top, 32% of the arrivals there is cruise travel. Hence a website and a Facebook page is far too little to get a market share there.

Am I really the only one here to doubt Guadeloupe/Martinique?
I fully agree with you on the Kinshasa matter. Over the years, SN has build a strong customer base there and it's certainly not an easy nor cheap destination to maintain.

Very sceptical about Guad./Mart. as well, but let's give them a chance!
Poiu wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 19:55
Sell tickets 25€ cheaper from CRL than BRU, offer a generous baggage allowance and the flight will be successful!
They already have a more than generous bagage allowance and SN can make their tickets a bit cheaper for a while if needed in order to undermine AB's efforts. And what about the US and other connecting pax? What about traffic rights? If confirmed, It's sad to see them even considering such a silly idea.

PttU
Posts: 379
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 15:07

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by PttU »

What about cargo? I don't know whether FIH is a route where a lot of cargo goes along too, bringing some revenue for SN? If a route isn't profitable with pax alone, a nice cargo deal might tip the balance?

flightlover
Posts: 663
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by flightlover »

PttU wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 23:36
What about cargo? I don't know whether FIH is a route where a lot of cargo goes along too, bringing some revenue for SN? If a route isn't profitable with pax alone, a nice cargo deal might tip the balance?
Did they create cargo capacities in CRL? (handling and whs)

Passenger
Posts: 6828
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Passenger »

Desert Rat wrote:
20 Jul 2019, 18:24
TLspotting wrote:
20 Jul 2019, 11:28
I have to say that AB answers, I don't understand. It is not clear what's true or what's false, because I thought a lot of what you all have answered.
At the end of the day, their business is not yours, and they run the show the way they want. Including some secrecy on their strategic target, whether you like it or not.....is not relevant.
A few million of Belgian taxpayers' money has been invested by Sogepa, SRIW, SFPI and Sparaxis. Plus indirect support by Sowaer - on such level that it will probably never gain a normal return-on-investment. Secrecy about their business strategy is necessary, for sure. But that's no wildcard to remain silent on what they do with that taxpayers' money.

Bracebrace
Posts: 231
Joined: 04 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Bracebrace »

Passenger wrote:
21 Jul 2019, 19:08
1) we can’t get traffic rights
The "we can't" is the exact reason why - IF there are talks - complete confidentiality is necessary. International politics and lobbying is involved.

And clarification about "taxpayers" money is only required in due time, which is hypocrit anyway. It is not "our" money anymore, it is the governments money. That is an AB vs Sogepa discussion, not AB vs taxpayer. If there is profit, the money is returned to the government who gets to spend it in the same unefficient way as it has always done. At least the government invests in aviation - a dying business in Belgium partly because of that same politics attitude.

All considered this "scoop" looked more like a political game to either get media attention for all the bad reasons, or put AB under pressure for all the bad reasons.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting »

It is 13:46, and AB should have already set up their new website...

They were supposed to do it since this morning !
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

nordikcam
Posts: 1067
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by nordikcam »

TLspotting wrote:
22 Jul 2019, 13:46
It is 13:46, and AB should have already set up their new website...

They were supposed to do it since this morning !
They were supposed to fly to China, they are supposed to fly Kinshasa, they are supposed to have a reservation site ... if I want to be sure to fly to Fort de France or Pointe à Pitre, I think I will definitely book Air France

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting »

At 19:45, their new website has opened.

We can finally book from their website.

€336.50 for a return.
Air Belgium to operate charter flights to Greenland ; https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air- ... greenland/

KF3301 CDG - SFJ 06:05 - 07:25 A343 26/07/2019
KF3302 SFJ - CDG 09:25 - 18:15 A343 26/07/2019
KF3301 CDG - SFJ 06:05 - 07:25 A343 11/08/2019
KF3302 SFJ - CDG 09:25 - 18:15 A343 11/08/2019
KF3301 CDG - SFJ 06:40 - 08:00 A343 15/08/2019
KF3302 SFJ - CDG 10:30 - 19:20 A343 15/08/2019
KF3301 CDG - SFJ 06:40 - 08:00 A343 24/08/2019
KF3302 SFJ - CDG 10:10 - 19:00 A343 24/08/2019
KF3302 SFJ - CDG 08:25 - 17:15 A343 28/08/2019
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Shonix
Posts: 79
Joined: 31 Jan 2018, 12:06

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Shonix »

I really wonder how Terzaki still managed to convince investors to believe in his dreams...

I also wonder how long this new chapter of Air Belgium's adventure will last.

Jetter
Posts: 476
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Jetter »

nordikcam wrote:
22 Jul 2019, 14:16
TLspotting wrote:
22 Jul 2019, 13:46
It is 13:46, and AB should have already set up their new website...

They were supposed to do it since this morning !
They were supposed to fly to China, they are supposed to fly Kinshasa, they are supposed to have a reservation site ... if I want to be sure to fly to Fort de France or Pointe à Pitre, I think I will definitely book Air France
I would simply fly away with AB, much cheaper.

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Atlantis
Posts: 4466
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

Last week Thursday there were two A340 of Air Belgium at WAW, Warsaw Chopin Airport Poland, at the same time. One, ABA, was parked on a remote parking. The second one, ABE, was prepared for the flight from WAW to JFK.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting »

Atlantis wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 21:25
Last week Thursday there were two A340 of Air Belgium at WAW, Warsaw Chopin Airport Poland, at the same time. One, ABA, was parked on a remote parking. The second one, ABE, was prepared for the flight from WAW to JFK.
The colored one is ABD. ABA is currently under D-Check at AMM. They are both operating for LOT until late September.
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Atlantis
Posts: 4466
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Atlantis »

TLspotting wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 21:38
Atlantis wrote:
23 Jul 2019, 21:25
Last week Thursday there were two A340 of Air Belgium at WAW, Warsaw Chopin Airport Poland, at the same time. One, ABA, was parked on a remote parking. The second one, ABE, was prepared for the flight from WAW to JFK.
The colored one is ABD. ABA is currently under D-Check at AMM. They are both operating for LOT until late September.
Sorry, was a typo, I use Qwerty

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