Brussels Airlines in 2019

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1614
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 04 Jul 2019, 07:44

FlyingUnicorn wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 22:15
lumumba wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 22:00
This is the press release...

The integration of Eurowings and Brussels Airlines has also been halted and the latter will be more closely aligned with the network airlines.

It's clear to me that there will be no Eurowings in Brussels Brussels Airlines will have to develop a bigger hub to survive I don't see a place for Eurowings.

Or just for the holidays flights and we speak about 3 or 4 planes here not more.

From where do you have this info are you an insider?
The press release is not clear to me. Just guessing
Closer aligned... but not a network carrier. Brussels was not mentioned in the marketcap...
Why no eurowings planes in brussels?! Can work. Like u said. 4 planes.
The marketcap was about the situation then, where SN still was (is?) a part of EW. We'll have to wait for LH's future press releases to see wether SN is to be mentioned with the network carriers or not...

I don't see any logic nor advantages in making SN an 'in between'-airline. It's either in the network carriers, or in Eurowings.

Since LH stated that integration into EW is no loger a goal, I dare to assume SN will indeed be considered a network airline but that they'll have to work for it...

Sabena320
Posts: 544
Joined: 13 Jun 2004, 00:00
Location: Europe
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Sabena320 » 04 Jul 2019, 10:55

SN will not be considered a 'real' network airline as they won't expand the BRU hub a lot. SN will most probably only expand in Africa and if needed for Africa also in the US. That's it.They won't become a network airline like SWISS with destinations in most of the continents. That's why they call it 'to align SN closer to the network airlines'.

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1614
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 04 Jul 2019, 12:15

Sabena320 wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 10:55
SN will not be considered a 'real' network airline as they won't expand the BRU hub a lot. SN will most probably only expand in Africa and if needed for Africa also in the US. That's it.They won't become a network airline like SWISS with destinations in most of the continents. That's why they call it 'to align SN closer to the network airlines'.
Your own interpretation or some real info? If SN is not be considered a network airline, nor a subsidiary of EW, xhat is it?

Focussing on Africa in the short term might not be a bad idea anyways... Money can be made in Africa and, although slightly decreasing, it still is a niche market and a cash cow for SN. Building up finances, expanding African presence and frow there grow further.

As the very SN-case has proven, things can change quickly in aviation. Up untill a month ago we all thought SN was going to disppear in hthe EW brand...

And if the company is given a second chance, on the condition of making more (enough) money, you're better of in Africa in stead of the highly competitive transatlantic market or venturing deep into Asia.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1645
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 04 Jul 2019, 12:22

I don't see the problem to be a network airline with a niche market....it's the same has Finnair for example and you have a lot more examples!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

DannyVDB
Posts: 839
Joined: 12 Aug 2003, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by DannyVDB » 04 Jul 2019, 12:40

The reason why OS is more of a network airline is not of its intercontinental network (they have more or less the same number of long haul aircraft as SN) but are the many connections to eastern european destinations (70+% of pax is transfer traffic).

If you look at their route map you hardly see anything in Southern Europe for example: no Madrid, no Lisbon or Porto, no Malaga, Bilbao ... I even am not sure whether they fly Barcelona

Danny

convair
Posts: 1784
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 04 Jul 2019, 13:00

DeltaWiskey wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 22:54
It remains to be seen what is going to happen with SFJ-K-L-P (A330 operating from DUS), that is something that will be looked at this quarter. What's already known: (1) they will stay on the SN AOC, (2) the tickets will be commercialised by LH, but the aircraft won't be painted in Lufthansa c/s.
Eurowings colors will probably disappear (it would be confusing for the passengers and it does not fit well with the redefined Eurowings).
These are all LH planes recently transferred to EW. I understood the long haul flights out of Germany will be taken over by LH.

JOVAN
Posts: 433
Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by JOVAN » 04 Jul 2019, 13:41

DannyVDB wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 12:40
The reason why OS is more of a network airline is not of its intercontinental network (they have more or less the same number of long haul aircraft as SN) but are the many connections to eastern european destinations (70+% of pax is transfer traffic).

If you look at their route map you hardly see anything in Southern Europe for example: no Madrid, no Lisbon or Porto, no Malaga, Bilbao ... I even am not sure whether they fly Barcelona

Danny
Indeed OS and VIE are the preferred connection popint for almostr all of Eastern Europe.
This is a "historical" thing, knowing that Austria was an Empire occupying many of those countries long ago.
Vienna was the cultural center and the reference city for most of the countries.
Investments froim Austria in thisd countries is also very imporatant.

SN / BRU is same or similar story for Africa.
But SN / BRU could certainly catch a lot more PAX by being the best, fastest, smoothest; most convenient and friendliest transfer point (or Hub) for important but smaller business cities in Western Europe.
When Swissair was in charge; SN airready had 10 million PAX a year.
They had frequent connections to and from the 8 or 10 biggest cities in UK, D, F, I , and other countries.
That wazs a good strategy, with smaller planes ( Avro's ).
Creating the market was OK.
Only they failed because BRU at that time was not made for such HUB - function. It was sometimes very busy and chaotic.
Now pier A would be an ideal transfer station for all intra-Schengen destinations.
And with some good thinking also non-Schengen citries can be added with the use of Pier B.

AMS proofs every day thata it is possible (see how many destrinations in UK, Norway etc...).
On top of the intra-Europe connections, the systrem also feeds the long haul flights from KLM and associated airlines.

As AMS is saturated I could imagine that a SN with (eg) about 20 Embraers would become a good choice for business travellers. Same day return. Collaboration between SN and BRU is essential.

Mr. Reutlinger (CEO of Sabena in those days) was certainly on the good way, but the Swissair-top-crooks (and Al Qaeda) decided otherwise.

If SN and BRU stay with the same strategy (or lack of ..) they will only grow a few hundred thousand PAX a year.
Compared to millions extra for AMS and KLM.

HUB strategy is the future.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1645
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 04 Jul 2019, 13:46

JOVAN wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 13:41
DannyVDB wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 12:40
The reason why OS is more of a network airline is not of its intercontinental network (they have more or less the same number of long haul aircraft as SN) but are the many connections to eastern european destinations (70+% of pax is transfer traffic).

If you look at their route map you hardly see anything in Southern Europe for example: no Madrid, no Lisbon or Porto, no Malaga, Bilbao ... I even am not sure whether they fly Barcelona

Danny
Indeed OS and VIE are the preferred connection popint for almostr all of Eastern Europe.
This is a "historical" thing, knowing that Austria was an Empire occupying many of those countries long ago.
Vienna was the cultural center and the reference city for most of the countries.
Investments froim Austria in thisd countries is also very imporatant.

SN / BRU is same or similar story for Africa.
But SN / BRU could certainly catch a lot more PAX by being the best, fastest, smoothest; most convenient and friendliest transfer point (or Hub) for important but smaller business cities in Western Europe.
When Swissair was in charge; SN airready had 10 million PAX a year.
They had frequent connections to and from the 8 or 10 biggest cities in UK, D, F, I , and other countries.
That wazs a good strategy, with smaller planes ( Avro's ).
Creating the market was OK.
Only they failed because BRU at that time was not made for such HUB - function. It was sometimes very busy and chaotic.
Now pier A would be an ideal transfer station for all intra-Schengen destinations.
And with some good thinking also non-Schengen citries can be added with the use of Pier B.

AMS proofs every day thata it is possible (see how many destrinations in UK, Norway etc...).
On top of the intra-Europe connections, the systrem also feeds the long haul flights from KLM and associated airlines.

As AMS is saturated I could imagine that a SN with (eg) about 20 Embraers would become a good choice for business travellers. Same day return. Collaboration between SN and BRU is essential.

Mr. Reutlinger (CEO of Sabena in those days) was certainly on the good way, but the Swissair-top-crooks (and Al Qaeda) decided otherwise.

If SN and BRU stay with the same strategy (or lack of ..) they will only grow a few hundred thousand PAX a year.
Compared to millions extra for AMS and KLM.

HUB strategy is the future.
Exactly knowing that all big Hubs are overcrowded there is a gap to take for Brussels enjoying is geographical position.
Last edited by lumumba on 04 Jul 2019, 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 35741
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 04 Jul 2019, 13:59

DannyVDB wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 12:40
The reason why OS is more of a network airline is not of its intercontinental network (they have more or less the same number of long haul aircraft as SN) but are the many connections to eastern european destinations (70+% of pax is transfer traffic).

If you look at their route map you hardly see anything in Southern Europe for example: no Madrid, no Lisbon or Porto, no Malaga, Bilbao ... I even am not sure whether they fly Barcelona

Danny
Another reason why OS is a network airline: like LH in FRA and MUC, like LX in ZRH, it has over 60% market share in VIE, while SN has only 40% in BRU.

The market share of SN in BRU has been constantly increasing, year after year, since 2001. But there is still a lot to do to equal the performances of the network airlines.
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4291
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 04 Jul 2019, 15:06

I think a lot of people are making it themselves very difficult here. The press release was very, very clear.
NO integration of SN into EW. This means that both will have nothing to do anymore with each other. EW will stop in some time with long haul. We will see where those planes will go, probably into the network.

But EW has to clean up their own shit and will become a small player on the German market with their own AOC

SN will do what they were doing before but let's hope that they can expand further into Africa as this is what they are good and and which they know as their pocket and they have very good managers overthere.
Maybe one or two more USA flights would be good for SN like NY and BOS.

But please, let's wait and see what they have in their mind and it will become more clear within 3 months.
SN need their own feeder flights for the long haul. So it would be a good idea to stop with some leisure flights and to focus more on real business destinations which will bring also the money. With flights to Cabo Verde they don't earn a lot I think

convair
Posts: 1784
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 04 Jul 2019, 16:04

Atlantis wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 15:06
So it would be a good idea to stop with some leisure flights and to focus more on real business destinations which will bring also the money. With flights to Cabo Verde they don't earn a lot I think
Although I agree with the rest of your post, I believe the leisure flights, mostly done on weekends, can contribute to optimize the use of the fleet, hence to the profitability of the company as well.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 35741
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 04 Jul 2019, 17:32

convair wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 16:04
Atlantis wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 15:06
So it would be a good idea to stop with some leisure flights and to focus more on real business destinations which will bring also the money. With flights to Cabo Verde they don't earn a lot I think
Although I agree with the rest of your post, I believe the leisure flights, mostly done on weekends, can contribute to optimize the use of the fleet, hence to the profitability of the company as well.
I tend to agree with convair. Nobody ever said the leisure flights are unprofitable. SN has an agreement with Thomas Cook, which fills up most of the seats, and this is probably done at a price that is profitble for SN (otherwise there is no need to have an agreement).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Boavida
Posts: 429
Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 23:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boavida » 04 Jul 2019, 20:01

Let's hope Brussels Airlines will become more visible again in its home airport. After the terrorist attacks, the prominent sales & ticketing desk didn't reopen. Now it's totally tucked away, in a hidden corner of the departures hall. Not visible at all.

Image
^^ The old prominent desk. Gone since 2016...

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1614
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 04 Jul 2019, 20:47

SN still is pretty visible in the departure hall... Rows 1 and 2 are for them and it's red and blue all over the place.

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 846
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 05 Jul 2019, 09:04

Boavida wrote:
04 Jul 2019, 20:01
Let's hope Brussels Airlines will become more visible again in its home airport. After the terrorist attacks, the prominent sales & ticketing desk didn't reopen. Now it's totally tucked away, in a hidden corner of the departures hall. Not visible at all.

Image
^^ The old prominent desk. Gone since 2016...
Any project to rebuild a new ticketing & sales counter ?

convair
Posts: 1784
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 05 Jul 2019, 12:33

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
03 Jul 2019, 09:15
OO-SFL is on her "once-in-a-month" charity flight, same as on 03JUN.

She left EBBR this morning as BEL9903 to position for the EW1112 DUS-EWR with STD 11:35LT.

;)

H.A.
Hi H.A., what do you mean by "charity flight"?

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1645
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 07 Jul 2019, 17:18

Why is Brussels Airlines not flying to Lubumbashi?
1 or 2 times a week or even Brussels-Kinshasa-Lubumbashi should work?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 35741
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 07 Jul 2019, 17:29

lumumba wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 17:18
Why is Brussels Airlines not flying to Lubumbashi?
1 or 2 times a week or even Brussels-Kinshasa-Lubumbashi should work?
Probably a problem of bilateral traffic rights.
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1645
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by lumumba » 07 Jul 2019, 17:57

sn26567 wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 17:29
lumumba wrote:
07 Jul 2019, 17:18
Why is Brussels Airlines not flying to Lubumbashi?
1 or 2 times a week or even Brussels-Kinshasa-Lubumbashi should work?
Probably a problem of bilateral traffic rights.
Maybe but South African and Ethiopian are flying there .
Maybe it's possible to negotiate to open this market?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 3029
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 07 Jul 2019, 18:21

Why is Brussels Airlines not flying to Lubumbashi?
Remember Korongo? They'd be clean daft to point even one finger at Lubumbashi. That name is burnt, and will be for some time. It would be nice enough, though, I must agree.

Post Reply