Brussels Airlines in 2019

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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 18 Jun 2019, 13:01

sn26567 wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 11:11
brussels airlines schedules Tomorrowland A330 charter in mid-July 2019
brussels airlines next month once again schedules Tomorrowland charter flight, operating on Brussels – Frankfurt route. Like previous years, the Tomorrowland charter for Frankfurt will be operated by Airbus A330-300 aircraft, scheduled on 18JUL19 for 2019.
Not one in EW livery I hope! ;)

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jun 2019, 18:39

convair wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 13:01
sn26567 wrote:
18 Jun 2019, 11:11
brussels airlines schedules Tomorrowland A330 charter in mid-July 2019
brussels airlines next month once again schedules Tomorrowland charter flight, operating on Brussels – Frankfurt route. Like previous years, the Tomorrowland charter for Frankfurt will be operated by Airbus A330-300 aircraft, scheduled on 18JUL19 for 2019.
Not one in EW livery I hope! ;)
No, usually it's an regular SN livery with Tomorrowland decals.
André
ex Sabena #26567

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by TLspotting » 18 Jun 2019, 19:05

OO-SFX this year?
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by b.lufthansa » 19 Jun 2019, 12:34

Next Monday an extraordinary meeting at Brussels Airlines' works council is being held as "additional measures are needed in the context of the financial turnaround".

Background: Eurowings made a loss of €257M in 1Q 2019

A321Lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by A321Lufthansa » 20 Jun 2019, 00:25

What about OO-SFB? Is it considered as returned to SN from 31.03? Will it get the SN livery and configuration later if yes?

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Darjeeling » 20 Jun 2019, 09:21

b.lufthansa wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 12:34
Next Monday an extraordinary meeting at Brussels Airlines' works council is being held as "additional measures are needed in the context of the financial turnaround".

Background: Eurowings made a loss of €257M in 1Q 2019
I chatted yesterday with one of the top representatives of the SN pilots delegation, he clearly told me that they don't want to hear anything about any "besparing plan" or any saving measures of that kind. They would clearly go direct to the strike stage. :roll: "ingeven is nu gedaan" he told me.
OTOH, would LH be foolish enough to provoke the SN staff one week before the summer holidays ?? :? :shock:

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 20 Jun 2019, 11:56

Darjeeling wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 09:21
b.lufthansa wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 12:34
Next Monday an extraordinary meeting at Brussels Airlines' works council is being held as "additional measures are needed in the context of the financial turnaround".

Background: Eurowings made a loss of €257M in 1Q 2019
I chatted yesterday with one of the top representatives of the SN pilots delegation, he clearly told me that they don't want to hear anything about any "besparing plan" or any saving measures of that kind. They would clearly go direct to the strike stage. :roll: "ingeven is nu gedaan" he told me.
OTOH, would LH be foolish enough to provoke the SN staff one week before the summer holidays ?? :? :shock:
For SN I don't know but during the Summer, cabin crew of Lufthansa, Eurowings and Germanwings are going on strike, see link
I'm pretty sure that SN also will follow if they have to cut costs further or even maybe other actions which will have an impact on SN

https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ervakantie

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter » 20 Jun 2019, 12:16

Darjeeling wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 09:21
b.lufthansa wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 12:34
Next Monday an extraordinary meeting at Brussels Airlines' works council is being held as "additional measures are needed in the context of the financial turnaround".

Background: Eurowings made a loss of €257M in 1Q 2019
I chatted yesterday with one of the top representatives of the SN pilots delegation, he clearly told me that they don't want to hear anything about any "besparing plan" or any saving measures of that kind. They would clearly go direct to the strike stage. :roll: "ingeven is nu gedaan" he told me.
OTOH, would LH be foolish enough to provoke the SN staff one week before the summer holidays ?? :? :shock:
No more saving measures? What do these pilots expect, to somehow work for an airline that can sustain losses in perpetuity? :?

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 20 Jun 2019, 12:45

Jetter wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:16
No more saving measures? What do these pilots expect, to somehow work for an airline that can sustain losses in perpetuity? :?
What do these airline companies expect?
Pilots are already working more for less (gross salary, before someone starts moaning about taxes) than in neighbouring countries or even low cost operators in Belgium. If Lufty pushes for more it could be the straw that broke the camel’s back!

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Jetter » 20 Jun 2019, 15:57

Poiu wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:45
Jetter wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:16
No more saving measures? What do these pilots expect, to somehow work for an airline that can sustain losses in perpetuity? :?
What do these airline companies expect?
Pilots are already working more for less (gross salary, before someone starts moaning about taxes) than in neighbouring countries or even low cost operators in Belgium. If Lufty pushes for more it could be the straw that broke the camel’s back!
The airline company expects that profitability is needed to be sustainable. This has very little to do with LH because profitability has always been an issue, already at the old SN. If anything the pilots are better of with LH because they still have a job. A camel’s back can also be broken by continuing losses: don’t forget that LH bought SN for less than the value of 1 new plane so it wouldn’t be that hard for them to let it sink.

If you compare with neighboring countries you should also take into account Belgian GDP per capita is lower than The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg and Paris so lower wages are to be expected, especially given the governments unfavorable policy towards aviation. That’s not something to blame on the pilots but a fact they have to live with. It doesn’t somehow magically make that SN can pay wages based on what is payed in other countries and sustain the losses.

saratoga
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by saratoga » 20 Jun 2019, 17:28

I am not a SN pilot but it is true that their salary is not the greatest. Cutting even more in that is a disgrace. If i would be one of them, i would start thinking going somewhere else or changing career. I wish them all the best.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 20 Jun 2019, 17:54

Jetter wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 15:57
The airline company expects that profitability is needed to be sustainable. This has very little to do with LH because profitability has always been an issue, already at the old SN. If anything the pilots are better of with LH because they still have a job. A camel’s back can also be broken by continuing losses: don’t forget that LH bought SN for less than the value of 1 new plane so it wouldn’t be that hard for them to let it sink.

If you compare with neighboring countries you should also take into account Belgian GDP per capita is lower than The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg and Paris so lower wages are to be expected, especially given the governments unfavorable policy towards aviation. That’s not something to blame on the pilots but a fact they have to live with. It doesn’t somehow magically make that SN can pay wages based on what is payed in other countries and sustain the losses.
Correct, but all these negatives are already taken into account in the actual working conditions.
Trying to save more will be counterproductive as it will lead to a disengagement of the workforce.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 20 Jun 2019, 19:40

Jetter wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 15:57
Poiu wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:45
Jetter wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 12:16
No more saving measures? What do these pilots expect, to somehow work for an airline that can sustain losses in perpetuity? :?
What do these airline companies expect?
Pilots are already working more for less (gross salary, before someone starts moaning about taxes) than in neighbouring countries or even low cost operators in Belgium. If Lufty pushes for more it could be the straw that broke the camel’s back!
The airline company expects that profitability is needed to be sustainable. This has very little to do with LH because profitability has always been an issue, already at the old SN. If anything the pilots are better of with LH because they still have a job. A camel’s back can also be broken by continuing losses: don’t forget that LH bought SN for less than the value of 1 new plane so it wouldn’t be that hard for them to let it sink.

If you compare with neighboring countries you should also take into account Belgian GDP per capita is lower than The Netherlands, Germany, Luxembourg and Paris so lower wages are to be expected, especially given the governments unfavorable policy towards aviation. That’s not something to blame on the pilots but a fact they have to live with. It doesn’t somehow magically make that SN can pay wages based on what is payed in other countries and sustain the losses.
The LH Group is going to have a multibillon profit. If EW is constantly lossmaking, axe it. Take SN out of it, put it with the other network carriers and give it the means to compete and be profitable. End EW and sack the one who is responsible (Spohr).

If LH takes the EW losses for granted to not have traditional LCC's growing in Germany, stop nagging and accept the loses and do not push your employees over the edge.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Boeing767copilot » 20 Jun 2019, 20:09

If there were now 3 to 5 large Belgian investors who put 200 million on the table to buy back Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa, I think CS would soon sell his "lossmaking" subsidiary.

What do you think?

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by jan_olieslagers » 20 Jun 2019, 20:10

They had every chance to do so before, and didn't - why should they now?

On a technical note, would selling off a part of the company be a competence of the CEO? I should think the board would need to decide, or at least to approve.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 20 Jun 2019, 21:33

Boeing767copilot wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 20:09
If there were now 3 to 5 large Belgian investors who put 200 million on the table to buy back Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa, I think CS would soon sell his "lossmaking" subsidiary.

What do you think?
Why would they put 200 million on the table when they got only 2 million to sell 55% of the company?
André
ex Sabena #26567

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by RoMax » 20 Jun 2019, 21:54

sn26567 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:33
Boeing767copilot wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 20:09
If there were now 3 to 5 large Belgian investors who put 200 million on the table to buy back Brussels Airlines from Lufthansa, I think CS would soon sell his "lossmaking" subsidiary.

What do you think?
Why would they put 200 million on the table when they got only 2 million to sell 55% of the company?
*after none of those shareholders owning that 55% at the time wanted to put 1 Euro on the table while LH enabled with a 100mio credit line to keep SN flying in 2012 with a relative 'small' impact on employment and securing market position (enabling SN to continue the launch of JFK in one of their toughest years of the past decade)

Not a single significant Belgian shareholder wanted to invest in SN when they still had complete freedom to do with it what they wanted, why would anyone do it now (especially 200mio...)? SN always struggled through life by growing and investing with the little money it was earning by itself, small steps, one by one. Not at a single moment it was helped by a rich or willing shareholder (except in 2001/2002 to avoid a complete vacuüm on the Belgian air transport market) - contrary to e.g. Swiss which was kickstarted by rich Swiss banks that quickly switched their focus from the failed Swissair to the new Swiss.

Somehow so many people still seem to hope for some sort of messiah that will 'save SN from all evil' by throwing money and planes at it. That's not how it works...

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by cathay belgium » 20 Jun 2019, 22:02

RoMax wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:54
Somehow so many people still seem to hope for some sort of messiah that will 'save SN from all evil' by throwing money and planes at it. That's not how it works...
Indeed, that's only by Alitalia !

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New types flown : A223,AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,DH Dragonrapide,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Poiu » 20 Jun 2019, 22:51

RoMax wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 21:54
SN always struggled through life by growing and investing with the little money it was earning by itself, small steps, one by one. Not at a single moment it was helped by a rich or willing shareholder (except in 2001/2002 to avoid a complete vacuüm on the Belgian air transport market)
Your memory is letting you down a bit here Romax!
SN has never made any money, apart a couple of marginal profitability years which don’t even make up for the losses made during the other years.
SN has been kept artificially alive by:
-selling LHR slots they “bought” from Sabena for 1€ the day before the bankruptcy,
-by disguised state aid (during 10 years the aircrew pension fund money was withheld from the salaries but not put into the pension fund, which made aircrew lose their special pension in 2011)
-by an Alitalia like construction to transform a 125mio€ state loan into worthless shares.
- idem for the initial investment by the rich and willing 2001 shareholders you speak about
-by an emergency lifeline from Lufty

Employees have been fighting to keep the company alive since the beginning and accepted salaries and working condition which are way below the going rates, it was a price they were willing to pay to be employed close to their families. Asking even more from them now will be a slap in the face which will lead to disengagement and de motivation.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 21 Jun 2019, 01:14

Poiu wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 22:51
Employees have been fighting to keep the company alive since the beginning and accepted salaries and working condition which are way below the going rates, it was a price they were willing to pay to be employed close to their families. Asking even more from them now will be a slap in the face which will lead to disengagement and de motivation.
Wow :shock: Did I just read a slight sense of criticism towards Lufthansa? Your holy Lufthansa?

LH gave SN a lifeline, true. That's all they did. Keep the company afloat but not invest in it, not allow it to prosper and grow into a stable profitability. And now SN is being dragged along in a doomed pet project of Carsten Spohr.

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