Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers » 25 May 2019, 22:17

I did not miss the woord "machteloos" ("powerless"). I don't accept it, because I don't believe it.
It has repeatedly been stated that one of the main demands of ATC staff was that politicians would at least listen to them. Which minister or other person of authority has ever received them? Did they not have the power to do so?

Jetter
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Jetter » 26 May 2019, 07:36

Phoenixx wrote:
25 May 2019, 21:57
Passenger wrote: machteloos
hey tiny man.
When are you going to grow half a pair and start talking with one of the people involved instead of just spamming fake news like a Russian troll while ignoring everything else?

The 'benefit' we're looking to obtain is respect for our rights and rules.
We are not looking for more money or less hours as claimed in this article, both those things come exclusively from our own CEO because he is not willing (n)or able to give us a healthy work life balance as requested.
Anybody with half a brain that followed this thread for the last 15 pages should have probably figured that out by now.
Is it a lack of will or a lack of mental capability that is preventing you from taking in new information if it does not match with your own restricted view?
Don't distort the facts! The latest strike was because all staff wanted a meeting with managment at the same time, a completely unreasonable request which shows the mentality of Skeyes staff. If it's such a horrible employer, why don't find another job? Money is good and stiking whenever it suits without repercussions (except a horrible public image as Skeyes atco) is good isn't it? Are you suggesting the socialist (!) union agreed to a deal that doesn't respect atco's rights?

Skeyes atco's should be ashamed of themselves.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 26 May 2019, 14:26

Jetter wrote:
26 May 2019, 07:36
Don't distort the facts! The latest strike was because all staff wanted a meeting with managment at the same time, a completely unreasonable request which shows the mentality of Skeyes staff. If it's such a horrible employer, why don't find another job? Money is good and stiking whenever it suits without repercussions (except a horrible public image as Skeyes atco) is good isn't it? Are you suggesting the socialist (!) union agreed to a deal that doesn't respect atco's rights?

Skeyes atco's should be ashamed of themselves.
What facts am I distorting here and where is your source for them?
The latest strike was because of one drop too much in an already full bucket.
Because my employer decides to violate the rules and our rights I should change work? What century do you live in?
Who would control the traffic if we all left by the way?
We now have 2 new agreements in effect since the strike notice was filed months ago. none of our demands met, none of our problems solved, twice signed by only acod.
I think I went a bit further than just 'suggesting' that's what acod did, I have confirmed on multiple occasions that's exactly what they did. Have you read these agreements?

Jetter
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Jetter » 26 May 2019, 16:36

Phoenixx wrote:
26 May 2019, 14:26
The latest strike was because of one drop too much in an already full bucket.
That's wrong if the 'drop' itself wasn't a valid reason to strike. Striking as atco because you can't all be informed of something in one meeting isn't a valid reason. It's behavior of spoiled and entitled employees you won't see anywhere else.
Because my employer decides to violate the rules and our rights I should change work? What century do you live in?
You don't have to. But it's telling that atco's are complaining about horrible working conditions for years on end yet they all choose to keep working there. Doesn't add up, why would you waste your life at such an employer? These are supposed to be intelligent people with other career options. What does add up is that working conditions aren't as bad as we are led to believe but atco's are aware of their position and their possibility to coerce society into paying them even more.
Who would control the traffic if we all left by the way?
Why would they suddenly care about that? It doesn't interest them when they all want to be at the same management meeting.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers » 26 May 2019, 16:42

their possibility to coerce society into paying them even more.
It has been repeated over and again that no increase in payment or other material conditions is demanded.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 26 May 2019, 17:46

Jetter wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:36
That's wrong if the 'drop' itself wasn't a valid reason to strike. Striking as atco because you can't all be informed of something in one meeting isn't a valid reason. It's behavior of spoiled and entitled employees you won't see anywhere else.
I refer to my earlier post
The fine line you're talking about is again published in the press by management.
Late Tuesday, they sent an email to canac that they would organise ONE session at 10 am on Thursday.
Not multiple sessions, not small groups, one session and it was sent only to canac. That's where people got pissed.
The 'multiple meetings' was only added next day, and the small group multiple sessions they are referring to are info sessions that were planned long before this agreement was even on the table, they just conveniently changed their purpose as if they were intended for this to begin with.
Slightly different than the official version.
We had a valid strike announcement and it was ignored for months, it still is today.
It's easy to focus on that final drop and call it outrageous that this is "the reason to strike" while ignoring the other 99.5% that led up to this.
Just like you keep focussing on this specific issue while ignoring my other remarks and questions.
Why would they suddenly care about that? It doesn't interest them when they all want to be at the same management meeting.
We do care about that, why do you think we have not closed again since? Why do you think we're not closed right now?
We still want answers and solutions and we still don't get either.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Boeing767copilot » 26 May 2019, 18:16

Phoenixx wrote:
26 May 2019, 17:46
Jetter wrote:
26 May 2019, 16:36
That's wrong if the 'drop' itself wasn't a valid reason to strike. Striking as atco because you can't all be informed of something in one meeting isn't a valid reason. It's behavior of spoiled and entitled employees you won't see anywhere else.
I refer to my earlier post
The fine line you're talking about is again published in the press by management.
Late Tuesday, they sent an email to canac that they would organise ONE session at 10 am on Thursday.
Not multiple sessions, not small groups, one session and it was sent only to canac. That's where people got pissed.
The 'multiple meetings' was only added next day, and the small group multiple sessions they are referring to are info sessions that were planned long before this agreement was even on the table, they just conveniently changed their purpose as if they were intended for this to begin with.
Slightly different than the official version.
We had a valid strike announcement and it was ignored for months, it still is today.
It's easy to focus on that final drop and call it outrageous that this is "the reason to strike" while ignoring the other 99.5% that led up to this.
Just like you keep focussing on this specific issue while ignoring my other remarks and questions.
Why would they suddenly care about that? It doesn't interest them when they all want to be at the same management meeting.
We do care about that, why do you think we have not closed again since? Why do you think we're not closed right now?
We still want answers and solutions and we still don't get either.
No, because EVERY company sets the rules and employees are expected to follow them or leave.

PLEASE finally open your eyes and stop campaigning and complaining to make you even more impossible and ridiculous.

Now just go back to work. The airport and millions of people would be very grateful to you.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers » 26 May 2019, 18:42

go "BACK" to work? As I understand it they are working right now (at least I see the airliners descending to EBBR 25L+R before my eyes!) - more than their contract requires, and perhaps even more than legally allowed. Please discuss with facts, not with cries or slogans.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 26 May 2019, 19:25

Boeing767copilot wrote:
26 May 2019, 18:16

No, because EVERY company sets the rules and employees are expected to follow them or leave.

PLEASE finally open your eyes and stop campaigning and complaining to make you even more impossible and ridiculous.

Now just go back to work. The airport and millions of people would be very grateful to you.
You sound like you're losing your temper a bit and I don't quite understand why.
What is that initial 'no' even about?

Every normal company sets the rules for their employees within the legal framework: respecting the agreements they made with their employees in the contract and work regulations, within the limits of the applicable caos and complying with Belgian and European law. That's what every company is ought to do.
Skeyes does none of these things. As long as they don't, we will keep complaining and protesting.
If you think this is ridiculous, we are done talking.
If you don't want to listen, fine, I'm used to that.
But don't bark at me and expect to get the final word because you don't want to hear the answer.

And I will go back to work when my next shift starts, like we all do at the moment.


flightlover
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by flightlover » 03 Jun 2019, 12:11

Now, Where is that A380 when you need it :twisted: ;) :lol:

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 03 Jun 2019, 14:49

Boeing767copilot wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 02:50
Delays rose by 100% in Europe, 2019 to be “at least as bad”

https://www.aerotime.aero/iata.agm.seou ... ast-as-bad
Don't worry, Europe has the answer 😉

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/ai ... traffic_en

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers » 03 Jun 2019, 14:52

No they do not have answers, they only have "targets" - meaning (for me, at least) they acknowledge they have no answers. Perhaps your emoticon hinted as much..?

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 03 Jun 2019, 15:36

jan_olieslagers wrote:
03 Jun 2019, 14:52
Perhaps your emoticon hinted as much..?
I was indeed a bit ironic !

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx » 04 Jun 2019, 10:42

Source is muac facebook (union atcos Maastricht) but still an interesting picture of how Belgium screams fire and murder at the problem, but doesn't exactly contribute to the solution.
This is about Eurocontrol, not Skeyes. Affecting Belgian airspace nontheless and a good example of Belgian policies.

Image
Image



TLspotting
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by TLspotting » 17 Jun 2019, 19:19

A2124/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLT/IV/NBO/E /045/245/5100N00334E060
A) EBBU B) 1906172330 C) 1906180230
E) BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS NORTH LOW, WEST HIGH, WEST LOW CLSD DUE TO
STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 » 17 Jun 2019, 19:36

TLspotting wrote:
17 Jun 2019, 19:19
A2124/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLT/IV/NBO/E /045/245/5100N00334E060
A) EBBU B) 1906172330 C) 1906180230
E) BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS NORTH LOW, WEST HIGH, WEST LOW CLSD DUE TO
STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED.
IMG-20190617-WA0005.jpg

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luchtzak
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by luchtzak » 17 Jun 2019, 21:58

DIfficult to understand the text, but only the Western part will be closed.

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