Brussels Airlines in 2019

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Conti764 » 14 May 2019, 14:45

I can only speak for myself, @Inquirer, but I don't really care for the paint on the fuselage. If SN staff is not negatively affected I don't care if it's Brussels Airlines or Eurowings. And to be clear, I don't work for SN.

I do fear the consequences for BRU though. We have experienced quite a strong expansion in destinations but it's stagnating a bit. Unless LH anounces EW becoming a full *A-member (an xxl-SN so to say) soon other airlines have no reason anymore to fly into BRU, or at least lesser reasons. BRU would be scaled back to a feeder station, having other hubs (FRA, DUS, MUC, ZRH and VIE) doing the international flying.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 14 May 2019, 15:37

That is indeed the case. It is not important what color is on the plane.

But there is a real concern in this:

1) EW is not doing good, but in meantime they swallowed SN into them. What in case that they will stop with this project?? Then there will be even no airline anymore in BRU bcs SN is owned and part of LH. Swiss scenario?? This is a real consequence for BRU. If no airline anymore then LH will win twice. They fence now their backyard and use SN/EW as feeder for probably their own hubs. And in case EW will discontinue, everything will be centralized in DE.

2) Will the same product of SN stay in Europe even it will be now EW. If not, no reason for other airlines to codeshare. SN will still fly on their own AOC but with which product?

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sean1982 » 14 May 2019, 16:08

Atlantis wrote:
14 May 2019, 15:37
That is indeed the case. It is not important what color is on the plane.

But there is a real concern in this:

1) EW is not doing good, but in meantime they swallowed SN into them. What in case that they will stop with this project?? Then there will be even no airline anymore in BRU bcs SN is owned and part of LH. Swiss scenario?? This is a real consequence for BRU. If no airline anymore then LH will win twice. They fence now their backyard and use SN/EW as feeder for probably their own hubs. And in case EW will discontinue, everything will be centralized in DE.

2) Will the same product of SN stay in Europe even it will be now EW. If not, no reason for other airlines to codeshare. SN will still fly on their own AOC but with which product?
Exactly, inquirer you changed your opinion about a 1000 times in the last 5 years, I still remember your “impressive line up of B-tails post” from a few years ago.

The point is not about the paint but about integration into a massively loss making project. This could be harmful not only for SN but also for BRU. An integration into easyJet or Ryanair for that matter would have been a lot less worysome.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by PttU » 14 May 2019, 17:36

The fact that EW isn't making any profit might be irrelevant: if they need to make (some) loss to keep the other LCC's away, it might be worth it.
If EW should raise their prices to become profitable, they leave a bigger part of the market for for instance Ryanair to fill in. And more and more people will take that option, leaving less and less passengers for EW for the same route. so in the end: EW has to downscale, abandon the route or accept the loss to keep the competitors out...

One more reason to accept losses now is if these losses can be explained by higher fuel prices. If the same amount of pax at the same prices but with the fuel price of last year (or an expected fuel price in the future) would be profitable: it's reasonable to accept the loss. Especially if combined with the above.

stevemertens
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by stevemertens » 15 May 2019, 10:49

I heard a rumour about a 7th icon livery that would be presented in june. Any confirmation on this?

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 15 May 2019, 10:55

stevemertens wrote:
15 May 2019, 10:49
I heard a rumour about a 7th icon livery that would be presented in june. Any confirmation on this?
Correct: the EW livery on OO-SNN! ;)

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by stevemertens » 15 May 2019, 11:05

convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 10:55
stevemertens wrote:
15 May 2019, 10:49
I heard a rumour about a 7th icon livery that would be presented in june. Any confirmation on this?
Correct: the EW livery on OO-SNN! ;)
No not the EW livery on OO-SNN. The rumour I heard is about a Disney livery (Lion King), but I can't see a link with Disney being a Belgian icon...

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 15 May 2019, 11:10

stevemertens wrote:
15 May 2019, 10:49
I heard a rumour about a 7th icon livery that would be presented in june. Any confirmation on this?
During the presentation of the 6th icon, SN staff indeed indicated plans for a 7th icon, not in June, but some time in 2020.

[Ironic mode on] Eurowings flies you to the home of the European Commission [Ironic mode off].
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stevemertens
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by stevemertens » 15 May 2019, 11:33

sn26567 wrote:
15 May 2019, 11:10
Eurowings flies you to the home of the European Commission.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger » 15 May 2019, 12:51

Brussels Airlines has realized an operational profit for 2017 of 3,92M (which is good, given the 22/03/2016 drama and the startups from India and the Thomas Cook ops). However, for BY2017 they also had to register two huge non-reccurrent costs: the refund of the illegal state aid (2013, 2014, 2015) and a loss of 21M on the 22/03/2016 insurance payout (registered a year earlier, but the insurance companies didn't pay what Brussels Airlines expected). Those non-reccurrent costs, and previous losses, leave them with a cumulated loss on 31/12/2017 of 105M.


Regarding Brussels Airlines’ future: maybe some people should learn to make a difference between the integration of Brussels Airlines into Eurowings (example: one fuel hedging desk, in Düsseldorf), and the merger of Brussels Airlines nv/sa into Eurowings GmbH (with all debts and assets transferred from the Belgian nv/sa to the German GmbH, followed by the liquidation of the Belgian nv/sa).


Contrary to most people here, I have never spoken to Carsten Spohr so I don’t know his intentions. But I have listened to Christina Foerster in real life a few times already, and for me it’s clear she was sent to Brussels to run the company, and not to close the door. Actually, with Lufthansa controlling BRU’s main carrier, Lufthansa avoids competition on their very busy and very high yield routes BRU-FRA and BRU-MUC.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 15 May 2019, 18:31

Passenger wrote:
15 May 2019, 12:51
Actually, with Lufthansa controlling BRU’s main carrier, Lufthansa avoids competition on their very busy and very high yield routes BRU-FRA and BRU-MUC.
Are you sure about that? Usually, airlines offer a very good deal to connecting pax, to the point that the "feeding" leg doesn't bring much money, if any. e.g. AF long haul flights are often cheaper from BRU than from CDG.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 15 May 2019, 20:19

convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 18:31
Passenger wrote:
15 May 2019, 12:51
Actually, with Lufthansa controlling BRU’s main carrier, Lufthansa avoids competition on their very busy and very high yield routes BRU-FRA and BRU-MUC.
Are you sure about that? Usually, airlines offer a very good deal to connecting pax, to the point that the "feeding" leg doesn't bring much money, if any. e.g. AF long haul flights are often cheaper from BRU than from CDG.
Indeed for connecting passengers, but point-to-point passengers are ripped off on these routes.
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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 15 May 2019, 22:27

sn26567 wrote:
15 May 2019, 20:19
convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 18:31
Passenger wrote:
15 May 2019, 12:51
Actually, with Lufthansa controlling BRU’s main carrier, Lufthansa avoids competition on their very busy and very high yield routes BRU-FRA and BRU-MUC.
Are you sure about that? Usually, airlines offer a very good deal to connecting pax, to the point that the "feeding" leg doesn't bring much money, if any. e.g. AF long haul flights are often cheaper from BRU than from CDG.
Indeed for connecting passengers, but point-to-point passengers are ripped off on these routes.
Absolutely!
Therefore, it would be interesting to know the split; moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 15 May 2019, 22:40

convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:27
... moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.
Hummm a low cost operating in BRU ? Eurowings ? ;)

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by TLspotting » 15 May 2019, 22:50

nordikcam wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:40
convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:27
... moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.
Hummm a low cost operating in BRU ? Eurowings ? ;)
We've got a winner!

Transavia flew in 2015 I think or maybe later from Munich to Brussels, with 3 flights per week if I remind well. They left BRU since. But frequency was really poor next to the +- 46 flights per week...
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by Passenger » 15 May 2019, 23:39

convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:27
Therefore, it would be interesting to know the split; moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.
Frankfurt and Munich are no tourism destinations - contrary to Berlin. Point to point traffic thus is almost limited to a business clientele, and they don't like LCC's because they need flexible tickets. Hence LCC's abstain.

brabel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by brabel » 16 May 2019, 09:17

TLspotting wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:50
nordikcam wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:40
convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:27
... moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.
Hummm a low cost operating in BRU ? Eurowings ? ;)
We've got a winner!

Transavia flew in 2015 I think or maybe later from Munich to Brussels, with 3 flights per week if I remind well. They left BRU since. But frequency was really poor next to the +- 46 flights per week...
I think they were planning to fly between the two cities... Don't think they did as they closed their Munich base

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by sn26567 » 16 May 2019, 10:54

TLspotting wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:50

Transavia flew in 2015 I think or maybe later from Munich to Brussels, with 3 flights per week if I remind well. They left BRU since. But frequency was really poor next to the +- 46 flights per week...
Transavia had scheduled twice-daily flights from a new base in Munich. I even booked a daily return with them. And then there was 22 March. The flights never took off and I was reimbursed. A few months later Transavia closed its Munich base. Difficult to compete with almighty Lufthansa.
André
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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by convair » 16 May 2019, 13:49

Passenger wrote:
15 May 2019, 23:39
convair wrote:
15 May 2019, 22:27
Therefore, it would be interesting to know the split; moreover, maybe LCCs should have a close look at these 2 routes/opportunities for the ptp pax.
Frankfurt and Munich are no tourism destinations - contrary to Berlin. Point to point traffic thus is almost limited to a business clientele, and they don't like LCC's because they need flexible tickets. Hence LCC's abstain.
You're right, but when I mentioned the split, I meant connecting vs ptp in order to evaluate the size of the cake.
Some bold airline might be tempted to try and carve itself a good slice.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2019

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 16 May 2019, 19:55

Time to merge this topic with Eurowings in 2019, no?!

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