Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Passenger
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger »

Bracebrace wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 15:07
Er werd beslist de motoren nog verder naar voren te monteren om genoeg grondruimte te behouden. Maar dat maakte het toestel inherent instabiel, vooral bij het opstijgen.
Unfortunately this single phrase shows that Mr Noels does not know the problem, and does not know what he is talking about. MCAS does not work with flaps out, so... takeoff phase? The 737 is perfectly stable. MCAS influences stick force stability in high AOA with flaps up.
Read the article please. For the above remark, Geert Noels was not referring to the 737 MAX, but to the 737 Classic (-300, -400 and -500. Production as from 1984).

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Passenger wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 21:20
Read the article please. For the above remark, Geert Noels was not referring to the 737 MAX, but to the 737 Classic (-300, -400 and -500. Production as from 1984).
I did read the article and yes he is referring to the MAX. Before the quoted remark he refers to "afplatting" as not enough (which happened on the "classic"). In the quote he refers to engines that are placed "even further up front", and as a solution he refers to a device that pushes the nose down, corrections through software and directly to the Ethiopian crash.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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This is a summary of what Geert Noels wrote:
Geert Noels' full opinion article on tijd.be =
https://www.tijd.be/opinie/column/leer- ... 21323.html

346 people have died because of a bad design, too much confidence in software and failing authorities. We can only hope that other airlines, other branches and the whole economy learn from it.

The 737 Original (737-100 and 737-200) had small engines under its wings. The 737 Classic (300, 400, 500) had larger engines that had to be moved forward. And thus flattened. For next 737 models, Boeing adapted the “grandfather clause”: because there were not too many changes to the previous model, Boeing needed just a quick visit from the regulator.

But meanwhile, Airbus became a real competitor. Boeing attacked Airbus with the 737, and that pressure to improve performances pushed Boeing over an acceptable limit. For the 737 MAX, an AoA came to rescue, but pilots where not trained enough. And worse: even well trained pilots, like the Ethiopian crew, lost controls.

What do we have to learn from the 737 Max debackle?

1. A company and its regulator should not be too close.
2. Bad hardware cannot be solved with software.
3. Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) hamper a clean view for the risk of “garbage in, garbage out”. There is a gap between A.I.-whizzkids and those working on the field (including pilots).
4. The 737 success didn’t stimulate real innovation.
5. People are no machine, and machine are not allways more clever then people. Boeing thaught they had made a product that couldn’t fail.

The 737 MAX has a structural design error. It’s an unstable aircraft that should be grounded forever. Yet I think that the FAA will soon give the green light because new software is supposed to compensate bad software. I’m a pilot but I won’t be a passenger on the 737 MAX. But I’m also an economist, and I also realize that I’m a passenger on an inherently unstable economic system.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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"Some pilots have said 15min of MCAS training is plenty, noting their familiarity with the 737 Max’s systems. Sources have also noted the complex logistics of running thousands of pilots through the few 737 Max simulators available"
So a simple laptop training will do for the moment, “longer term, we're also deploying training packages and additional educational materials,” Muilenburg said.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 37-457763/

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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FAA is inviting top civil aviation officials from around the world to a 23 May 2019 meeting to discuss the now-grounded B737 MAX.

Boeing says effort to return the B737 MAX to service has not affected B777X development or potential NMA development.

FlyDubai may replace some B737 MAX on order with A320neos, says chairman Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, as the MAX grounding has cost the airline a “lot of profitability”.

FlyEgypt dropped its planned summer 2019 flights from Hurghada to Rostock-Laage, due to the B737 MAX grounding.

Southwest Airlines and the FAA were unaware that a standard safety feature, designed to warn pilots about malfunctioning sensors, on B737 MAX jets was turned off when Southwest began flying the model in 2017.
Southwest Airlines expects it will take a month to get all 34 B737 MAX to relaunch and back in service once the aircraft is cleared for operations.

United Airlines expects to cancel about 900 flights in May 2019 and around 130 in April due to the grounding of B737 MAX jets.

Xiamen Airlines is looking to lease two B757s it recently sold and bring them back into service during summer 2019 season, amid B737 MAX grounding.

Air Canada has further adjusted its schedule through to 01 August 2019 die to B737 MAX grounding.

American Airlines Group cut its 2019 profit forecast, blaming an estimated US$350 million hit from the grounding of B737 MAX planes, but said it was confident that the jets would start flying again before mid-August 2019.

Southwest Airlines said the grounding of its B737 MAX will cut flight-capacity growth and push up costs in the coming months. The carrier said it expects to expand its flight capacity by between 2% and 3% in 2019.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Boeing says it included the disagree alert as a standard feature on the MAX, although this alert has not been considered a safety feature on airplanes and is not necessary for the safe operation of the airplane.

GE added Boeing’s B737 MAX as “a new risk” in its quarterly earnings report, citing production of engines for the planes and its ownership of several of the aircraft for its leasing business.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Emirates boss looking at possible Airbus option for its partner airline after Boeing 737 Max grounding
  • Emirates regional partner airline, Flydubai, currently has more than 100 737 Max 8 planes on order.
  • Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said he needed to look at options if the Max orders could not be fulfilled.
  • Emirates has said growth is being hampered by political tensions around the world.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/emirate ... nding.html
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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TLspotting wrote:
30 Apr 2019, 21:27
Boeing says it included the disagree alert as a standard feature on the MAX, although this alert has not been considered a safety feature on airplanes and is not necessary for the safe operation of the airplane.
Image
Source: Airways Magazine
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Airlines instructed to inspect some Boeing 737 Max engines after Southwest emergency landing

In recent weeks, engine maker CFM instructed several airlines including American and Southwest to inspect a total of 25 engines on their grounded Boeing 737 Max fleets. The order follows a March 26 incident involving a Southwest Airlines 737 Max 8 plane where pilots had to shut down an engine shortly after taking off from the Orlando International Airport on a ferry flight to Victorville.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737 ... -aircraft/
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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TLspotting wrote:
30 Apr 2019, 19:41
FAA is inviting top civil aviation officials from around the world to a 23 May 2019 meeting to discuss the now-grounded B737 MAX.
Simon Hradecky, editor The Aviation Herald, has just posted an update on this matter:

"The FAA via their Flight Standardization Board (FSB) had invited for comments until April 30th 2019 regarding their draft for certification of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft (and differences to Boeing 737 aircraft in general)... In order to ensure, that the questions not only reach the FAA press office (and may perhaps not make their way further to the relevant decision makers within the FAA for possible consideration), we decided to also submit our questions as comment to that draft in order to ensure, the FSB at least gets to know the questions (and thoughts behind them) for possible consideration. Here is the quote of our submission to the FSB transmitted on April 25th 2019:
...
Then follows a list with 25 remarks or questions, like the following:
...
22 - How does the design of the MCAS, the ADIRU, the AoA, the stickshaker and the TRIM CUTOUT switches match the requirements of CRM (Cockpit Resource Management), I wrote in our editorial at : "Over the more than 100 years of aviation and aircraft accident investigations one of the principles deemed most important today emerged: the Cockpit Resource Management (CRM). The principle that everybody in the cockpit as well as anything in the cockpit should ensure that all available resources in the cockpit are being used. Is it thus not a gross violation of the CRM, committed already by the designers of the aircraft, when a system does not take a second available resource into account, like the right hand AoA? How can it be argued to be in compliance with CRM when a crew can not de-activate a stick shaker that has been identified to operate erroneously, except by pulling the circuit breaker? How can it be argued, that other than on NG aircraft, where the TRIM CUTOUT switches disable automatic trim inputs and electrical manual trim inputs separately, either of the TRIM CUTOUT switches disables ALL electrical trim inputs, both manual and automatic ones depriving the crew of possibly still well functioning, available and needed resources?"

Full story:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0052&opt=0

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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WestJet suspends :
Halifax - Paris CDG, as from 3 June until 2 August
Edmonton - Ottawa, as from 3 June until 3 July
Toronto - Kelowna, as from 3 June until 27 June
Vancouver - Regina, as from 3 June until 3 July.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Boeing knew of a software error that prevented the correct functioning of a safety alert system on the B737 MAX for a year before disclosing the problem to regulators and airlines, says a report published in The Wall Street Journal.

Boeing limited the role of its own pilots in the final stages of developing the B737 MAX flight-control system implicated in two fatal crashes, departing from a longstanding practice of seeking their detailed input.

Bad days for Boeing...
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

With all respect to André Berger.. but in light of the last news we heard of Boeing, he surely is promoting his new fleet ( it is needed because who want to fly that plane now anyway )...
Such messages make me laugh and hoped he was a bit smarter.
Reads to me as TUI is just like Boeing thinking of money above safety.
Why not awaiting real results on thé facts ?
Poor post...

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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cathay belgium wrote:
07 May 2019, 09:22
Hi,

With all respect to André Berger.. but in light of the last news we heard of Boeing, he surely is promoting his new fleet ( it is needed because who want to fly that plane now anyway )...
Such messages make me laugh and hoped he was a bit smarter.
Reads to me as TUI is just like Boeing thinking of money above safety.
Why not awaiting real results on thé facts ?
Poor post...

CXB
Exactly my opinion. Andre Berger has shown in the past he was a staunch supporter of the 737 MAX, no matter what happened. Has this aeroplane received the MCAS software corrections? If not, you won't see me on it. If yes, I would first wait to have it validated by FAA, or better, by EASA, knowing the links between Boeing and FAA.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Poiu »

sn26567 wrote:
07 May 2019, 11:35
cathay belgium wrote:
07 May 2019, 09:22
Hi,

With all respect to André Berger.. but in light of the last news we heard of Boeing, he surely is promoting his new fleet ( it is needed because who want to fly that plane now anyway )...
Such messages make me laugh and hoped he was a bit smarter.
Reads to me as TUI is just like Boeing thinking of money above safety.
Why not awaiting real results on thé facts ?
Poor post...

CXB
Exactly my opinion. Andre Berger has shown in the past he was a staunch supporter of the 737 MAX, no matter what happened. Has this aeroplane received the MCAS software corrections? If not, you won't see me on it. If yes, I would first wait to have it validated by FAA, or better, by EASA, knowing the links between Boeing and FAA.
If André Berger would be the pilot in command, I don’t have any problem being a passenger on it.
Unfortunately not all pilots have over 20000 hrs of B737 under their belt and haven’t been a TRI on it for over 30 years.
When it goes tits up the MAX requires flying skills which today’s pilots (JAF probably being a rare exception) don’t have anymore! So either you train adequately either you correct the hard and software, preferably both!

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by cathay belgium »

737MAX wrote:
07 May 2019, 11:39
sn26567 wrote:
07 May 2019, 11:35

Exactly my opinion. Andre Berger has shown in the past he was a staunch supporter of the 737 MAX, no matter what happened. Has this aeroplane received the MCAS software corrections? If not, you won't see me on it. If yes, I would first wait to have it validated by FAA, or better, by EASA, knowing the links between Boeing and FAA.
One question here (open to everybody of course):

Do you believe the Ethiopian crash wouldn't have happened if the MCAS software had been corrected?
If yes, why?

Euh... I, we ,Boeing don't know this... Yet...
We miss a lot of real facts...
Fact is that Boeing knew it could give a problem and that they didn't care about it... In their race to beat thé NEO...
A fatal fault...
Thinking about money above safety is thé main fault..
In fact a big error in hardware correcting with Dome software just to beat airbus is a disgrace... To Mighty Boeing...

But money rules the world..

Have one mAX in my planned flights list, hoping they switch it to An old B757 ;)
Last edited by cathay belgium on 07 May 2019, 15:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Bracebrace »

Poiu wrote:
07 May 2019, 12:21
When it goes tits up the MAX requires flying skills which today’s pilots (JAF probably being a rare exception) don’t have anymore!
Maybe, maybe not. Reading the Boeing 737 FCTM, it says you might need a lot of altitude. As far as I know JAF cannot create altitude.

"Noise prooves nothing"

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Bracebrace »

* removed * prefer it this way :)
Last edited by Bracebrace on 07 May 2019, 19:45, edited 2 times in total.

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