Air Belgium in 2018

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TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

Walloon Government examined this morning the possibility of granting a loan of €4 mln for Air Belgium.
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ZavCity
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by ZavCity »

In that case they should be renamed AIR WALLONIE!
gtz
paul

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by b.lufthansa »

TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 14:39 Walloon Government examined this morning the possibility of granting a loan of €4 mln for Air Belgium.
If that is allowed by EU ?

Perhaps they should start working iso celebrating King day :roll:

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skumfiduse
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by skumfiduse »

b.lufthansa wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 17:21
TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 14:39 Walloon Government examined this morning the possibility of granting a loan of €4 mln for Air Belgium.
If that is allowed by EU ?

Perhaps they should start working iso celebrating King day :roll:
State aid? Or will they give 4 mln euros to Brussels Airlines, TUI fly and SHS Aviation as well? 😁

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

skumfiduse wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 18:36
b.lufthansa wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 17:21
TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 14:39 Walloon Government examined this morning the possibility of granting a loan of €4 mln for Air Belgium.
If that is allowed by EU ?

Perhaps they should start working iso celebrating King day :roll:
State aid? Or will they give 4 mln euros to Brussels Airlines, TUI fly and SHS Aviation as well? 😁
It's not a gift, it's a loan! Besides, the Walloon government did invest in SN Brussels Airlines (and lost its investment, tanks to LH buying 55% at rock bottom prices)
André
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by jan_olieslagers »

In that case they should be renamed AIR WALLONIE!
Really? Then, if the week after they manage to get a loan from KBC (just to name one), they should be renamed Air KBC?

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 14:39 Walloon Government examined this morning the possibility of granting a loan of €4 mln for Air Belgium.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see it in today's overview:
http://gouvernement.wallonie.be/home/pu ... nfull.html

But then, they probably know it's risky to put something online about it.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

€4 millions from Sogepa, to Air Belgium.
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 70336.html
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Poiu
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Poiu »

sn26567 wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 18:49 the Walloon government did invest in SN Brussels Airlines (and lost its investment, tanks to LH buying 55% at rock bottom prices)
OFF TOPIC alert.
If SN would have paid back the Walloon governement they would have gone bankrupt and LH would not have bought the remaining 55%. Beside the loss of the Walloon investment, LH had to provide a 100 million guarantee to save SN. Mr Gustin’s words at that time: “we are in survival mode”...

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 20:27 €4 millions from Sogepa, to Air Belgium.
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 70336.html
Weird article. Shocking content. And a strange loan, specially when they expect that a foreign shareholder will refund 2 mio soon after the taxpayers money is recieved. Why doens't this Chinese guy then provides a 2M loan, via a subordinated loan? That way, there's no problem with "foreign ownership" as they claim.

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Passenger wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 20:56
TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 20:27 €4 millions from Sogepa, to Air Belgium.
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 70336.html
Weird article. Shocking content. And a strange loan, specially when they expect that a foreign shareholder will refund 2 mio soon after the taxpayers money is recieved. Why doens't this Chinese guy then provides a 2M loan, via a subordinated loan? That way, there's no problem with "foreign ownership" as they claim.
So actually their 20 mio € capital is gone, and they urgently need another 4 mio €.

Maybe it's time for the shareholders to consolidate their losses.

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

Passenger wrote: 17 Nov 2018, 16:00
Passenger wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 20:56
TLspotting wrote: 16 Nov 2018, 20:27 €4 millions from Sogepa, to Air Belgium.
https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 70336.html
Weird article. Shocking content. And a strange loan, specially when they expect that a foreign shareholder will refund 2 mio soon after the taxpayers money is recieved. Why doens't this Chinese guy then provides a 2M loan, via a subordinated loan? That way, there's no problem with "foreign ownership" as they claim.
So actually their 20 mio € capital is gone, and they urgently need another 4 mio €.

Maybe it's time for the shareholders to consolidate their losses.
How do you know that their capital is gone?

I don't think it is true... How can you still hire people, fly for other airlines... Without capital?
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Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

TLspotting wrote: 17 Nov 2018, 17:06
Passenger wrote: 17 Nov 2018, 16:00 So actually their 20 mio € capital is gone, and they urgently need another 4 mio €.
Maybe it's time for the shareholders to consolidate their losses.
How do you know that their capital is gone?
I don't think it is true... How can you still hire people, fly for other airlines... Without capital?
When you have started with 20 mio € and you ask Sogepa for a loan of 4 mio €, there aren't many other possibilities then "nothing is left from the initial 20 mio". Why else would they need a loan?

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

And if they need €4 mln to just set up the relaunch of the ops, without touching the capital?
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Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

TLspotting wrote: 17 Nov 2018, 18:39 And if they need €4 mln to just set up the relaunch of the ops, without touching the capital?
Passiva on their balance sheet: the capital is 20 mio € and remains 20 mio € (until a capital raise or a capital decrease). Capitaux propres (eigen vermogen): we don't know, but there was that alert few weeks ago that it was going down.

This loan request looks like they don't have enough Activa = they need more valeurs disponibles (liquide middelen) for short term debts/payments. Reason? No idea: maybe Air France is late with their ACMI payments, maybe British Airways is. Unfortunaetly, it may also be more serious = that much more money goes out then the money that comes in.

But what L'Echo writes about that new Chinese touroperator (aka investor aka administrator) is going to pay it back, is weird.

N77014
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by N77014 »

I understand Air Belgium stopped offering scheduled flights, at least for now, and concentrates on ACMI. But do we have any idea of the utilization rate of their planes, must be incredibly low, no ? Any idea in % ? Except for a few weeks AF and BA business, and some ocassional other missions, what are those planes doing ? Must cost tons of money, without consistent income, or what do I miss ?

Desert Rat
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Desert Rat »

:roll:

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Acid-drop »

Its a short term "bridge" loan... waiting for chineese money, if i understood correctly.
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

N77014 wrote: 18 Nov 2018, 11:10 I understand Air Belgium stopped offering scheduled flights, at least for now, and concentrates on ACMI. But do we have any idea of the utilization rate of their planes, must be incredibly low, no ? Any idea in % ? Except for a few weeks AF and BA business, and some ocassional other missions, what are those planes doing ? Must cost tons of money, without consistent income, or what do I miss ?
What are the current ACMI contracts?

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

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