Brussels Airlines in 2018

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Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu » 18 Sep 2018, 14:16

SabenaForever wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 12:00

So Lufthansa is doing is job in BRU... Axes Mumbai.. i can not believe that a direct flight to India will not work, with the large Indian community and the Diamant sector. Business people don’t want to fly 1stop... i see a lot of passengers go to India via AMS.
Do you believe for one second LH would axe a profit making route???
This is a pure business decision gentlemen, no more no less.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by luchtzak » 18 Sep 2018, 14:34

Poiu wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 14:16
SabenaForever wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 12:00

So Lufthansa is doing is job in BRU... Axes Mumbai.. i can not believe that a direct flight to India will not work, with the large Indian community and the Diamant sector. Business people don’t want to fly 1stop... i see a lot of passengers go to India via AMS.
Do you believe for one second LH would axe a profit making route???
This is a pure business decision gentlemen, no more no less.
From the news item: Brussels Airlines’ Mumbai flights, which were launched in March 2017, will be stopped on January 6 for economic reasons, as the route does not deliver the anticipated results.

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 18 Sep 2018, 15:02

Airbus330lover wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 13:42

And LH thinks that most of the belgians will go to DUS to take a plane
Actually, my friends in Limburg are so fed up with the traffic jams on their way to BRU and the possible queue's at security and border controll they're flying from DUS anyway.

Cheers,

Stij

Stij
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Stij » 18 Sep 2018, 15:03

luchtzak wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 14:34
From the news item: Brussels Airlines’ Mumbai flights, which were launched in March 2017, will be stopped on January 6 for economic reasons, as the route does not deliver the anticipated results.
Could very well be, but I don't beleive everything I read either...

Cheers,

Stij

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam » 18 Sep 2018, 15:08

And what's going on with the Indian crew members? SN assimilates them and puts them in place on other routes or they are told "Thank you and see you soon on board again" ?

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer » 18 Sep 2018, 15:17

A pity to read this indeed,
but if this single route to India doesn't add to their bottom line, it needs to go, simple as that really.
They can then refocus their resources on those markets where there are well established, highly respected and reportedly operating profitable too, rather than spreading them thinly over several continents at once in pursuit of what are always going to be just marginal and probably also low or no profit market shares.
As a stand alone it makes sense to be willing to be present everywhere, but that's just not how you run a profitable business segment within a multinational group of course: you better concentrate on what you're really good at and try to excel in it to make sure you're the natural first point of call for both the group's management as well as customers when it comes to serving those markets: it generally results in higher unit revenues at the segment level, as well as better group results too.
They tried something boldly by expanding into a completely new market and it did seem like a good opportunistic shot back then, but it didn't turn out as planned: time to move on and strengthen the core elements of their business again rather than waste more time and money on non-core markets, as competition isn't standing still on Africa either, of course!
I'd expect Lufthansa to refocus them further on their historic natural strongholds in Africa in future and I wouldn't be surprised to see them take away some capacity from transatlantic routes for this purpose too?
Last edited by Inquirer on 18 Sep 2018, 15:25, edited 2 times in total.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 18 Sep 2018, 15:24

SabenaForever wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 12:00
sn26567 wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 11:32
Brussels Airlines invests further in its Africa network, and axes Mumbai (which should be reached via FRA, MUC or ZRH with LH and LX, so decides the boss! One less intercontinental destination for BRU).

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... es-mumbai/
So Lufthansa is doing is job in BRU... Axes Mumbai.. i can not believe that a direct flight to India will not work, with the large Indian community and the Diamant sector. Business people don’t want to fly 1stop... i see a lot of passengers go to India via AMS. And sorry again No new destination to Africa.

You would be surprised the Indian community in Antwerp love to fly with Swiss even when Jet was still flying to Brussels.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

ironspan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by ironspan » 18 Sep 2018, 15:33

Stij wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 15:02
Airbus330lover wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 13:42

And LH thinks that most of the belgians will go to DUS to take a plane
Actually, my friends in Limburg are so fed up with the traffic jams on their way to BRU and the possible queue's at security and border controll they're flying from DUS anyway.

Cheers,

Stij
Finally a reality check.
Although some political parties still claim that everybody should fly from BRU (and close ANR for example), fact is that it departing from BRU is becoming a nightmare. Last week I had a flight to Madrid at 09.40AM, all security lines were completely full (even standing outside the rope barrier area). I was using the ‘fast lane’, but queuing started even before the ‘fast lane’-gate. Once passed security, there was a queuing line for passport control (I was lucky going intra Schengen) from the passport control area till the other side of the connector (maybe 2000 people?). And then I did not mention the traffic jam on the E19 (more than 1hr from Antwerp). Tomorrow flying to Rome, next week to New York, I am already getting excited👹.
I would love to leave from ANR...

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Inquirer » 18 Sep 2018, 15:41

Ironspan,
I know exactly the feeling!
Flying from DUS myself quite a lot these days: a little bit more miles, but exactly the same time loss, with the added benefit that it's much cheaper too (tickets as well as car park).
Looking at how people at my work fly, BRU seems to attract its customers predominantly from just the north and west of our country as they don't have a good alternative: everybody in the east has several good alternatives right across the Belgian border while I think much of the (leisure) market in the south is scooped empty by the airlines flying from CRL?
What does this say about BRU: it's the airport of choice of nobody in Belgium?!? :oops:
Time to do something about it I'd say and no, people aren't waiting for even more shops!
New and cheaper car parks, smooth public transport access from downtown Brussels and other cities in Belgium, faster ground processes and much lower user fees and taxes are urgently needed to turn BRU from a very high yielding equity investment for its institutional shareholders into a customer oriented user friendly airport again.
( sorry for gong off topic )
Last edited by Inquirer on 18 Sep 2018, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 18 Sep 2018, 15:55

If the revenu Brussels-Mumbai-Brussels would be positive, Lufthansa would have surely kept it. After all, they own Brussels Airlines. By putting Mumbai offline, they know they will loose most of the actual SN passengers to competition airlines that offer better rates.

Unfortunately, the yield is too low. Sure, there are a lot of Indian people working in the diamond trade. But they don't need to fly to Mumbai for their work. They work here. They live here. They only go on holiday or VFR every now and then. And for VFR traffica, their numbers are too small.

Furthermore, it's not an overnight decision. The problems with Mumbai were already mentionned by Lufthansa in their comments pages from the Brussels Airlines annual account 2017.

OO-ITR
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by OO-ITR » 18 Sep 2018, 16:41

luchtzak wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 14:34
Poiu wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 14:16
SabenaForever wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 12:00

So Lufthansa is doing is job in BRU... Axes Mumbai.. i can not believe that a direct flight to India will not work, with the large Indian community and the Diamant sector. Business people don’t want to fly 1stop... i see a lot of passengers go to India via AMS.
Do you believe for one second LH would axe a profit making route???
This is a pure business decision gentlemen, no more no less.
From the news item: Brussels Airlines’ Mumbai flights, which were launched in March 2017, will be stopped on January 6 for economic reasons, as the route does not deliver the anticipated results.
Really bad news :(((
What is next YYZ???

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 18 Sep 2018, 16:53

Why did Lufthansa then allowed Brussels Airlines to invest in a new route, in April 2017? After all, it was an investment that was important enough to be mentionned in the annual account: "... de opstart en de uitbouw van de Indische activiteiten en de Thomas Cook operaties hebben gewogen op de resultaten van 2017..."

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 18 Sep 2018, 17:40

Inquirer wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 15:41
Ironspan,
I know exactly the feeling!
Flying from DUS myself quite a lot these days: a little bit more miles, but exactly the same time loss, with the added benefit that it's much cheaper too (tickets as well as car park).
Looking at how people at my work fly, BRU seems to attract its customers predominantly from just the north and west of our country as they don't have a good alternative: everybody in the east has several good alternatives right across the Belgian border while I think much of the (leisure) market in the south is scooped empty by the airlines flying from CRL?
What does this say about BRU: it's the airport of choice of nobody in Belgium?!? :oops:
Time to do something about it I'd say and no, people aren't waiting for even more shops!
New and cheaper car parks, smooth public transport access from downtown Brussels and other cities in Belgium, faster ground processes and much lower user fees and taxes are urgently needed to turn BRU from a very high yielding equity investment for its institutional shareholders into a customer oriented user friendly airport again.
( sorry for gong off topic )
You can't just growing in Africa the pax needs to travel further most of the time.
If you cut the US flights you will lose a lot of transit pax.
You can not compete with other airports if you can not offer connectivity!!!!
On AF from Luanda for example you have a lot of transit pax to the U.S.(Houston) and Moscow non of the two are possible with Brussels Airlines!
But with Lufhansa you can and there are bigger than Brussels Airlines in Luanda after only a couple of years.
If you now that Brussels is in Luanda for more than 30 years and they did not grow ....they even fly with smaller planes in the past they use to fly with 747s(SABENA)
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 » 18 Sep 2018, 18:56

SabenaForever wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 12:00
sn26567 wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 11:32
Brussels Airlines invests further in its Africa network, and axes Mumbai (which should be reached via FRA, MUC or ZRH with LH and LX, so decides the boss! One less intercontinental destination for BRU).

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... es-mumbai/
So Lufthansa is doing is job in BRU... Axes Mumbai.. i can not believe that a direct flight to India will not work, with the large Indian community and the Diamant sector. Business people don’t want to fly 1stop... i see a lot of passengers go to India via AMS. And sorry again No new destination to Africa.
My statement might have been premature. I talked to Frédéric Paepe, the SN Director of Flight Operations this afternoon. LH didn't decide anything. SN took the decision independently: the BOM route has never been profitable.

On the other hand, Paepe said that the three North American destinations (IAD, JFK, YYZ) are faring well.
André
ex Sabena #26567

brabel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by brabel » 18 Sep 2018, 21:20

sn26567 wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 18:56
On the other hand, Paepe said that the three North American destinations (IAD, JFK, YYZ) are faring well.
So IAD year round then? :)

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair » 18 Sep 2018, 22:37

Contrary to what their PR is saying, there is no change for the Dakar pax: the daily flight is already non-stop in both directions. The only change is that there will be 3 flights/week with no further destination (Banjul), adding some capacity on the route. I guess the Conakry flights will become an extension of the 3 new Banjul flights then.
That makes 3 new flights replacing the 5 Mumbai flights. As said above, no other frequency increase and no new Afi destination announced.

On the short-haul, the total addition (compared to last winter season I suppose) is 2 flights a day. As they say in the US: nothing to write home about.
But, granted, this follows a big expansion with the Thomas Cook agreement.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Passenger » 18 Sep 2018, 22:55

convair wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:37
Contrary to what their PR is saying, there is no change for the Dakar pax: the daily flight is already non-stop in both directions. The only change is that there will be 3 flights/week with no further destination (Banjul), adding some capacity on the route. I guess the Conakry flights will become an extension of the 3 new Banjul flights then.
That makes 3 new flights replacing the 5 Mumbai flights. As said above, no other frequency increase and no new Afi destination announced.

On the short-haul, the total addition (compared to last winter season I suppose) is 2 flights a day. As they say in the US: nothing to write home about.
But, granted, this follows a big expansion with the Thomas Cook agreement.
Funny. You are contradicting these facts and figures:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... es-mumbai/
and
https://press.brusselsairlines.com/brus ... a-network#

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba » 18 Sep 2018, 23:15

Passenger wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:55
convair wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:37
Contrary to what their PR is saying, there is no change for the Dakar pax: the daily flight is already non-stop in both directions. The only change is that there will be 3 flights/week with no further destination (Banjul), adding some capacity on the route. I guess the Conakry flights will become an extension of the 3 new Banjul flights then.
That makes 3 new flights replacing the 5 Mumbai flights. As said above, no other frequency increase and no new Afi destination announced.

On the short-haul, the total addition (compared to last winter season I suppose) is 2 flights a day. As they say in the US: nothing to write home about.
But, granted, this follows a big expansion with the Thomas Cook agreement.
Funny. You are contradicting these facts and figures:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/luft ... es-mumbai/
and
https://press.brusselsairlines.com/brus ... a-network#
These are triangular flights isn't it?!?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Darjeeling » 19 Sep 2018, 09:57

convair wrote:
18 Sep 2018, 22:37
Contrary to what their PR is saying, there is no change for the Dakar pax: the daily flight is already non-stop in both directions. The only change is that there will be 3 flights/week with no further destination (Banjul), adding some capacity on the route. I guess the Conakry flights will become an extension of the 3 new Banjul flights then.
That makes 3 new flights replacing the 5 Mumbai flights. As said above, no other frequency increase and no new Afi destination announced.

On the short-haul, the total addition (compared to last winter season I suppose) is 2 flights a day. As they say in the US: nothing to write home about.
But, granted, this follows a big expansion with the Thomas Cook agreement.
Indeed, beware, because Brussels Airlines communication departement is so strong at PR stunts they can issue sooner or later a press release because they add another frequency to Las Palmas or Rhodos and NON-STOP !!! :lol: :lol: :roll:

They cannot be serious... really... DKR or DSS have always been non-stop both ways since 2002. Although sometimes operated via CMN with the A319 when the Kings of Africa had to deal with two or three AOG of their A330 at the same time.

As to BOM: what I always predicted. Sometimes the flight was almost full, sometimes only 40 pax per flight for weeks, without saying hey often accommodated LH/OS/LX overbooked pax. But all in all lots of VFR traffic, thus low-yielding. And LX/LH funneling most of the high-yield J/C/W corporate pax. The forward bookings were not good for Q4 2018 / Q1 2019. :|

As we speak/write, JFK/YYZ and IAD will remain in SN's network.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by b.lufthansa » 19 Sep 2018, 18:13

More important news! “Big brother” Betty has left the building...

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