Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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luchtzak
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak »

They must be doing something right then ... Brussels Airport has been rewarded as overall winner: 2018 Marketing Award at the Routesonline 2018 awards.

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Congratulations to the Overall Winners at the #RoutesEurope 2018 Marketing Awards - @BrusselsAirport - congratulations again!
The winner of the Over 20 Million category at the #RoutesEurope 2018 Marketing Awards is... @BrusselsAirport - congratulations!

Jetter
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Jetter »

Atlantis wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 22:52That you have to get through the shops is a worldwide phenomenon. I really don't understand why you and others are pointing the BRU management of this? It is like they are the only ones on this whole earth who are doing this.
Worldwide, doesn't matter if you arrive or depart, they lead you all through tax free shops.
'All' is blatantly false. They all let you pass shops, but more often than not you aren't forced to walk through them as at BRU. Which shop are you forced to walk through in AMS i.e.?

Passenger
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

For every single airport in the world (except perhaps in North Korea), shops are part of the business plan. Even at Amsterdam Airport. And that's fine for me, as long as their sales guys (m/f) leave me alone.

Just look at AMS's official website how important it is:
https://www.schiphol.nl/en/

Horizontal navigation:
Flights - Park - Shop & Dine - More

Vertical navigation:
Departures
Arrival
Transport and Car rental
Shop, Eat and drink

AMS website.jpg

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sn26567
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 »

Ansett wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 07:05
And did you see the article in De Standaard, today ?
It's too long to translate for those who don't understand Dutch.
In short : the airport is making increasing profits for their shareholders.
Macquarie is selling its 36 % shares (shall we organize a crowd-funding ?)
And the last sentence is very interesting :
"A lot of money is being made at the airport, but the users are grumbling".

https://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaa ... 04681.html
A good summary in English: https://www.aviation24.be/airports/bruss ... ort-stake/
André
ex Sabena #26567

Stij
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Stij »

The whole shopping discussion has become pretty futile to me: it ain't going to change.

Also the buildings: the outside is in a dilapidated state, but I think Brussels Airport knows this and has some ideas to fix it and I can accept it takes time.

But what really bothers me are the delays at immigration and at security checks.

And it IS Brussels Airport's problem and they should fix it with their partners.

One almost starts to think it's on purpose so people will come early to the airport because they don't know if there will be a queue or not and as most of the time there isn't one, they have all the time to spend their money out of boredom.

Stij

sean1982
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sean1982 »

Stij wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 09:33 The whole shopping discussion has become pretty futile to me: it ain't going to change.

Also the buildings: the outside is in a dilapidated state, but I think Brussels Airport knows this and has some ideas to fix it and I can accept it takes time.

But what really bothers me are the delays at immigration and at security checks.

And it IS Brussels Airport's problem and they should fix it with their partners.

One almost starts to think it's on purpose so people will come early to the airport because they don't know if there will be a queue or not and as most of the time there isn't one, they have all the time to spend their money out of boredom.

Stij

Totally agree. I don't think anyone expects an airport like singapore changi with a forest and a waterfall inside. I don't, however, find it acceptable that it takes 1.5 hours to get from the plane to the curb or the other way around. That is pure lack of respect for the customer.

They spend so much money on getting A380 ready. Imagine this A380 arriving together with a B787 from TUI and an A330 from Turkish. You'd spend a good 3 hours to get through :roll:

Stij
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Stij »

Flying Scout wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 11:02 Then I must be very lucky. Last time it took me about 10 minutes from arrival in the trainstation to the gate. Handluggage only for a shengen flight) and about 15 min from arrival into the terminal to the trainstaion including pickup of Luggage.

The longest it took was about 1,5 hour when the connector wasn't yet build and had a flight to the US of A.

But then again I only use BRU for about 10 times a year.
I agree, it's what I wrote: most of the times there isn't a line at all
But then, on a normal day, suddenly there's one... strange..

Stij

JOVAN
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Atlantis wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 20:29
Conti764 wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 18:27

BRU was public, many years ago. And it was a mess.

The state is now nothing but a shareholder, and a minor one if I'm correct.
Hi Conti764,

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan has 39% of the shares, Macquarie has still 36% (They came from 75%), and the Belgian State has 25%

Atlantis
Time to buy back the Macquarie shares and keep the majority in Belgian hands.
A strategic place like BRU should be in hands of the state ( like Schiphol) and to the benefit of the population and PAX.

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lumumba
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by lumumba »

JOVAN wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 12:09
Atlantis wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 20:29
Conti764 wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 18:27

BRU was public, many years ago. And it was a mess.

The state is now nothing but a shareholder, and a minor one if I'm correct.
Hi Conti764,

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan has 39% of the shares, Macquarie has still 36% (They came from 75%), and the Belgian State has 25%

Atlantis
Time to buy back the Macquarie shares and keep the majority in Belgian hands.
A strategic place like BRU should be in hands of the state ( like Schiphol) and to the benefit of the population and PAX.
I'm agree and it's a good investment to...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 »

lumumba wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 15:38
JOVAN wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 12:09
Atlantis wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 20:29

Hi Conti764,

Ontario Teachers Pension Plan has 39% of the shares, Macquarie has still 36% (They came from 75%), and the Belgian State has 25%

Atlantis
Time to buy back the Macquarie shares and keep the majority in Belgian hands.
A strategic place like BRU should be in hands of the state ( like Schiphol) and to the benefit of the population and PAX.
I'm agree and it's a good investment to...
... as long as politicians don't meddle in the management of the airport. I still can't understand why the Chairman of the Board of the only national airport is a politician from a party whose goal is the end of Belgium.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Tompompier
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Tompompier »

convair wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 20:31
Sai wrote: 23 Apr 2018, 12:16
Poiu wrote: 22 Apr 2018, 00:38 - the shops: are they really needed? They are always empty, I honestly don’t understand how they can be profitable. Do you have to force people to walk through the shops? I use BRU 50 times a year and have never seen an arriving passenger entering a shop.
You would be surprised...They often seem empty to me too, but airport shops generate the most revenue/sq.meter and some times generate more revenue than a shop in a high profile shopping street. That's why it's important for some brands to have an airport shop.

Did you know that the shop that sells the most chocolate in the world (2,35 tons/day!) is located in BRU. source (Dutch).

According to this intresting article in The Economist around 20% of non-aeronautical revenues for airports in Europe come from these retail shops since most airports are (partly) privatised in the West.

The financing of airports relies upon two broad streams: aeronautical revenues from airlines and passenger charges; and commercial revenues from other activities at the airport.
According to this study, an average of 40.4% of global airport revenues derive from such commercial revenues. Of these, duty free and travel retail are usually the most important source of income. Larger airports are able to leverage these revenues to generate the highest levels of retail revenues per passenger, which effectively cover up to 80% of their profit margins.
So a very important source of income.

The article in The Economist also mentions reasons why numbers could drop/are dropping such as e.g longer security checks/passport control...something for BRU to keep in mind if I read some experiences here ;)
I know shops are an important source of revenue for an airport and I don't mind if there are a few of them; I even use them occasionnally. But untill a few years ago they were located alongside the pax route.

What I consider unacceptable, though, is the fact that I MUST go through them in order to reach the gates; it is the demonstration that big business and the airport management consider that the pax are their slaves and that consumption has become the prominent function of every citizen. And I will continue to complain about that.

OMG.... man, in 25 seconds you are through the shops... the walk around is the same, is it that kind of drama?

Jetter
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Jetter »

Stij wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 12:06I agree, it's what I wrote: most of the times there isn't a line at all
But then, on a normal day, suddenly there's one... strange..
One thing BRU could easily implement to help passengers is give actual information about waiting times. Like this i.e.
Image

Shengenzone
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Shengenzone »

Jetter wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 18:57
Stij wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 12:06I agree, it's what I wrote: most of the times there isn't a line at all
But then, on a normal day, suddenly there's one... strange..
One thing BRU could easily implement to help passengers is give actual information about waiting times. Like this i.e.
Image
Bru used to have that... 10 years ago their where big displays in each pier with the estimated waiting time...
But now that it is a combined security point not anymore...

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Vic Diesel
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Vic Diesel »

I was thinking whether I should participate in this discussion or not. Alas, as a passenger often having flown to and from BRU (and a planespotter using airport facilities to get some nice pics), I can only offer you my personal opinion from the pax' side (with an occasional insight offered by some of my friends working in the aviation industry):

I think that the new safety measures introduced after the terror attacks did nothing to get BRU more attrtactive: think about all the restrictions on entering or leaving the building, the relocation of the kiss-and-fly-zone from departures level to the area behind the bus station or the longer ways you have to go coming from the train station. This of course - together with the damage caused by the bombing - did leave kind of a mess behind that had to be sorted out.

Getting to/from BRU to/from Brussels became better during the last years: the new train service to Schuman is certainly a huge step for all Eurocrats coming for business meetings. Bus services by MIVB/STIB are a cheaper alternative but all too often you are confronted with less than motivated bus drivers, busses suddenly stopping at the Eurocontrol stop and announcing you have to change to the next (and already packed) bus, intervals of more than 20 minutes in the early evening hours when busses arriving at BRU suddenly go to "geen dienst" mode, leaving a hundred paxes waiting at the stop. So if you don't want to get a really bad first impression about work attitude, take the train instead.

The departures hall is well organised and with the introduction of the self-drop-off counters, things can get quicker. Of course you have to take into account the factor that all too often turns out to be the worst on an airport: passengers. This is something I witnessed on several airports on four continents myself: once arriving at an airport, some people suddenly turn into a helpless, disorientated and frightened little something. They are not able to read direction signs, don't understand clear instructions by machines (even if they are helped by pictograms!)... so no matter what an airport does, there still always be people complaining they can't find their gate (albeit standing right in front of it). And no, this is no disparagement of people, but a fact already researched by psychologists.

Security controls got a lot better since the opening of the Connector – before, it was a dreadful experience of long queueing up in the “basement”. Now, with one common security checkpoint, it is much better. Of course it can be improved even further by opening up new queues quicker should the overall waiting time become longer – but first this is the responsibility of the company conducting the security checks (I guess a sub-contractor) and second: queues at security checkpoints are nothing unique “BRUsseloise”: just look over the German border.

Duty free shops: well, complaining about the mandatory passing-through is a bit… “unique” (to stay polite), as this is a common practice at airports (at least in Europe) and is only not done by those airports where this cannot be organised by lack of space. You go in, you pass through – that’s it. Until you don’t get harassed by pushy employees (and at BRU I really NEVER experienced this!), this should be no problem. For the other shops: frequently commuting between my hometown and Brussels, I bought some items every time I’ve been to Brussels on a business trip. In times of safety issues, buying some decorative bottles of nice Belgian beer is the only way to get them on the airplane if you travel only with hand luggage. I also managed to buy at Samsonite and some fashion shops upon arrival – so I am one of those passengers that must be invisible by entering the shops as someone stated that nobody was in there and certainly no arriving paxes were buying anything at the airport.

Never been at Terminal B, I certainly cannot say anything about that old building (except that it looks very recognizable on “lounge-spotting pictures”) – but I must say that I really like Terminal A: very wide, four parallel moving walkways – and a lounge that is, albeit usually quite full during weekday afternoon, is a very comfortable and well-sorted facility. This is where proud-five-stars-holder Lufthansa can still learn a lot…

One thing I never experienced were long intervals of waiting for my luggage. After arriving from Terminal A, there was never more than 5 minutes I had to wait until the conveyor belt started to move.

The arrival hall… well, it is no beauty, for sure. The supermarket is a nice asset, but on the other hand, getting no warm food before 11:00 is next to ridiculous. And it feels cramped and too small. However, I can imagine it must be difficult to extend its size, due to the surrounding buildings.

Overall, I think that while there is certainly room for improvement, BRU is not as dreadful and terrible as some people describe it. At least, if you visited some airports in- and outside of Europe, you cannot seriously think of BRU as being sub-standard. Is it outstanding? No. Is it “really bad”? Neither.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 24 Apr 2018, 15:54 ... as long as politicians don't meddle in the management of the airport. I still can't understand why the Chairman of the Board of the only national airport is a politician from a party whose goal is the end of Belgium.
Marc Descheemaeker was already a member of the Board at Brussels Airport Company since 1998. And contrary to his precessor, he knows what he's talking about, thanks to his university grade in Economics and his field experience in different transport companies. We should be grateful that we have politicians with a high grade of business experience to take up positions that used to be a bonus for party friends.

Regarding "a party whose goal is the end of Belgium": as long as the N-VA is not coming close to 51% of the seats in the Flemish Parliament, you don't have to worry too much. And with the Catalunia drama in mind, they won't declare independence with just 51% support.

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sean1982 »

Zucht :roll: .... 45 min

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sean1982 »

I actually tweeted BRU and they opened the e-gates after my tweet, which infuriates me even more as that means there was no valid reason for them to be closed in the first place :roll:

JOVAN
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

with the repeated chaos in Amsterdam Schiphol, due to the overwhelming success of the airport and the many destination, plus the many Dutch travellers and foreign toursists, it in difficult to understand why BRU management is not organizing better to take a part of that market.

Making BRU an attractive alternative , the second airport of Benelux, with easy and regular, and frequent train and bus connections, maybe flight to Groningen etc..the chances are huge to take a part of that enormous pie.

Can't help to find BRU management slow, conservative,..

Attracting more flights to USA, Latam with the enormous number of Americans and Latinos now travelling to 'old' Europe...

Should be a huge opportunity.
I wonder if there is a plan for that ??
i am afraid not....

Boavida
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Boavida »

Picture from 27 april, found on twitter. Apparently, passengers had to wait about 1,5 hours for passport check. This is getting ridiculous. Tweeting "it's not our fault, it's the federal police", does not solve anything for passengers. Action is needed.

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/BrusselsAirport/sta ... 8560849920

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sean1982 »

Boavida wrote: 30 Apr 2018, 12:14 Picture from 27 april, found on twitter. Apparently, passengers had to wait about 1,5 hours for passport check. This is getting ridiculous. Tweeting "it's not our fault, it's the federal police", does not solve anything for passengers. Action is needed.

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/BrusselsAirport/sta ... 8560849920
Standard BRU day then .... I'm starting to advise everyone to avoid as much as possible. Dusseldorf is about 40 min longer drive but cheaper in tax, parking and MUCH more customer friendly. If only BA would open ANR-LHR or something, you'd never ever see me at BRU again :lol:

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