Brussels Airlines in 2018

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nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

sn26567 wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 22:52
nordikcam wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 14:26
I obviously do not have official statistics ... but I have mine! In 2017 : 3 YYZ with SN of which 2 cancelled.
1 with AC and 1 with LH who were operated on. 6 with AF / KL that were operated too. If the grass is not greener, there is grass!
6 with AF/KL that were operated too? When they are not on strike: 5 days of strike in the current 15 days period. Very reliable indeed! I think that the grass has burned...
I see the strike problem with AF actually ...but in 2017 ( and I spoke about last year ) : no problem !
... and we have to compare comparable things! We can not compare strawberries and slippers or a company on strike with a company that is not. ;)

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba »

RoMax wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 20:39
convair wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 19:48
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 13:14
Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.
No doubt about that, but it's sad to see SN becoming a virtual airline on TAtl routes.
Let's not exaggerate either, the OTP is definitely not great and should be improved (nobody is denying that), but it's not like flying SN gives you an exponentially higher chance of having your flight cancelled.

Just some basic statistics from Flightstats for the latest available reference period (15Jan - 15Mar):
SN501: 0 cancelled, 1 diverted, 56% on time
SN502: 1 cancelled (2%), 74% on time

SN551: 2 cancelled (5%), 61% on time
SN552: 2 cancelled (5%), 84% on time

Some comparison from BRU:
DL43: 0 cancelled, 63% on time
DL42: 0 cancelled, 68% on time

UA998: 0 cancelled, 89% on time
UA999: 0 cancelled, 66% on time

AC833: 0 cancelled, 58% on time
AC832: 0 cancelled, 67% on time

UA951: 0 cancelled, 74% on time
UA950: 0 cancelled, 73% on time

So yes the amount of cancellations is clearly higher and the on time performance out of BRU is bad, but it's not that much out of the ordinary either when comparing with other BRU TATL flights. Ok I admit this is just a few months, but it still gives an idea.

The fleet is being renewed and in the meantime this summer there will be more back-up capacity thanks to OO-SFC. That doesn't mean the work is done, but at least its ongoing.
This numbers looks bad to me ....And this is the reality.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

lumumba wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 00:31
This numbers looks bad to me ....And this is the reality.
Except the cancellations, the on time performance is not quite worse than e.g. DL on JFK (except ex-BRU which is a little better for DL) and on YYZ it's beter than AC on YUL.

Of course this is a simplistic comparison, but that seems to be the standard here anyway.

When it comes to the cancellations, well I'm not even going to try anymore. Well first we should know the reason, it doesn't necessarily mean it was an AOG. Besides that, yes the % of cancellations at SN is probably a bit higher than many other larger competitors (it has always been like that) for a number of reasons, the aged long haul fleet is just part of it. Again, nobody is denying that it's about time that they'll be replaced soon. But it's unnecessary to claim here that it's standard practice at SN to have 1-2 cancelled long haul flights/day.

Even on YYZ, which seems to be the worst, it's 'just' 5% of the flights in the mentioned period. Obviously that's at least 4% too much, but it's not the drama that some are making of it here. Especially not for an airline with the fleet size of SN, having very little back-up capacity in the widebody fleet as that's way too expensive for such a small fleet.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Jetter »

RoMax wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 01:17
Except the cancellations, the on time performance is not quite worse than e.g. DL on JFK (except ex-BRU which is a little better for DL) and on YYZ it's beter than AC on YUL.
That begs the question whether something is seriously wrong at BRU. SN's on time performance is already way below the European average, and if other l/h carriers do even worse that's remarkable. Is that a coincidence or does operating at BRU impede on time performance?

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by JustPlanes »

One thing to keep in mind... the weather and delays here in the Northeast US have been pretty bad in the last couple of months with many delays, diversions and cancellations... We had 4 major Noreasters in 2 weeks which I've never seen before... once those hit forget about it... and airlines like UA/DL live from connections at JFK and EWR so flights are rarely on time...

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

RoMax wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 01:17
lumumba wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 00:31
This numbers looks bad to me ....And this is the reality.
Except the cancellations, the on time performance is not quite worse than e.g. DL on JFK (except ex-BRU which is a little better for DL) and on YYZ it's beter than AC on YUL.

Of course this is a simplistic comparison, but that seems to be the standard here anyway.

When it comes to the cancellations, well I'm not even going to try anymore. Well first we should know the reason, it doesn't necessarily mean it was an AOG. Besides that, yes the % of cancellations at SN is probably a bit higher than many other larger competitors (it has always been like that) for a number of reasons, the aged long haul fleet is just part of it. Again, nobody is denying that it's about time that they'll be replaced soon. But it's unnecessary to claim here that it's standard practice at SN to have 1-2 cancelled long haul flights/day.

Even on YYZ, which seems to be the worst, it's 'just' 5% of the flights in the mentioned period. Obviously that's at least 4% too much, but it's not the drama that some are making of it here. Especially not for an airline with the fleet size of SN, having very little back-up capacity in the widebody fleet as that's way too expensive for such a small fleet.
I therefore share this analysis and if I take it in detail I draw conclusions.
SN cancels more often than others, especially on YYZ, which seems to be the destination that works the worst, even if I do not make a drama of what is common in aviation. A commercial aviation exchange site remains a trading site for commercial aviation.
I continue, SN's long-haul fleet is too small for it to react otherwise than by canceling and it is unclear whether the delays on YYZ and JFK are due to SN or BRU. As a typical passenger flying 20 x 2 times a year on the North Atlantic (YYZ - YVR - LAX) I no longer have to take SN, which I do, and have to leave another airport, which I do (CDG -AMS) to avoid being sent to MUC or FRA to go back to the West and I have to fly with a long-haul company that has planes in reserve to assume the schedule of flights (AF / KL).
I have actually drawn the conclusions of SN's long haul, fly with them on Europe where the problem is not significant ... and enjoying Brussels airlines as I was able to appreciate the Sabena, I regret this situation and hope that Lufthansa will remedy this situation without longing for SN's long haul in Germany - I am afraid it will be - and leaving room for others to rush on the BRU tarmac! And I'm surprised, but it does not spoil my weekend, that SN can do without these few transatlantic annual paid by me or my company!

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

RoMax wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 20:39
Just some basic statistics from Flightstats for the latest available reference period (15Jan - 15Mar):
SN501: 0 cancelled, 1 diverted, 56% on time
SN502: 1 cancelled (2%), 74% on time

SN551: 2 cancelled (5%), 61% on time
SN552: 2 cancelled (5%), 84% on time

Some comparison from BRU:
DL43: 0 cancelled, 63% on time
DL42: 0 cancelled, 68% on time

UA998: 0 cancelled, 89% on time
UA999: 0 cancelled, 66% on time

AC833: 0 cancelled, 58% on time
AC832: 0 cancelled, 67% on time

UA951: 0 cancelled, 74% on time
UA950: 0 cancelled, 73% on time

So yes the amount of cancellations is clearly higher and the on time performance out of BRU is bad, but it's not that much out of the ordinary either when comparing with other BRU TATL flights. Ok I admit this is just a few months, but it still gives an idea.

The fleet is being renewed and in the meantime this summer there will be more back-up capacity thanks to OO-SFC. That doesn't mean the work is done, but at least its ongoing.
Sorry I can't be as positive as you are on this RoMax, but these stats are obviously wrong, at least for SN501.

Since I saw the NYC weather problems early January, I took some notes from mid-January, i.e. after the NYC weather episode:

From Jan 16 till Feb 6, SN501, which is supposed to be a daily flight, seems to have been de-programmed every Tuesday, i.e. 4 times, + cancellation on Feb 3.
Other cancellations/de-programming: Feb 21, March 2, March 7, March 21, April 1.

That makes a total of 10 within 10 weeks (14%!) for a supposedly daily flight. Awful! :(

Not to mention 10+ flights cancelled/postponed to Afi destinations. :(

As you seem to have good sources and maybe inside information, you can easily get confirmation of this.

Fortunately :mrgreen:, Kabila has reduced their frequency to FIH, allowing them to use their planes to other destinations! :mrgreen: ;)

The SN people are doing an excellent job, I'm sure, but they must be completely disouraged by the way LH is treating them and their company!

You (and H.A. I think) mentioned the cost of cancelling l/h flights. Today, SN is losing money on european feeder flights in order to bring pax to BRU or elsewhere for other companies who make (some) butter on l/h, simply because mother Lufty doesn't allow them to operate as a "normal" airline. And then, LH will tell them they are not profitable! Crazy isn't it?

SN should wet-lease both Air Belgium's 340s as of today. If not needed, they can replace the 2 or 3 SN frequencies to Malaga, or Barcelona or Las Palmas or Tenerife or Hurghada or Marsa Alam.. ;) .

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

convair wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 13:05
From Jan 16 till Feb 6, SN501, which is supposed to be a daily flight, seems to have been de-programmed every Tuesday, i.e. 4 times, + cancellation on Feb 3.
Other cancellations/de-programming: Feb 21, March 2, March 7, March 21, April 1.

That makes a total of 10 within 10 weeks (14%!) for a supposedly daily flight. Awful! :(
The winter schedule of JFK included from the very beginning a downgrade to 6/week from 15jan to 11feb and again in the week of 19feb to 25feb (no flight on Tuesday indeed). These flights have never been sold and as such are not to be considered as cancellations or de-programming at all!
The last 2 cancellations are not part of the latest available Flightstats reference period until 15/03 so indeed those were not included. But anyway, flightstats is a public tool provided by Flightglobal, doesn't mean it's 100% accurate, but it's definitely valuable.

For BRU-JFK from another source:
January: 28 planned, 26 operated
February: 26 planned, 25 operated
March (until the 29th): 29 planned, 26 operated

Definitely not great statistics, but not the disaster that some make of it, sorry.

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Darjeeling »

One must wonder : what does OO-SFB do for Eurowings ??

SN is in desperate need of a proper "new" A330 with full cargo capacity, and this plane is sent to EW to send german tourists to Palma de Mallorca...

Why don't they (EW) take OO-SFM for this purpose ? It even has the same engines as the A330-200 they operate and just completed a full c-check in LH Malta.

Don't come and tell me that it's due to the Cathay cabin, I think SN customers will "undergo" the Cathay cabin with much pleasure. They will still prefer it compared to EuroAtlantic or Wamos...

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by crew1990 »

Darjeeling wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 14:26
One must wonder : what does OO-SFB do for Eurowings ??

SN is in desperate need of a proper "new" A330 with full cargo capacity, and this plane is sent to EW to send german tourists to Palma de Mallorca...
OO-SFB is not flying to PMI for the moment but it will fly indeed for Eurowings at a later stage to Miami and Fort Mayer.

The A340 is operating to PMI and VIE for training purpose of the cabin crew and pilots before the launch of the real operation (New York, Punta Cana and Cancun). Like Air France did with the A380 to LHR, the 787 to LHR and LYS, or the 777 of Swiss to VIE, TXL and HAJ. This is something common when operating a new aircraft in a fleet.
Darjeeling wrote:
02 Apr 2018, 14:26
Why don't they (EW) take OO-SFM for this purpose ? It even has the same engines as the A330-200 they operate and just completed a full c-check in LH Malta.

Don't come and tell me that it's due to the Cathay cabin, I think SN customers will "undergo" the Cathay cabin with much pleasure. They will still prefer it compared to EuroAtlantic or Wamos...
Because there is no need to send an A330 there as the Eurowings crews made their training flight out of BRU to Dakar/Banjul/Conacry and Douala/Yaounde rotations. They are already qualified for the A330
Last edited by crew1990 on 02 Apr 2018, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Yuqu12 »

If the OO-SFB isn't active at the moment, why can't it stay in BRU for when the one of the older is AOG untill it goes to DUS?

Bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bralo20 »

Yuqu12 wrote:
03 Apr 2018, 16:01
If the OO-SFB isn't active at the moment, why can't it stay in BRU for when the one of the older is AOG untill it goes to DUS?
Isn't she in the paint shop getting the EW livery?

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Vic Diesel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Vic Diesel »

Just saw OO-SNL scheduled for a flight this afternoon. How long has it been already in the fleet registry?
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, working in Brussels)

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by luchtzak »

Vic Diesel wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 11:10
Just saw OO-SNL scheduled for a flight this afternoon. How long has it been already in the fleet registry?
Av24.be google search is your friend ;-)

viewtopic.php?p=363056#p363056

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Vic Diesel
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Vic Diesel »

luchtzak wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 12:48
Vic Diesel wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 11:10
Just saw OO-SNL scheduled for a flight this afternoon. How long has it been already in the fleet registry?
Av24.be google search is your friend ;-)

viewtopic.php?p=363056#p363056
Thanks! Ex-AB sounds indeed bad: dreadful seat pitch, somber interior colours. OS acquired a few of them as well (registered OE-LX*) and I already had the misfortune of flying on them... :/
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, working in Brussels)

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by crew1990 »

Vic Diesel wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 15:16
luchtzak wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 12:48
Vic Diesel wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 11:10
Just saw OO-SNL scheduled for a flight this afternoon. How long has it been already in the fleet registry?
Av24.be google search is your friend ;-)

viewtopic.php?p=363056#p363056
Thanks! Ex-AB sounds indeed bad: dreadful seat pitch, somber interior colours. OS acquired a few of them as well (registered OE-LX*) and I already had the misfortune of flying on them... :/
This is not the first ex-AB joining the fleet

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Ansett »

Perhaps a stupid question (maybe I missed something) : why are ex-AB planes going to SN and not to EW ?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Ansett wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 23:29
Perhaps a stupid question (maybe I missed something) : why are ex-AB planes going to SN and not to EW ?
EW got many ex-AB aircraft, hence why not a couple for SN?
André
ex Sabena #26567

convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

sn26567 wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 23:46
Ansett wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 23:29
Perhaps a stupid question (maybe I missed something) : why are ex-AB planes going to SN and not to EW ?
EW got many ex-AB aircraft, hence why not a couple for SN?
I believe A, B, C and D (all with special livery now) are ex-AB.

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by TLspotting »

IMG_20180407_100443.jpg
OO-SFB has been repainted in EWG colours...
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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