Brussels Airlines in 2018

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

nordikcam wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 10:30
nordikcam wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 12:56
And we left for a New Festival of SN l/h cancellations ... today Accra and Lomé moved to tomorrow ... tomorrow Toronto moved or not ... scary! The new CEO does not just have the work to do ( pain sur la planche ) , but the whole bakery!-+
Ouch ! It's not only the YYZ flight to be cancelled. The JFK too ! 25% of SN l/h flights cancelled today ! Welcome Mrs the new CEO...maybe is it a joke beacause 1 of April ?? :roll:
SFM : (back yesterday from Hahn), in flight, SN205 to DSS
SFZ : in flight, SN359 to LAD
SFY : in flight, SN371 to DLA
SFX : in flight, SN455 to BJM
SFT : in flight, SN515 to IAD
SFU : in flight, SN601 to BOM
SFO : in flight, SN1277 to ACC
SFW : in flight, SN285 to ABJ
SFN : in flight, SN241 to ROB

I count 9 chicks operating.

SFV seems u/s. She came back yesterday morning 31MAR but had no flight planned. Seemed unable to resume ops and declared u/s this early morning, JFK cancelled.

Bad news for those Pax whose flight was cancelled today but 25% of the fleet out is incorrect statement.

H.A.

nordikcam
Posts: 1052
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 12:39
nordikcam wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 10:30
nordikcam wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 12:56
And we left for a New Festival of SN l/h cancellations ... today Accra and Lomé moved to tomorrow ... tomorrow Toronto moved or not ... scary! The new CEO does not just have the work to do ( pain sur la planche ) , but the whole bakery!-+
Ouch ! It's not only the YYZ flight to be cancelled. The JFK too ! 25% of SN l/h flights cancelled today ! Welcome Mrs the new CEO...maybe is it a joke beacause 1 of April ?? :roll:
SFM : (back yesterday from Hahn), in flight, SN205 to DSS
SFZ : in flight, SN359 to LAD
SFY : in flight, SN371 to DLA
SFX : in flight, SN455 to BJM
SFT : in flight, SN515 to IAD
SFU : in flight, SN601 to BOM
SFO : in flight, SN1277 to ACC
SFW : in flight, SN285 to ABJ
SFN : in flight, SN241 to ROB

I count 9 chicks operating.

SFV seems u/s. She came back yesterday morning 31MAR but had no flight planned. Seemed unable to resume ops and declared u/s this early morning, JFK cancelled.

Bad news for those Pax whose flight was cancelled today but 25% of the fleet out is incorrect statement.

H.A.
You're right. 2 cancelled l/h flights YYZ and JFK on 9 l/h flights it's only 22,22 % and not 25% ! Sorry !

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1780
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 12:39
nordikcam wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 10:30
nordikcam wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 12:56
And we left for a New Festival of SN l/h cancellations ... today Accra and Lomé moved to tomorrow ... tomorrow Toronto moved or not ... scary! The new CEO does not just have the work to do ( pain sur la planche ) , but the whole bakery!-+
Ouch ! It's not only the YYZ flight to be cancelled. The JFK too ! 25% of SN l/h flights cancelled today ! Welcome Mrs the new CEO...maybe is it a joke beacause 1 of April ?? :roll:
SFM : (back yesterday from Hahn), in flight, SN205 to DSS
SFZ : in flight, SN359 to LAD
SFY : in flight, SN371 to DLA
SFX : in flight, SN455 to BJM
SFT : in flight, SN515 to IAD
SFU : in flight, SN601 to BOM
SFO : in flight, SN1277 to ACC
SFW : in flight, SN285 to ABJ
SFN : in flight, SN241 to ROB

I count 9 chicks operating.

SFV seems u/s. She came back yesterday morning 31MAR but had no flight planned. Seemed unable to resume ops and declared u/s this early morning, JFK cancelled.

Bad news for those Pax whose flight was cancelled today but 25% of the fleet out is incorrect statement.

H.A.
Ok it's not 25% it's 20% that's still very much....!!!!!
And yesterday also there was a flight cancelled!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1210
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Play with the numbers the ways you can be happy with, I'm not trying to convince you of anything here.

SN long haul fleet is made of 10 A/C if I'm not mistaken.
Today 9 are flying out of these 10.
And that is not good, indeed. But as said time and again, with such a small fleet the odds are against you to get them all up everyday.

Reason why there are TWO flights cancelled today and not only one, besides it gives you a chance to point it out, is because it seems that SN preferred to run ACC to rescue those Pax waiting there. Flight today is SN1277.
Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.

H.A.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1780
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by lumumba »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 13:14
Play with the numbers the ways you can be happy with, I'm not trying to convince you of anything here.

SN long haul fleet is made of 10 A/C if I'm not mistaken.
Today 9 are flying out of these 10.
And that is not good, indeed. But as said time and again, with such a small fleet the odds are against you to get them all up everyday.

Reason why there are TWO flights cancelled today and not only one, besides it gives you a chance to point it out, is because it seems that SN preferred to run ACC to rescue those Pax waiting there. Flight today is SN1277.
Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.

H.A.
I understand that but this numbers is like a strike day with AF it's big and recurrent for years now.

I repeat I LOVE BRUSSELS AIRLINES and I want them to be with the best because here in Belgium we have the people and the knowledge to do so.
When I see this numbers it's bad and it make me sad.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

nordikcam
Posts: 1052
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 13:14

Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.

H.A.
Yes of course ! All this is right.
SN needs to cancel a new flight a day because SN needs to ensure the canceled flight of the day before ... it's crazy. I'm sure the passengers are taken care of by the way by others, of course!
As I said, a passenger sent elsewhere stays elsewhere. As far as I'm concerned it's AF on Africa and the Atlantic tasting very little German services ...

Bel33
Posts: 134
Joined: 18 Feb 2012, 18:36

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Bel33 »

In the same time, the EW flight operated with SFM is not cancelled... Priority to Eurowings. Passengers of SN can wait...

airbuske
Posts: 1624
Joined: 09 Mar 2003, 00:00
Location: Brussels
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by airbuske »

Bel33 wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 14:42
In the same time, the EW flight operated with SFM is not cancelled... Priority to Eurowings. Passengers of SN can wait...
EW flight operated with SFM ?
SFM if flying to DSS/CKY
Best regards,

Airbuske

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 36585
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

airbuske wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 15:10
Bel33 wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 14:42
In the same time, the EW flight operated with SFM is not cancelled... Priority to Eurowings. Passengers of SN can wait...
EW flight operated with SFM ?
SFM if flying to DSS/CKY
It's SFC which is flying for EW, and it is idle (not flying) in FRA.
André
ex Sabena #26567

sean1982
Posts: 3252
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

Ansett wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 20:40
Jetter wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 16:04
Darjeeling wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 15:23
The state of some of SN's A330 is just appalling... You should see the mid-galley of OO-SFW (just when you enter via door 2), I'm sure even AFSCA/FAVV would not dare to approve and certificate what I've seen...
Amazing how an airline with planes like that can be a 'center of excellence'. :o
As I have said, I will believe it when I see it, this centre of excellence in Brussels.

But let's see thinks as they are today and let's say that SN is doing an excellent job with what LH is prepared to give them.
This center of excellence obviously has nothing to do with SN being experts at long haul. Quite foolish to believe theu would be better at it than LH itself. The only reason why (and possibly the only reason why LH chose to invest) is to outplay the german trade unions and (re-)employ people on inferior belgian contracts (in comparison to their old german one). Social dumping at its best

User avatar
RoMax
Posts: 4444
Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 16:32

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

sean1982 wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 15:19
and (re-)employ people on inferior belgian contracts (in comparison to their old german one).
They have German SN contracts and as far as I know nobody was forced to sign them.
And inferior? Well yeah, as most of them were previously contracted by an airline paying them too much and being unable to solve this issue which highly contributed to their bankruptcy.

sean1982
Posts: 3252
Joined: 18 Mar 2003, 00:00
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

RoMax wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 15:24
sean1982 wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 15:19
and (re-)employ people on inferior belgian contracts (in comparison to their old german one).
They have German SN contracts and as far as I know nobody was forced to sign them.
And inferior? Well yeah, as most of them were previously contracted by an airline paying them too much and being unable to solve this issue which highly contributed to their bankruptcy.
Nobody forces to sign indeed, however the direct entry pilot market for 330/340 pilots in Europe is small enough for it to be a knife on the throat. No need to sugarcoat it Romax. If they’d tried the same with LH crew, Germany would come to a standstill

User avatar
RoMax
Posts: 4444
Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 16:32

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

I'm not sugercoating it Sean, but calling it 'social dumping at its best' is just crazy.

It makes perfect sense for EW to keep their own operations 'clean' by only having short/medium haul operations under their own AOC('s) and rather make use of another fully owned subsidiary of the group which is also being integrated in the Eurowings Group which already has fully integrated long haul operations. Except being hired, trained and contracted by SN they work under German contracts and subject to German labour law without trying to dodge it (cannot be said about certain other companies in Europe having bases beyond the country where they are registered).

Why do you think other groups with LCC subsidiaries also try to keep their (LCC) long haul operations under separate subsidiaries - whether or not operating under the same brand.

Union conflicts in Germany are in the first place related to the fact that LH Group is trying to move towards a situation that eventually all short and medium haul operations will be under the Eurowings banner (even though that's not yet fully admitted).

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 36585
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Interview of Alain Vanalderweireldt, Chairman of BeCA (Belgian Cockpit Association), captain at DHL (a German company), about the future of Brussels Airlines: "When the decision centres are in Germany or in France, the sandwich rarely falls on the side of small countries". He thinks that the Brussels hub is endangered, despite the good health of African routes.
André
ex Sabena #26567

convair
Posts: 1811
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 13:14
Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.
No doubt about that, but it's sad to see SN becoming a virtual airline on TAtl routes.

convair
Posts: 1811
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by convair »

travellover wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 09:23
On the other hand, Bernard Gustin, for instance, said in an interview last December about the addition of the Saturday flight on BOM last winter, that the more frequencies there are for BOM and l/h network generally, the better it is.
I would tend to agree with that. A daily flight helps create an automatism with pax to choose an airline without having to wonder or double-check wether the flight they want is available on the days they need to travel; and if either their outbound or inbound flight is unavailable on the days they need them, they will tend to choose an alternate airline for the whole trip. You won't leave your car in BRU if you return through CDG.

Poiu
Posts: 822
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by Poiu »

RoMax wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 16:53
I'm not sugercoating it Sean, but calling it 'social dumping at its best' is just crazy.

It makes perfect sense for EW to keep their own operations 'clean' by only having short/medium haul operations under their own AOC('s) and rather make use of another fully owned subsidiary of the group which is also being integrated in the Eurowings Group which already has fully integrated long haul operations.

Why do you think other groups with LCC subsidiaries also try to keep their (LCC) long haul operations under separate subsidiaries - whether or not operating under the same brand.
RoMax, do you know the T&Cs for pilots in Europe? If yes, you do know the ones at EW are borderline insulting don’t you? Why do you think EW is struggling to recruit former Air Berlin pilots whilst Ryanair and easyJet are flooded with applications? If you don’t know the T&Cs, please don’t pretend you do.
EW can’t put the A340s on their own AOC without paying descent salaries according agreements with LH unions, that is the only reason SN operates the A340s.
Joon and Level are indeed constructions to employ crew on lower salaries just as SN for EW. For the same reason Alain Vanal fears that in the future SN crew will be forced to work for EW on lower TCs.

User avatar
RoMax
Posts: 4444
Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 16:32

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

convair wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 19:48
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 13:14
Pax bound to JFK and YYZ could probably be taken care of by other airlines.
No doubt about that, but it's sad to see SN becoming a virtual airline on TAtl routes.
Let's not exaggerate either, the OTP is definitely not great and should be improved (nobody is denying that), but it's not like flying SN gives you an exponentially higher chance of having your flight cancelled.

Just some basic statistics from Flightstats for the latest available reference period (15Jan - 15Mar):
SN501: 0 cancelled, 1 diverted, 56% on time
SN502: 1 cancelled (2%), 74% on time

SN551: 2 cancelled (5%), 61% on time
SN552: 2 cancelled (5%), 84% on time

Some comparison from BRU:
DL43: 0 cancelled, 63% on time
DL42: 0 cancelled, 68% on time

UA998: 0 cancelled, 89% on time
UA999: 0 cancelled, 66% on time

AC833: 0 cancelled, 58% on time
AC832: 0 cancelled, 67% on time

UA951: 0 cancelled, 74% on time
UA950: 0 cancelled, 73% on time

So yes the amount of cancellations is clearly higher and the on time performance out of BRU is bad, but it's not that much out of the ordinary either when comparing with other BRU TATL flights. Ok I admit this is just a few months, but it still gives an idea.

The fleet is being renewed and in the meantime this summer there will be more back-up capacity thanks to OO-SFC. That doesn't mean the work is done, but at least its ongoing.

User avatar
RoMax
Posts: 4444
Joined: 20 Jun 2009, 16:32

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by RoMax »

Poiu wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 20:38
RoMax, do you know the T&Cs for pilots in Europe? If yes, you do know the ones at EW are borderline insulting don’t you? Why do you think EW is struggling to recruit former Air Berlin pilots whilst Ryanair and easyJet are flooded with applications? If you don’t know the T&Cs, please don’t pretend you do.
EW can’t put the A340s on their own AOC without paying descent salaries according agreements with LH unions, that is the only reason SN operates the A340s.
As far as I know you're not saying anything which doesn't correspond to what I say. EW wants to keep its own internal ops/costs 'clean' by not having long haul ops on their own AOC's. Complexity and much higher labour costs as number 1 reasons. Besides, EW has enough ways to go around the LH collective work agreements. Eurowings Europe for example is not part of it and is already used to expand in Germany outside of the 'mainline EW'.
Poiu wrote:
01 Apr 2018, 20:38
Joon and Level are indeed constructions to employ crew on lower salaries just as SN for EW.
Joon is a bad example, their pilots work under the same contracts as when they worked directly for AF. Just the cabin crew earns 25% less. Another reason why I see Joon failing rather sooner than later.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 36585
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote:
31 Mar 2018, 14:26
I obviously do not have official statistics ... but I have mine! In 2017 : 3 YYZ with SN of which 2 cancelled.
1 with AC and 1 with LH who were operated on. 6 with AF / KL that were operated too. If the grass is not greener, there is grass!
6 with AF/KL that were operated too? When they are not on strike: 5 days of strike in the current 15 days period. Very reliable indeed! I think that the grass has burned...
André
ex Sabena #26567

Post Reply