Brussels Airport monthly traffic figures

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DannyVDB
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by DannyVDB » 23 Dec 2017, 09:07

travellover wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 14:15
Nice !
In 2017, BRU welcomed a total number of 23.056.066 passengers from January until november included.
In december 2016 there where 1.684.147 passengers transported.
As a projection, if an average increase of 5% is estimated on december 2016, BRU could welcome the account of 1.768.354 passengers in december 2017.
The whole year 2017 could end with an account of more of less 24.834.410 passengers.
I think at the end it will be less. November was around 5% growth but with the cancellations earlier in december I think the growth will be very modest for December. The fact that the 24th million passenger was only yesterday speaks. So I estimate there will be around 24.6 million pax overall unless they have very impressibe last days pax numbers ...

D

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by travellover » 23 Dec 2017, 12:18

DannyVDB wrote:
23 Dec 2017, 09:07
travellover wrote:
22 Dec 2017, 14:15
Nice !
In 2017, BRU welcomed a total number of 23.056.066 passengers from January until november included.
In december 2016 there where 1.684.147 passengers transported.
As a projection, if an average increase of 5% is estimated on december 2016, BRU could welcome the account of 1.768.354 passengers in december 2017.
The whole year 2017 could end with an account of more of less 24.834.410 passengers.
I think at the end it will be less. November was around 5% growth but with the cancellations earlier in december I think the growth will be very modest for December. The fact that the 24th million passenger was only yesterday speaks. So I estimate there will be around 24.6 million pax overall unless they have very impressibe last days pax numbers ...

D
Indeed :)
Cheers

JOVAN
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by JOVAN » 08 Jan 2018, 22:05

The figure of almost 24,8 mio PAX is great.

There is however a lot more potential to increase number of transfer PAX.
Now still weak: hardly over 2,2 mio.

See VIE : more than 6 mio.

Lets hope they work on it.

Flights to Hong Kng should also attract thousands of British PAX.
So SN connecting flights seem necassary (now very weak vs KLM and others)

Same for other destinations, Mumbai, Africa. US & UK PAX are numerous. A Part of this pie is essential for SN.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by Jetter » 08 Jan 2018, 22:30

JOVAN wrote:
08 Jan 2018, 22:05
There is however a lot more potential to increase number of transfer PAX.
Now still weak: hardly over 2,2 mio.

See VIE : more than 6 mio.

Lets hope they work on it.
Re VIE, that isn't a fair comparison as the 6 mio number are passengers on flights that are transferring, hence 2* the number of passangers transferring at the airport. The comparable number would thus be ~3 mio (still more than BRU).

The comparable number for AMS is ~13 mio. As the flights reached the cap this year there should be some potential.

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RoMax
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by RoMax » 08 Jan 2018, 23:03

You have to multiply the full transfer pax number by 2, only transit pax are counted only once as they don't take 2 seperate flights. So that's a bit more than 4.5mio in 2017 vs almost 6.5mio at VIE. Still less, but that's exactly my point here quite often that VIE is a bigger 'hub' than BRU although BRU overall is a bit busier. It has been like that ever since the collapse of Sabena, the gap has decreased already a lot, but it's normal that it remains. Don't forget OS is also still quite a bit larger in the short/medium haul segment versus SN.

Regarding SN, I think many people underestimate the amount of transfer traffic. Flights to some of SN's long haul destinations leave with hardly any local pax at all and a new route like BOM kicked off immediately with a very big majority of the people transferring (both short haul and long haul) even though SN having no 'name' whatsoever in these markets. That's not because SN seriously lacks transfer capabilities in its network.
The difference with OS (and as such the difference in volume) is that SN focuses mainly on long haul network connectivity and besides that a strong O&D market. The latter might not be as exciting for some people, but with BRU being a large and attractive local market, a strong O&D position is absolutely essential for SN to increase its foothold in Brussels. OS on the other hand has a much bigger focus on being a short haul transfer carrier. One is not necessarily better than the other: a hub can be easily hijacked by another airline/hub combination and a strong O&D market is vulnerable for a lot of local competition.
The take-over of the HQ ops was not just because Gustin wanted some more sunny destinations in the SN network to plan his summer holidays, it's part of a very clear strategy to vastly expand the market position of SN in the Belgian home market, making sure the Belgian market knows SN not only for those odd African destinations or those dreadful business trips paid by the company, but also link SN to going their holidays etc because SN was very weak on that not that many years ago. I hear more and more people that flew SN to go on holiday that used to fly foreign carriers (not the least LCC's) or JAF, HQ in the past. SN needs that base to be able to have the mass to compete with much much larger foreign companies that are also aiming at the lucrative Belgian market. It's not for nothing that Belgium is in the top 10 of FR's largest country markets in terms of flights, ahead of Greece and not far behind France etc.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by JOVAN » 08 Jan 2018, 23:33

I think SN's and BRU's future growth should be in attracting transfer PAX.

There was a time BRU was not really a transfer airport (2000 ) but SN (Sabena) was a real Hub airline.

BRU was not a Hub airport as the infrastructure was not efficient.
Not at all.

In 2000 they had 10mio PAX, but huge losses because of the enormous costs caused by a non-Hub airport.

Now there is a super HUB airport, but SN prefers to fly to Corfu,Sharm al Sheikh etc.

Connecting Business destinations is what brings money. And volume.
Not cheap 'Sunny destinations' .

So, I am not so optimistic for SN as Gustin is.

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RoMax
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by RoMax » 09 Jan 2018, 00:09

JOVAN wrote:
08 Jan 2018, 23:33
Now there is a super HUB airport, but SN prefers to fly to Corfu,Sharm al Sheikh etc.

Connecting Business destinations is what brings money. And volume.
Not cheap 'Sunny destinations' .
Do you have any clue what you are saying actually?

1. SN is not choosing for cheap sunny destinations 'instead of'. The Thomas Cook contract increases the number of aircraft in the fleet + an increase in fleet utilization of several percents (yes that's a lot) which is not only an expansion but also a cost saving.
2. SN is guaranteed(!!) of a profit on those "cheap sunny destinations" without having to sell even one single ticket itself as 70% of the additional volume is already paid for by Thomas Cook (whether TC actually fills those seats or not, they buy them as bulk).
3. Do you think LHG is throwing in billions of Euros in the expansion of the EW project (which is still mainly a company serving those cheap sunny destinations) because there is nothing to earn there?
4. Do you think SN is not expanding on business and transfer routes? Maybe check some data before saying something like that. A small hint: the average number of seats per flight this year will be almost 50 seats more than a few years ago thanks to the phase out of the Avro fleet and larger wet-lease aircraft. Yes that came in some cases at the cost of frequency, but still overall growth in business and transfer markets is double digit.
5. Transfer traffic is continuously growing with double digit numbers well beyond the BRU average and there is no sign that this is going to stop at all.

I can continue like that for a while, but I hope the idea is clear already. Some are just completely blind of the capacity that SN has put on the market over the past years (volume wise but especially percentage wise) in ALL market segments. More would just absolutely kill the yields which are already so much under pressure in Brussels, or do people think those transfer and business pax just fall out of the air in BRU.

Btw, if you think BRU is a super hub airport...sorry but think again. SN even has to delay flights exactly because BRU is just not that and pax don't get through in peak times in the promised minimum connecting time.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by JOVAN » 09 Jan 2018, 08:00

RoMax wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 00:09
JOVAN wrote:
08 Jan 2018, 23:33
Now there is a super HUB airport, but SN prefers to fly to Corfu,Sharm al Sheikh etc.

Connecting Business destinations is what brings money. And volume.
Not cheap 'Sunny destinations' .
Do you have any clue what you are saying actually?

1. SN is not choosing for cheap sunny destinations 'instead of'. The Thomas Cook contract increases the number of aircraft in the fleet + an increase in fleet utilization of several percents (yes that's a lot) which is not only an expansion but also a cost saving.
2. SN is guaranteed(!!) of a profit on those "cheap sunny destinations" without having to sell even one single ticket itself as 70% of the additional volume is already paid for by Thomas Cook (whether TC actually fills those seats or not, they buy them as bulk).
3. Do you think LHG is throwing in billions of Euros in the expansion of the EW project (which is still mainly a company serving those cheap sunny destinations) because there is nothing to earn there?
4. Do you think SN is not expanding on business and transfer routes? Maybe check some data before saying something like that. A small hint: the average number of seats per flight this year will be almost 50 seats more than a few years ago thanks to the phase out of the Avro fleet and larger wet-lease aircraft. Yes that came in some cases at the cost of frequency, but still overall growth in business and transfer markets is double digit.
5. Transfer traffic is continuously growing with double digit numbers well beyond the BRU average and there is no sign that this is going to stop at all.

I can continue like that for a while, but I hope the idea is clear already. Some are just completely blind of the capacity that SN has put on the market over the past years (volume wise but especially percentage wise) in ALL market segments. More would just absolutely kill the yields which are already so much under pressure in Brussels, or do people think those transfer and business pax just fall out of the air in BRU.

Btw, if you think BRU is a super hub airport...sorry but think again. SN even has to delay flights exactly because BRU is just not that and pax don't get through in peak times in the promised minimum connecting time.
My point is that BRU is doing a lot less on Transfer PAX compared to Vienna. (not to AMS or FRA...).

Sunny destinations do not bring transfer PAX.

The infrastructure of BRU allows to use the facilities as a perfect Transfer point.
I know there are sometimes problems with pasport control, baggage handling etc; too many strikes.
Also aircontrol stiked a lot in recent years. But the infastructure is there and during big periods in daytime the facilities are under-used.

And they should leave Mikonos, Corfou to Tui. That is my idea.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by RoMax » 09 Jan 2018, 08:31

JOVAN wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:00
And they should leave Mikonos, Corfou to Tui. That is my idea.
Give me 1 good reason why they should do that...

What business or transfer markets would you serve on those Saturday afternoons for example? A period when the majority of the fleet used to be doing not much in the past has been already optimized with charters over the years and in summer 2018 they'll be as busy operating to sunny destinations as any other day of the week flying to other types of markets.

For the additional aircraft, some argue they would have to put them on "more valuable markets". Ok then, give me the routes to fill at least 2 A320's year-round (in summer more) and being guaranteed of important profit margins as from the very start. All this while gaining a significant amount of home market share (btw mind that the leisure market is larger and faster growing than the business market, even though the yields on the latter are traditionally higher, that doesn't mean you get all your profits there, absolutely not).

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by Stij » 09 Jan 2018, 10:00

I agree, you need both... even during the week: morning and evening rotation to business destination, afternoon rotation to the South.
And why wouldn't you be able to offer transfers from the Nordic to the South?

Cheers,

Stij
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Conti764
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by Conti764 » 09 Jan 2018, 16:00

JOVAN wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 08:00
RoMax wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 00:09
JOVAN wrote:
08 Jan 2018, 23:33
Now there is a super HUB airport, but SN prefers to fly to Corfu,Sharm al Sheikh etc.

Connecting Business destinations is what brings money. And volume.
Not cheap 'Sunny destinations' .
Do you have any clue what you are saying actually?

1. SN is not choosing for cheap sunny destinations 'instead of'. The Thomas Cook contract increases the number of aircraft in the fleet + an increase in fleet utilization of several percents (yes that's a lot) which is not only an expansion but also a cost saving.
2. SN is guaranteed(!!) of a profit on those "cheap sunny destinations" without having to sell even one single ticket itself as 70% of the additional volume is already paid for by Thomas Cook (whether TC actually fills those seats or not, they buy them as bulk).
3. Do you think LHG is throwing in billions of Euros in the expansion of the EW project (which is still mainly a company serving those cheap sunny destinations) because there is nothing to earn there?
4. Do you think SN is not expanding on business and transfer routes? Maybe check some data before saying something like that. A small hint: the average number of seats per flight this year will be almost 50 seats more than a few years ago thanks to the phase out of the Avro fleet and larger wet-lease aircraft. Yes that came in some cases at the cost of frequency, but still overall growth in business and transfer markets is double digit.
5. Transfer traffic is continuously growing with double digit numbers well beyond the BRU average and there is no sign that this is going to stop at all.

I can continue like that for a while, but I hope the idea is clear already. Some are just completely blind of the capacity that SN has put on the market over the past years (volume wise but especially percentage wise) in ALL market segments. More would just absolutely kill the yields which are already so much under pressure in Brussels, or do people think those transfer and business pax just fall out of the air in BRU.

Btw, if you think BRU is a super hub airport...sorry but think again. SN even has to delay flights exactly because BRU is just not that and pax don't get through in peak times in the promised minimum connecting time.
My point is that BRU is doing a lot less on Transfer PAX compared to Vienna. (not to AMS or FRA...).

Sunny destinations do not bring transfer PAX.

The infrastructure of BRU allows to use the facilities as a perfect Transfer point.
I know there are sometimes problems with pasport control, baggage handling etc; too many strikes.
Also aircontrol stiked a lot in recent years. But the infastructure is there and during big periods in daytime the facilities are under-used.

And they should leave Mikonos, Corfou to Tui. That is my idea.
Leave it to Tui? What sense would that make?

If - and that's a big if because I wouldn't trust LH - a true hybrid model is the way SN is going, there is nothing but advantages for SN... Higher deployment rate of aircraft, more (guaranteed!) income, bigger and more streamlined fleet.

There is nothing stopping SN from offering 'normal' (business) destinations next to the leisure flights.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by JOVAN » 09 Jan 2018, 21:02

We will certainly not agree, and anyway we cannot influence SN's strategy.

Just some figures to compare with another airline & another airport from another country, not so far away:

2016 figures
PAX from MANCHESTER to AMS : 1.013.000 BRU : not Top 20
BIRMINGHAM to AMS : 631.000 BRU : 133.000
HAMBURG to AMS : 250.000 BRU : 89.000

Or you said KIGALI to AMS : 145.754 BRU : 57.067 ( !!! )

But if Alicante and Reus and Mykonos help to eventually get the 10million mark ....OK ? and after that ??

Growth is anyway only possible with transfer PAX. The infrastucture in BRU is there.
Needs of course adaptations.
Business destinations are the future. Connecting them is guaranteed growth.

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RoMax
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by RoMax » 09 Jan 2018, 21:29

JOVAN wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 21:02
2016 figures
PAX from MANCHESTER to AMS : 1.013.000 BRU : not Top 20
BIRMINGHAM to AMS : 631.000 BRU : 133.000
HAMBURG to AMS : 250.000 BRU : 89.000

Or you said KIGALI to AMS : 145.754 BRU : 57.067 ( !!! )
And what should we take away from these statistics? You're comparing a mid-sized airport with an airport that's vying with CDG for the position of being the 2nd busiest airport in Europe. Taking UK destinations is even more double-sided, it's not for nothing that AMS is called "the 3rd runway of Heathrow".

There are some interesting studies both in the Netherlands and Denmark on why AMS came out as such a champion while there used to be a time when AMS, BRU and CPH were similar sized airports with quite a similar market potential (Sabena and a lack of government vision on aviation policy and development are more or less the 2 main reasons that put BRU behind for eternity). The battle for that position has been lost already in the 70's and 80's and the distance only got bigger, for various reasons. Hoping for BRU to become a second AMS is just silly.

For the rest, well indeed let's agree to disagree. But you keep ignoring the fact that SN is not holding back growth in the transfer market nor on business markets. Is it a guarantee for growth as you say? Well yes definitely, but the airline industry is FULL of examples on how excessively rapid hub growth without a proper foundation turned 180degrees from rapid growth into a steep dive towards failure. SN is growing and aims to continue to do so on multiple fields, attempting to strike a proper balance between the local market and transfer markets.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by JOVAN » 09 Jan 2018, 22:23

Well, I agree to disagree.

I see what I see: many missed chances at BRU.

Lack of vision (both goverrnment and management of BRU and SN).

Being a BRU fan, I am happy that they grow, but unhappy they leave sooo many chances unused, being located in the very center of Europe.

In Belgium we have to learn to live with second class airports, highways, railways, city development, ...
Total lack of vision ON MANY LEVELS.

In Belgium we will miss a lot of chances because of this. BRU is just an example.

But hey, we have good beer and good waffles........

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by sn26567 » 09 Jan 2018, 22:40

JOVAN wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 22:23

But hey, we have good beer and good waffles........
... without forgetting the chocolate.

But about the BRU monthly (and annual) figures, which are the real topic of this thread, we see month after month that there is a progress. I think with JOVAN that the progress could be better, in line with the progress of Brussels Airlines whose market share in BRU increases every year, if not every month.

And this is a good sign: in most European capitals, the market is driven by the home carrier, the dominant airline in the airport, who has often more than a 50% share of the market. in BRU this is far from being the case and there is a lot of room for improvement. Let's hope that our national airline will grab all the opportunities and not let others take new markets. What I see is encouraging, but not sufficient: new airlines are picking new markets in Georgia, Moldova, China, ... SN only added India, Armenia and the Thomas Cook leisure destinations.

I understand that they are taking a lot of precautions before opening a new destination. But now, with the financial backing of Lufthansa, they could act a little more aggressively, the same way Lufthansa is pushing Eurowings to grow at an accelerated pace, both in Europe and on transcontinental routes (with the help of ... SN).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Jetter
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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by Jetter » 10 Jan 2018, 16:25

JOVAN wrote:
09 Jan 2018, 22:23
Well, I agree to disagree.

I see what I see: many missed chances at BRU.

Lack of vision (both goverrnment and management of BRU and SN).

Being a BRU fan, I am happy that they grow, but unhappy they leave sooo many chances unused, being located in the very center of Europe.

In Belgium we have to learn to live with second class airports, highways, railways, city development, ...
Total lack of vision ON MANY LEVELS.

In Belgium we will miss a lot of chances because of this. BRU is just an example.
While you are mostly right I think the blame lies 90% at the government/Sabena and only 10% at SN. There's only so much you can expect from a company that had to start from scratch in a environment with many established players. The location of BRU right in the middle of the 'Blue Banana' and being the capital of the EU provided an excellent opportunity to become Europe's largest hub, but now that opportunity has been wasted that also means BRU is close to many airports that provide better connectivity and thus it's hard to regain a major hub function.

You compare with AMS but The Netherlands has had a much more favorable view of aviation. If you'd look at election programmes, 75% of Dutch parties will mention the importance of AMS and the government has a set of measures to keep AMS competitive and aviation policy for decades has been made with KLM in mind. Not so much in Belgium, where politicians are looking to fine aircraft. Or look at the runway situation, to get those numbers of AMS you posted you need 4 runways that can be used simultaneously. AMS has 6 of which 4 can be used at the same time, with room reserved for 2 more. BRU has just 3 of which only 2 can be used at the same time without room for extra runways (afaik). That's a disadvantage you'll never make up for due to mistakes in the past until aircraft can fly horizontal .

Also BRU has a different objectives, namely to provide profit for Canadian teachers while generating profit isn't a major objective at many competing European airports (AMS/FRA).

There's nothing wrong with realizing BRU had huge potential to be much bigger than it is, but that's hardly relevant anymore.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by DannyVDB » 12 Jan 2018, 08:34

Interesting to follow the incoming figures for the top 100 European airports here ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... _in_Europe

I think BRU will stay in its current position. Funny enough I think that BRU, VIE and DUS reached the 24,0 million mark at the same day (22/12/2017). :D So they will be very close ...

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by Yuqu12 » 12 Jan 2018, 08:58

If I'm not mistaken, DUS was indeed the 22nd and BRU the 23rd, so very close indeed.

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by luchtzak » 12 Jan 2018, 10:46

I spotted a 28,3% increase for Reykjavik, impressive.
Also Eastern Europe increases at Warsaw, Budapest, Sofia

But Brussels Airport with a growth of 13,6% is also nice!

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Re: BRU airport monthly traffic figures in 2017

Post by sn26567 » 12 Jan 2018, 11:11

luchtzak wrote:
12 Jan 2018, 10:46

But Brussels Airport with a growth of 13,6% is also nice!
... which is less than Brussels Airlines. Our national carrier thus increases its grip on Brussels Airport.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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