ATC conversation

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jan_olieslagers
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Well, I can see the fascination of it for airline spotters at the main airports; indeed I have enjoyed it myself for many years. And for a pilot in training, whether professional of amateur, it makes a good exercise, and helps in familiarising with the vocabulary and the rules of behaviour. And most exciting if one can follow one of the luckily rare incidents, and know first-hand what is going on.

And indeed there is nothing wrong with it. If there really were, these communications would long have been encoded/decoded. Such technology has been available for several decades now.

cnc
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by cnc »

tangolima wrote:
cnc wrote:why would anyone have a need to listen to ATCO/pilot conversations anyway?
Hello

- To find out on which runway the aircraft will land/or depart from.
- ATC/Pilot conversations are also used for persons who want to become ATC. So it are their "study books".

Greetings,
You have good arguments but its still a private conversation and we for example don't really like it when everyone is able to listen in during some sort of emergency, whether its because a pax is very ill or the a/c has a technical problem.

tangolima
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by tangolima »

cnc wrote:
tangolima wrote:
cnc wrote:why would anyone have a need to listen to ATCO/pilot conversations anyway?
Hello

- To find out on which runway the aircraft will land/or depart from.
- ATC/Pilot conversations are also used for persons who want to become ATC. So it are their "study books".

Greetings,
You have good arguments but its still a private conversation and we for example don't really like it when everyone is able to listen in during some sort of emergency, whether its because a pax is very ill or the a/c has a technical problem.
Hello

Private ? not really, every pilot that is on the same frequency can hear all the conversations of that specific frequency.

But then they should forbidden those radio scanners in every country no ?

Greetings,
All my posted timings are local !

cnc
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by cnc »

well thats because they can't have a different freq. for every a/c :)
i like the current rules in belgium, its illegal but if kept to yourself there's no problem

jan_olieslagers
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

I can understand and respect this point of view from a professional pilot - I have been very tempted to publish excerpts from what I heard myself in a very slight incident, but could luckily resist - but tell us frankly: in Holland, where listening to ATC is indeed commonplace, I never heard of any complaint or problem or incident arising?

I do not know if it is still the case, but I remember from a childhood visit to the EBAW tower in the early 1960's that all ATC was being recorded there, and am much more worried about such official recordings than about some amateur listening along! If ever I commit a serious error, I much prefer having it unofficially in the tabloids than hearing it officially in some Brussels office and/or court of justice!

Squelsh
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by Squelsh »

Since this is a public service we are talking about (not talking MIL freq), freedom of information should be applied here. You, me, my grandma or a 16-yr old kid should be able to listen in on these frequencies on a nice sunny sundayafternoon, discussing what we hear, what to expect, why something is happening in the sky above us, and who is controlling it. And I'm not talking static.
You can have the device but can't tune in on public service convo's that "do not concern" you. I remember vaguely the European court slapped Belgium on the fingers for this grey area somewhere late 90's. Nothing from what I read indicates that this has changed in the meantime. Airband should be public to listen into.

teddybAIR
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by teddybAIR »

Indeed Jan, all ATC frequencies are taped, but if you stick to your obligations as a pilot, you should see this as an advantage really. Did you know that they even tape any call you make to the meteo-office. If you are involved in an incident or accident, they will look at the on-board documents to check whether you informed yourself about actual and predicted wheather. If they don't find anything, they will listen to the tapes of the meteo-office, because you might have informed yourself that way. So really, you can use those tapes in your advantage to prove that you effectively did prepair your flight in accordance with national regulations.

And concerning the 'need' to scan aviation frequencies for trianing purposes...I'm rather sceptical. I do not think that will be accepted as a valid reason and will rather be interpreted as satisfaction of your personal curiosity. You do not open a letter adressed to someone else simply because you want to know the content, do you?

Squelsh
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by Squelsh »

Anyone know if this privacy-rule also applies to Citizen Band?

Squelsh
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by Squelsh »

And also, would it be considdered an offense in Belgium to listen via a website to the JFK tower, because it involves 'so-called-private' conversations that do not concern you? It's very very shady legislation imo. Imagine missing out on convo's as below.


Meteorite pretty obviously

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Sam Rutherford
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by Sam Rutherford »

We're looking to organise another VintageAirRally event next year in Belgium, and would like people on the ground (the audience) to listen on the (local) frequency - hear the exchanges between controller and those flying. Either over the loudspeakers, or via an APP on their phones.

I guess a special authorisation will be needed - has this ever been done in Belgium? Anyone any advice?

Thanks, Sam.
Sam Rutherford

VintageAirRally

jan_olieslagers
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Re: ATC conversation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

You could talk to the organisers of the Schaffen/Diest fly-in - they used to have the (temporary) FIS frequency on the public address speakers at intervals. (The a/d's usual frequency becomes an ATIS during the event, an excellent arrangement.)

Then again, you'll need to talk to BIPT anyway to obtain the temporary frequency so why not inquire with them?

PS are you really going to set up a temporary CTR? It seems neither easy not likely - but if you talk of a "controller" you imply controlled airspace!

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