Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 24 Aug 2017, 10:27

Ansett wrote:
23 Aug 2017, 22:34
Wasn't this suggested by luchtzak members already quite some time ago ? A320 family aircraft from BRU to Africa and as well as a NYC late evening flight ? I seem to remember the idea was considered "unworkable", also by SN management, but when Swiss CEO considers it, it gets serious attention.
I did on some African destinations it can work for example Luanda there is not much belly cargo and a A330 is to big and so you can start an non stop flight..
Also Dakar with a second flight could work.
Dakar is a short flight so maybe with two flights with a A321LR you can also take enough belly cargo but about this I'm not sure.
Last edited by lumumba on 24 Aug 2017, 17:11, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Treeper
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Treeper » 24 Aug 2017, 11:13

lumumba wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 10:27

Also Dakar with a second flight could work.
Dakar is a short flight so maybe with two flights of a A321LR you can also take enough belly cargo but about this I'm not sure.
If I remember correctly there can be only 1 flight between Senegal and Belgium, due to bilateral agreement.
Correct me if I'm wrong

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 24 Aug 2017, 11:46

Treeper wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 11:13
lumumba wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 10:27

Also Dakar with a second flight could work.
Dakar is a short flight so maybe with two flights of a A321LR you can also take enough belly cargo but about this I'm not sure.
If I remember correctly there can be only 1 flight between Senegal and Belgium, due to bilateral agreement.
Correct me if I'm wrong
I don't now but for sure Senegal is very liberal in that matter from France you have a lot of different companies flying there even charter.
Anyway it's negotiable....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by DeltaWiskey » 24 Aug 2017, 12:52

Various departments within Brussels Airlines are also studying the A321LR.

The A321LR is a much different aircraft from the A319LR (ceo), which a member of this forum advocated for sub-sahara operations in the past.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by JOVAN » 24 Aug 2017, 14:40

Poiu wrote:
23 Aug 2017, 23:07
Ansett wrote:
23 Aug 2017, 22:34
Wasn't this suggested by luchtzak members already quite some time ago ? A320 family aircraft from BRU to Africa and as well as a NYC late evening flight ? I seem to remember the idea was considered "unworkable", also by SN management, but when Swiss CEO considers it, it gets serious attention.
Indeed, Flanker where are you? CEO at Swiss?
Flanker Always had good strategic ideas.
I think he quit the Forum ??
Pity so many members here tought they new better.
Discussions now are less interesting.

Sabena320
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Sabena320 » 24 Aug 2017, 15:38

I think the chances of SN deploying A321's to Africa, except for maybe a single route, are slim. These aircraft simply don't have enough payload capacity for luggage and cargo load together. If they add A321's to their fleet it would probably be for high loadfactor routes as to the Canary Islands, BCN and other tourist destinations.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 24 Aug 2017, 17:10

Sabena320 wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 15:38
I think the chances of SN deploying A321's to Africa, except for maybe a single route, are slim. These aircraft simply don't have enough payload capacity for luggage and cargo load together. If they add A321's to their fleet it would probably be for high loadfactor routes as to the Canary Islands, BCN and other tourist destinations.
But this discussion is specific to the A321LR ...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 » 24 Aug 2017, 17:32

lumumba wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 17:10
Sabena320 wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 15:38
I think the chances of SN deploying A321's to Africa, except for maybe a single route, are slim. These aircraft simply don't have enough payload capacity for luggage and cargo load together. If they add A321's to their fleet it would probably be for high loadfactor routes as to the Canary Islands, BCN and other tourist destinations.
But this discussion is specific to the A321LR ...
But this topic is specific to the Brussels Airlines fleet renewal...

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba » 24 Aug 2017, 18:26

crew1990 wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 17:32
lumumba wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 17:10
Sabena320 wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 15:38
I think the chances of SN deploying A321's to Africa, except for maybe a single route, are slim. These aircraft simply don't have enough payload capacity for luggage and cargo load together. If they add A321's to their fleet it would probably be for high loadfactor routes as to the Canary Islands, BCN and other tourist destinations.
But this discussion is specific to the A321LR ...
But this topic is specific to the Brussels Airlines fleet renewal...
That's correct but I just wanted to pointed out that we where discussing about the A321LR and it will not be used for the high loadfactor routes...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke » 24 Aug 2017, 21:42

it's no surprise LH wants some A321 in SN's fleet as the whole LH group (OS LX LH) not EW/GW have A321's which would make it easier to swap when one needs a bigger plane for a short time (popular summer destinations or even CDG)
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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by convair » 24 Aug 2017, 22:03

CTBke wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 21:42
it's no surprise LH wants some A321 in SN's fleet as the whole LH group (OS LX LH) not EW/GW have A321's which would make it easier to swap when one needs a bigger plane for a short time (popular summer destinations or even CDG)
Theoretically, it's a good idea; however, LH has not seemed very keen to swap planes (at least with SN) in the past.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke » 24 Aug 2017, 22:06

true, but it could be different since they own 100% now... German routes will slowly be operated by EW already so wait and see what next summer brings
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Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Poiu » 24 Aug 2017, 22:31

CTBke wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 21:42
it's no surprise LH wants some A321 in SN's fleet as the whole LH group (OS LX LH) not EW/GW have A321's which would make it easier to swap when one needs a bigger plane for a short time (popular summer destinations or even CDG)
A321LR don't come cheap, using them on CDG for transfer passengers will not generate much yield.
The big danger of the 321LR is that LOCOs or African airlines could start competing with SN.

OO-ITR
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by OO-ITR » 24 Aug 2017, 23:59

crew1990 wrote:
23 Aug 2017, 22:58
I m still convince that this is not the right aircraft to fly for Africa, because with the actual network even the A330 are almost full everyday, if not in cabin, it s full in the belly. The A321LR doesn't have such cargo capacity. The only point I would see the A321LR would be on long haul leisure destination as there would be almost no cargo and there Is no proper business class needed.

However I still think that a couple of standard A321 would be nice for the European sector and Tel Aviv
that is maybe because all (or almost all) destinations are flown in triangular flights. The rumour (?) goes that LH wants more direct flights.

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke » 25 Aug 2017, 10:16

Poiu wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 22:31
CTBke wrote:
24 Aug 2017, 21:42
it's no surprise LH wants some A321 in SN's fleet as the whole LH group (OS LX LH) not EW/GW have A321's which would make it easier to swap when one needs a bigger plane for a short time (popular summer destinations or even CDG)
A321LR don't come cheap, using them on CDG for transfer passengers will not generate much yield.
The big danger of the 321LR is that LOCOs or African airlines could start competing with SN.
true, but I mean regular A321 for European operations, no LR as they're not yet on the market ;)
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Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Ansett » 29 Aug 2017, 23:33

lumumba wrote: That's correct but I just wanted to pointed out that we where discussing about the A321LR and it will not be used for the high loadfactor routes...

Wouldn't the A321LR be a solution for SN to keep on flying to IAD all year round (or is IAD just a little too far ?).
Same reasoning in order to fly daily (alternating with the A330) all year round to YYZ ?
And what about BOS and the 'monster of the Loch Ness", the late evening flight to NYC ?

Delivery (to leasing companies, I think) will start in two years from now.
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/aircraft ... y/a321neo/

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke » 31 Aug 2017, 14:31

Ansett wrote:
29 Aug 2017, 23:33
lumumba wrote: That's correct but I just wanted to pointed out that we where discussing about the A321LR and it will not be used for the high loadfactor routes...

Wouldn't the A321LR be a solution for SN to keep on flying to IAD all year round (or is IAD just a little too far ?).
Same reasoning in order to fly daily (alternating with the A330) all year round to YYZ ?
And what about BOS and the 'monster of the Loch Ness", the late evening flight to NYC ?

Delivery (to leasing companies, I think) will start in two years from now.
http://www.aircraft.airbus.com/aircraft ... y/a321neo/
Or they can extend their codeshare with UA and let them upgrade with the 777-300 on the IAD-BRU-IAD when needed so SN can use their A330 for another destination
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Bralo20
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Bralo20 » 31 Aug 2017, 15:11

CTBke wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 14:31
Or they can extend their codeshare with UA and let them upgrade with the 777-300 on the IAD-BRU-IAD when needed so SN can use their A330 for another destination

"Upgrading" any UA TATL routes to the 777-300 would be a severe downgrade in comfort for the passengers. So I hope that they won't do that nor that they would deploy the 787 to BRU which would also be a downgrade in terms of comfort.

Since the IAD route is a premium heavy route (these days a lot of executives are flying economy for shorter long haul trips also) I doubt that UA's customers would like that "upgrade".

I would rather fly via a stop with a decent plane than to take a 773 directly from BRU to IAD anyday, anytime. And that's just me, i'm pretty sure there are quite a few people thinking the same.

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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Stij » 31 Aug 2017, 15:43

Bralo20 wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 15:11
"Upgrading" any UA TATL routes to the 777-300 would be a severe downgrade in comfort for the passengers. So I hope that they won't do that nor that they would deploy the 787 to BRU which would also be a downgrade in terms of comfort.

Since the IAD route is a premium heavy route (these days a lot of executives are flying economy for shorter long haul trips also) I doubt that UA's customers would like that "upgrade".

I would rather fly via a stop with a decent plane than to take a 773 directly from BRU to IAD anyday, anytime. And that's just me, i'm pretty sure there are quite a few people thinking the same.
Oh yes, the dreadful 10 seat abreast... I avoid it as long as I can...

Cheers,

Stij

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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by PjVangerven » 31 Aug 2017, 18:31

Bralo20 wrote:
31 Aug 2017, 15:11

"Upgrading" any UA TATL routes to the 777-300 would be a severe downgrade in comfort for the passengers. So I hope that they won't do that nor that they would deploy the 787 to BRU which would also be a downgrade in terms of comfort.
Actually I don't find the UA787 too bad. Ok, there is less room compared to a UA772 and a SNA330, but the difference in cabin pressure and air quality are also important to me and these are much better in the dreamliner. I can really feel the difference. The trip might be a little less comfortable, but the recuperation is much better.

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