Ryanair in 2014

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crew1990
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by crew1990 » 11 Apr 2014, 11:50

What would they get is they join BATA?

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by sn26567 » 11 Apr 2014, 15:29

crew1990 wrote:What would they get is they join BATA?
Higher costs! They will add their membership fee to the price of the ticket of passengers leaving from Belgium ;)
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by teddybAIR » 11 Apr 2014, 15:39

First sententce on www.bata.aero:
The Belgian Air Transport Association (BATA) represents the interests of all commercial airlines in possession of a Belgian Airline Operator’s Certificate (AOC) or airlines having a strong interest in the defense of Belgian civil aviation.
I'm guessing the decision is already made ;)

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by teddybAIR » 11 Apr 2014, 15:40

And add to that their mission statement:
> To promote both the common interests of its member airlines and affiliate member companies and the development of air transportation general, whilst ensuring a fair competitive base for the Belgian air transport industry;
> To cooperate with all stakeholders in aviation in the promotion of safe, efficient, reliable and consumer friendly air transport by Belgian carriers of both passengers and cargo;
> To facilitate communication and cooperation amongst member airlines and between members and the wider international aviation community;
> To represent BATA members' interests in consultation with local, regional, national, European and international authorities and other organisations involved in air transport, including the EU, the Belgian Civil Aviation Authority (BCAA), Belgocontrol and airport companies.
Source: www.bata.aero

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Inquirer » 11 Apr 2014, 15:48

I doubt the membership fee of BATA is very high: I suppose this lobbying organisation is rather small and mainly drawing its human resources from the management teams of its members?

Ryanair probably just want to have a seat at the BATA table when things are discussed with our government. Only problem is, they don't have a Belgian licence. :!:
I don't know if it is strictly needed, but I very much doubt the others are going to be unanimously willing to accept foreign airlines at their table, which often discusses what are referred to as 'handicaps' vs foreign airlines by BATA?

Personally, I think ryanair may start to feel the need to be directly involved in the process of political decision making in Belgium for many practical reasons, one of which may be that some of the parties in the Belgian government are seriously proposing the extention of the night hours at BRU from 6 to 7 AM, making amongst others the very tight flight program ryanair's planes out of BRU are flying as good as impossible to operate if indeed the new rules are enforced. (or at least not at the same cost base, as there's talk of a 5,000 euro levy, fine or whatever you want to call in on departures out of BRU prior to 7 AM).

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... .art?ckc=1

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by teddybAIR » 11 Apr 2014, 15:57

Inquirer wrote:IPersonally, I think ryanair may start to feel the need to be directly involved in the process of political decision making in Belgium for many practical reasons, one of which may be that some of the parties in the Belgian government are seriously proposing the extention of the night hours at BRU from 6 to 7 AM, making amongst others the very tight flight program ryanair's planes out of BRU are flying as good as impossible to operate if indeed the new rules are enforced.
I also heard that on the radio this morning. I interpreted it as a pathetic attempt of a walloon minister to differ more traffic to walloon regional airports at the expense of the national airport. That and the upcoming elections are the only motivations I can think of for this "wereldvreemd" proposal.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by teddybAIR » 11 Apr 2014, 15:58

Inquirer wrote: I suppose this lobbying organisation is rather small and mainly drawing its human resources from the management teams of its members?
Indeed confirmed when you read their bylaws.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Inquirer » 11 Apr 2014, 16:13

I agree, but if enforced, it may have serious implications for all those who's planes leave BRU prior to 7 o'clock as they will have to look for free departure slots past 7 o'clock for their first wave of outbounds.

As the article of De Tijd mentions, it means those companies will likely have to cut the flying program of that plane short at the end of the day and thus risk having no other option but to axe routes from its program, or alternatively add more planes to do the same number of flights.

NO airline, but certainly not the charter airlines and IMHO also an airline like ryanair likes the idea very much to see their fleet waste another hour of extra time on the ground at the start of the day as it may make their full day's operation unprofitable.

As we all know, it doesn't take much votes to block our country or take it hostage; a small political party in the Brussels government can constitutionally take BRU airport hostage with very heavy fines and it seems this is exactly what happening, with the only solution CDH can come up with being to extend the night hours of BRU and make them fit with the will of the Brussels government.
You just got to love our federal set-up, don't you? :)

BRU is definitely no CRL when it comes to customer friendliness and that's probably an understatement still: maybe the first fines from the Brussels regional government have arrived at ryanair's HQ, hence their desire to suddenly belong to BATA, hoping they can help bring back some sense to the minds of our politicians? Good luck!

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by teddybAIR » 11 Apr 2014, 16:18

My bet would be that the politician gets his scoop and the night curfew can be extended to 7am, but that the number of annual flights operating within that curfew is augmented. In practice nothing changes, but Mr. Short Term Politician gets his much wanted scoop before the elections.
Or nothing happens at all. But I don't see them actually doing it after they made efforts to keep tour operators in belgium only last week.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Inquirer » 11 Apr 2014, 16:49

teddybAIR wrote:My bet would be that the politician gets his scoop and the night curfew can be extended to 7am, but that the number of annual flights operating within that curfew is augmented. In practice nothing changes.
Yet the number of nightflights from BRU is limited and I doubt they'll be willing to increase that in the face of elections. On top of that, any single one of the newly created night departures seems to be bringing in no less than 5,000 euro! Now, that must sound like music in the ears of our politicians.

I really don't know where this will all end, but knowing Belgium, it's not unimaginable (morning) flights from BRU becoming a LOT more expensive in future and to relay this idea back to this topic: it may be (one of the reasons) why ryanair wants to join BATA, i.e. to try to help prevent this from happening.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by flightlover » 11 Apr 2014, 16:53

teddybAIR wrote:My bet would be that the politician gets his scoop and the night curfew can be extended to 7am, but that the number of annual flights operating within that curfew is augmented. In practice nothing changes, but Mr. Short Term Politician gets his much wanted scoop before the elections.
Or nothing happens at all. But I don't see them actually doing it after they made efforts to keep tour operators in belgium only last week.
That intervention last weak in which they axed the taxes on extra-EU travel was needed as these Walloon ministers do want the tour-operators to keep flying out of Belgium. However it is to be understood as a support towards the regional airports of CRL and LGG as they would also loose a lot of (potential) flights if this type of flights would operate from nearby but non Belgian airports.

On the curfew front it is to be seen as a measure to make sure that Ryanair will not move to much capacity to BRU. As that would come at the cost of CRL.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Inquirer » 11 Apr 2014, 17:01

flightlover wrote:On the curfew front it is to be seen as a measure to make sure that Ryanair will not move to much capacity to BRU. As that would come at the cost of CRL.
That could be the case indeed, but it's adding costs for Belgian airlines operating from BRU too, of course.
Or is BATA already lobbying to have those exempted from the extended night curfew rules, based on historic rights or other stuff, maybe?
That would then explain even better why ryanair suddenly wants to become a member of BATA, hoping they'd defend their case too.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by sn26567 » 11 Apr 2014, 17:48

May I remind you that this topic is about Ryanair in 2014.

If you want to discuss about the night curfew at Brussels Airport (or its extension), please feel free to create a new topic, which would indeed be an interesting subject of discussion.
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by airazurxtror » 11 Apr 2014, 17:50

Inquirer wrote: Ryanair probably just want to have a seat at the BATA table when things are discussed with our government. Only problem is, they don't have a Belgian licence.
Does Cityjet have one ?
They are a member of BATA.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Passenger » 11 Apr 2014, 18:04

airazurxtror wrote:
Inquirer wrote: Ryanair probably just want to have a seat at the BATA table when things are discussed with our government. Only problem is, they don't have a Belgian licence.
Does Cityjet have one ?
They are a member of BATA.
VLM Airlines still exists as Belgian airline.

rhigginson
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by rhigginson » 15 Apr 2014, 10:13

Flybe cancels Cologne service in light of competition from Ryanair:

http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/ ... rt/?ref=nt

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by airazurxtror » 24 Apr 2014, 19:04

viewtopic.php?p=297798#p297798 (English)
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... e852425446 (French)

Beginning 26 October 2014, Ryanair will fly from Charleroi to Prague and Bucharest, with 7 flights per week.
Ryanair will raise frequencies on 11 other routes from Charleroi.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by sn26567 » 25 Apr 2014, 20:20

Thus, for next winter, Ryanair opens 2 destinations and increases frequencies on 11 routes from CRL, but it reduces the number of routes out of BRU from 10 to 9. What happened to the promise that they would expand in Brussels, notably to Stansted, Madrid and Dublin?

Trends/Tendances explains that they could not expand in CRL by lack of planes, but in the winter they will receive new aircraft enabling them to expand there. But why not in BRU?

In addition, Trends says that the number of pax in CRL will drop by much less than 700,000.
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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by sean1982 » 25 Apr 2014, 20:59

Expansion at BRU is planned for next summer, and from the preliminary planning it's not just going to be 3 routes. I wouldnt cry eureka yet André ;-)

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Re: Ryanair in 2014

Post by Inquirer » 25 Apr 2014, 21:22

sn26567 wrote:Thus, for next winter, Ryanair opens 2 destinations and increases frequencies on 11 routes from CRL, but it reduces the number of routes out of BRU from 10 to 9. What happened to the promise that they would expand in Brussels, notably to Stansted, Madrid and Dublin?
It could all just be delayed for a thousand of practical reasons, or the financial results from BRU are of a different nature than they are used to and need a more careful analysis before a next move is made.

We already know that loadfactors for March barely made it above 70% from BRU and it now get confirmation that a large part of their customers in fact just moved over from CRL, rather than be stolen from others at BRU.

Some routes got moved, whereas on other routes they simply added capacity by flying from BRU too, but in either case, operating costs of those affected routes must have gotten significantly higher, so the real question is: did the extra revenues generated by coming to BRU offset the extra costs encurred by flying from BRU (too)?

The way in which they deal with BRU over the coming weeks and months is going to give away the final answer to this question, but my bet for now is they came to find out they'll need more time before they can move ahead than they had hoped at first, in which case delaying expansion till the next summer high season is a logical thing to do.

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