Boeing 777X news

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RoMax
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Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 27 Apr 2012, 17:51

After Boeing announced they are probbably going to launch 2 new Boeing 777 versions, several airlines expressed their interest in these types (including number one 777 user: Emirates, but also Cathay, EVA, ...).
Now also British Airways expressed their interest in the 777X to replace a big part of their 744 fleet by the end of the decade.

A part of the 744 fleet will be replaced by the A380's, but they have 52 744's and not all of these will get the A380 as replacement. BA says they are currently evaluating the 777X, the 787-10 and possibly the A350-1000.

Boeing announced they will probably launch 3 new aircraft versions by the end of the year. The 777-8 (a replacement of the 777-200ER, but a bit larger), the 777-9 (a replacement of the 777-300ER, but also a bit larger) and the 787-10 (a stretch of the 787-9, you can compare the -9 with the -10 like the A332 against the A333).

Several airlines already announced they are really interested in the 777X or the 787-10 or both, altough no reall big suprises until now (so mostly loyal Boeing airlines).

For an airline like British Airways these types really make sense, they already have the 787-8 and 787-9 and A380 on order. So let's say they order the 777-9 and 787-10. They would have 787-8, 787-9, 787-10, 777-9 and A380. That's a hugely flexible fleet, even more than their current mix of 767, 777 (-200(ER) and -300ER) and 747.
Last edited by RoMax on 07 Mar 2013, 15:16, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by cathay belgium » 27 Apr 2012, 18:02

Hi,

Why not replacing 744 with 748 ?

:(

CX-B

748 a dead plane already,before it ever took off ?? or just cargo ?
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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by RoMax » 27 Apr 2012, 18:09

I'm sure it will be quite succes on the cargo side. And probably they'll also get some more airline clients, but for sure it will be FAR from the 744 succes...

For airlines operating the 777-300ER and especially when they are going to order the larger 777-9, it makes no sense for them to order the 748i...

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by cnc » 27 Apr 2012, 18:17

also its because BA can wait untill the 777X is available and the routes where 4 engine are needed can be passed on to the A380.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by sn26567 » 27 Apr 2012, 20:15

MR_Boeing wrote:Boeing announced they will probably launch 3 new aircraft versions by the end of the year. The 777-8 (a replacement of the 777-200ER, but a bit larger), the 777-9 (a replacement of the 777-300ER, but also a bit larger)
When you say "larger", I guess you mean "longer" and not "wider". It is relatively easier (or rather less difficult) to add some length to a plane than to change the diameter of its fuselage, which means changing everything in the assembly line.
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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by DeltaWiskey » 27 Apr 2012, 20:44

I guess the 777-8 and -9 will also be wider. The current 777 generation has very high wing loads, in order to increase aerodynamic efficiency, wing load needs to lower significantly. Aside of the lower MTOW, more wing span is needed, to obtain a higher A/R wing.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by smokejumper » 27 Apr 2012, 21:08

cathay belgium wrote:Hi,

Why not replacing 744 with 748 ?

:(

CX-B

748 a dead plane already,before it ever took off ?? or just cargo ?

I have a friend who flew 747-400's for United; he said it was a real gas hog but it carried 400 passengers 8,000 miles. The 747-8 can carry about 450, the same distance, so you get better seat miles/fuel expended.

The 777 is much more efficient; the -300ER carries about 360 passengers the same distance, but uses a lot less fuel. Unless your route structure demands the higher seating capacity, the 777 is a better choice.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by RoMax » 28 Apr 2012, 11:25

sn26567 wrote: When you say "larger", I guess you mean "longer" and not "wider". It is relatively easier (or rather less difficult) to add some length to a plane than to change the diameter of its fuselage, which means changing everything in the assembly line.
It is indeed going to be longer, and with a new, much larger (composite) wing probably. But the cabin will be a bit wider too, while not making the frame wider. Thanks to new technology they can reduce the space between the outside of the frame and the cabin walls, while making it even stronger than before. Because of this they'll add some extra cm's to the diameter of the cabin and because of that it will be more comfortable to have a 10 abreast configuration (like several airlines already have on the 777).

But the frame itself wouldn't be wider normally, that would make it very costly and it's not really needed. But of course now you'll get a 777 wich will have really big wings.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by RoMax » 15 May 2012, 20:42

Emirates wants Boeing to move fast on the new 777X.

In Dutch only: http://www.flightlevel.be/12848/emirate ... -over-777x

In English: http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1336740736.html

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by kiwiandrew » 17 May 2012, 10:21

cnc wrote:also its because BA can wait untill the 777X is available and the routes where 4 engine are needed can be passed on to the A380.
What routes does BA operate that would still require quads ? I can understand that they will need the A380 on some routes for capacity, but I can't think of any routes where they would need it just because it is a quad.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by RoMax » 14 Feb 2013, 01:08

Boeing showed a first public render of the 777-9X during a presentation. Still not much information, neither anything on a firm design. But there's one interesting thing...the return of the folding wing. This was also offered by Boeing on the early 777's in the nineties, but no airline ordered it (too heavy and too sensitive for maintenance) and Boeing dropped the design.
But the 777X is planned to have new composite wings...creating huge wings that will not be easy to fit into the current used gates.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblog ... otostream/
(also a 787-10 in the foreground)

The previous folding wing design included (a part of) the aileron, making it very heavy and it would need a lot of maintenance. The only reason Boeing offered this was to let the 777 fit in the smaller gates used for 767 and DC-10, but being too small for the 777. Airlines didn't really need that apperently. This time the situation is different, it will be a composite wing and the folding part will not include any moving flight control parts. And with a wingspan going to 71m (last I heard) compared to the current 61-65m (depending on the version), you do need to do something about it.

Also Emirates recently said once again they hope for a launch within 6-9 months...at least "as soon as possible". I assume they are also standing behind the folding wing concept as this is known for quite some time already, but as far as I know they didn't comment on it (and you know, if they don't like something...). They are also partner airline number-1 in the development, besides airlines like BA.

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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by sn26567 » 14 Feb 2013, 11:10

RoMax wrote:But there's one interesting thing...the return of the folding wing.
Interesting indeed. But apparently Randy Tinseth, vice president of marketing for Boeing Commercial Airplanes, declined to confirm that the 777X design included folding wings.

Airbus is marketing a mini-jumbo, 350-seat version of its mainly composite A350 to try to dent the success of the 777, and is likely to argue that 777 features such as fold-back wingtips could add maintenance risk.

Furthermore, the 777X timing could be affected by the 787. Tinseth said Boeing's main focus is on getting its 787 Dreamliner flying again.
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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by KriVa » 14 Feb 2013, 11:42

I'd be very interested to see the folding wing implemented.
As long as no flight control surfaces or fuel tanks have to be put in the folding part, this looks like a rather straight forward job to me.
If a 71m wingspan was the final design, only 3m of folding wing are required on each side, easily small enough to not get in the way of any major components.
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Re: Also British Airways wants the Boeing 777X

Post by RoMax » 14 Feb 2013, 16:07

sn26567 wrote: Airbus is marketing a mini-jumbo, 350-seat version of its mainly composite A350 to try to dent the success of the 777, and is likely to argue that 777 features such as fold-back wingtips could add maintenance risk.
The A350-1000 <-> 777X fight will be an interesting one, as 777-customers like Eva Air, Emirates, BA,... will prefere the 777X, others will prefere the A350-1000. Airbus can indeed use the folding wing as an agrument to go for their A350 (well...I'm quite sure they will use that argument), but still it simply depends on the requirements of the airlines as they are not 100% in the same class. The A351 may be the most fuel efficient in its class, the 777-9X will be more capable in transporting bigger loads of pax and cargo, making it the more efficient one in the larger class (and basicly killing the 747-8i, with only the freighter-version having a future). Remember the -9X will be a slight stretch of the -300ER, making it quite a bit bigger than the A350-1000 and comming almost besides the 748i.

Some interesting things about the 777X by Aspire Aviation:
The weight penalty for the folding wing tips will be 800lbs...back in 1995 it was 3,200lbs on the 777-200.
The wingtips will be operated electrically with no moving parts in the wingtip.
The current 777-versions are Category E, with the new wings it will be Category F in air/on runway, but it will remain Category E on the ground (and that makes quite a difference). Btw, with 79.75m only the A380 will have a bigger wingspan than the 777-9X.
The 777X will get a 4th-generation CRFP (carbon fibre reinforced polymer) with a 12% better lift-to-drag ratio compared to the -300ER wings.
The 777X is suposed to have a 21% lower block fuel burn/seat and 16% cash operating costs per seat over the current -300ER.
But there's no decision yet on the engines, tough with the 'failing' 748-program, I'm quite sure GE really wants this contract.

For who has a LOT of time, the whole article about the 787, 777-8X and 777-9X:
http://www.aspireaviation.com/2013/02/1 ... tery-woes/

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 07 Mar 2013, 15:21

Emirates says Boeing is very close to launching the new 777X versions. During a trade-show in Berlin, the ceo Tim Clark said he thinks "they are ready to go on that". He also said: "I am hoping that within the next two to three weeks, we will engage with Boeing almost on a formal basis."
Emirates initially needs 40 aircraft to replace their oldest 77W's by 2017-2020, but the potential requirment is much higher.
Clark also said Emirates may look at more A380-orders, depening on future capacity at their hub airport, but they don't have immediate plans for a new order.

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1362662163.html

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 11 Mar 2013, 16:37

Boeing has made conditional offers to IAG (British Airways), Emirates and Japan Airlines to be the 777X launch customers.

Boeing will seek Board approval to offer the upgraded 777X as early as April. GE has almost locked an exclusivity for its GE9X engine.

Boeing aims to have 777-9X (406-seats) by late 2019, 777-8LX (353-seats) in 2021. Should we add three and a half years to that like for the 787? Emirates is focusing on the latter.
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 11 Mar 2013, 19:38

sn26567 wrote:Should we add three and a half years to that like for the 787?
The 777X will not be that revolutionary. It will not be a clean sheet design. The supply chain will be more comparable with the current 777 (while the 787 is an example of failed extreme outsourcing) and because of that, less complicated and difficult to control. Boeing learned a lot from the things they developed for the 787 and the failures they experienced. Just as with the 737MAX, Boeing probably added extra safety in the planned time frame. Probably some other things I forget.
So no, probably not.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 11 Mar 2013, 21:01

sn26567 wrote:GE has almost locked an exclusivity for its GE9X engine.
A pic of the new GE engine for the 777X:
Image
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by earthman » 12 Mar 2013, 09:57

Some airlines are going to be a bit unhappy with that exclusivity.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 12 Mar 2013, 13:28

earthman wrote:Some airlines are going to be a bit unhappy with that exclusivity.
GE already has the exclusivity on the 777-300ER engine, airlines don't seem that unhappy with it. And the A350 only offer RR engines.

Certain airlines probably prefer two engine options, but I don't think it will be such a big issue. The GE90 is currently by far the best in it's class (actually the only one in a special class). GE will build on that, together with their GEnX experience. So I think most airlines and Boeing already have the most thrust in GE when talking about these new engines. Especially those who already use the current GE90 on the 77W.

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