Airbus A350 XWB news

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by flightlover » 23 Oct 2012, 12:51

earthman wrote:How come they paint the tail seperately from the plane?
To remind the painters and other workers for which customer the plane is destined?

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 23 Oct 2012, 20:38

French Prime Minister inaugurates A350 XWB Final Assembly Line

Facility named after Airbus pioneer and founding father, Roger Béteille

French Prime Minister, Jean-Marc Ayrault and Airbus President and Chief Executive Officer, Fabrice Brégier this morning officially inaugurated the 74,000 square-metre A350 XWB Final Assembly Line (FAL), in Toulouse, France. At full production, the FAL will employ some 1,500 people who will build up to ten aircraft a month as from 2018.

The ceremony, held inside the FAL, was attended by French political representatives, regional officials representatives from other Airbus home governments, as well as Airbus customers, suppliers, top executives and over 1,000 employees.

Innovation is deeply rooted in our DNA and this is fully demonstrated on the A350 XWB, the world’s newest, most advanced airliner. Today we honour Roger Béteille, an exceptional aviation pioneer and we name the A350 XWB Final Assembly Line after him, one of our industry’s greatest innovators,” said Fabrice Brégier, Airbus President & CEO.

It is a great honour for me to have my name associated with this magnificent, state of the art A350 Final Assembly Line, “said Roger Béteille. “Airbus’ success is a concrete example of how European partners working hand in hand can achieve incredible things together and this has been an essential ingredient to becoming the world’s largest and premier aircraft manufacturer.”

Guests at the ceremony were able to see the A350 XWB coming to life, with the first two aircraft (the static aircraft and the first flyable aircraft, MSN1) at different stages of final assembly.

The static aircraft, which will be used solely for ground tests, has nearly completed assembly, with a full fuselage, two wings and the vertical tail plane joined. The aircraft will be transferred to the static test hangar at the Toulouse Jean-Luc Lagardère site to be prepared for static tests to start in spring 2013. The first flyable A350 XWB (MSN1) is also progressing well, with the fuselage already joined. The wing, vertical and horizontal tail plane for MSN1 are inside the FAL and will be joined to the fuselage in early November.

Béteille was one of Airbus’ four founding fathers. He was instrumental in the development of fly by wire flight controls, one of Airbus’ key innovations which has since become the industry standard. Béteille’s was also responsible for the introduction of the world’s first two engine wide-body aircraft, the A300 which performed its first flight 40 years ago. With the inauguration of this new FAL, Airbus celebrates the world’s newest generation two engine wide-body aircraft, the A350 XWB.

23 October 2012 Press Release
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by Juulke » 23 Oct 2012, 23:56

earthman wrote:How come they paint the tail seperately from the plane?
The tails are seperately build in Stade Germany and they are already painted when leaving.

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by cathay belgium » 24 Oct 2012, 00:06

Hi,
The tail is painted before because of the balance,once fitted on the body,the paint will change the balance and it's damn hard to adjust the balance then..
You can see it at the airbussite,all virgincoloured except the tails!
greetz
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Oct 2012, 00:26

cathay belgium wrote:Hi,
The tail is painted before because of the balance,once fitted on the body,the paint will change the balance and it's damn hard to adjust the balance then..
You can see it at the airbussite,all virgincoloured except the tails!
greetz
cxb
It's not usual that the whole vertical tail section is already painted... Normally just the vertical stabilizer is painted as that is the part that has to be balanced. At least, that's how Boeing does it, maybe Airbus does it different?

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 01 Nov 2012, 13:07

United is in talks with Airbus about buying A350-1000 jets, a step toward the first U.S. purchase for the planemaker’s largest twin-engine model.

The world’s biggest airline is considering the 350-seat plane to replace older Boeing 747s. United already has agreed to buy 25 of the mid-sized A350-900 variant under a 2009 deal that included 25 of Boeing’s 787 Dreamliners.

More from Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-3 ... -747s.html
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 02 Nov 2012, 16:09

A step-by-step overview of the final assembly of the Airbus A350XWB

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 02 Dec 2012, 23:12

The first A350 structure has come out of the Toulouse workshops for resistance tests. It will not survive these destructive tests, which must confirm that it will resist at more than 150% of the worst flight conditions. The Boeing 777 had brilliantly passed these tests with a rupture at 154%. The A380 was less lucky: 147%. This was corrected by reducing the maximum load and slightly reinforcing the structure. The Boeing 787 made it even worse with a rupture at only 120%, compelling the engineers to re-design the assembly of the wing to the fuselage (which explains part of the long delay).

Good luck to Airbus for this heavy testing of the A350 XWB.

Image
The prototype towed from the assembly plant to the test hall

Image
The prototype positioned in the static test hall
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 02 Dec 2012, 23:21

sn26567 wrote:The first A350 structure has come out of the Toulouse workshops for resistance tests. It will not survive these destructive tests, which must confirm that it will resist at more than 150% of the worst flight conditions. The Boeing 777 had brilliantly passed these tests with a rupture at 154%. The A380 was less lucky: 147%. This was corrected by reducing the maximum load and slightly reinforcing the structure. The Boeing 787 made it even worse with a rupture at only 120%, compelling the engineers to re-design the assembly of the wing to the fuselage (which explains part of the long delay).
Oh god, bad memories...probably one of the biggest set backs in the whole 787 test-program (together with the in flight fire). Later tests showed they overdesigned several other parts of the 787...they better designed the essential parts more carefully... :|

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 03 Dec 2012, 18:38

Qatar sees bigger!

Qatar Airways and Airbus have signed an amendment to convert its existing firm order for 20 A350-800s, 40 A350-900s and 20 A350-1000s to 43 A350-900s and 37 A350-1000s. Qatar Airways’ total order for A350 XWB aircraft remains at 80 A350 aircraft (see detailed press release).

Wouldn't the A350-1000 be the real competitor for the 777W? With a head start actually.
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 03 Dec 2012, 20:08

sn26567 wrote:
Wouldn't the A350-1000 be the real competitor for the 777W? With a head start actually.
Cathay (who ordered the A350-1000) doesn't see it like that. Emirates said the A351 is not good enough to be a 77W replacement. Qatar previously also said the A351 will not be a full 77W replacement.

But is it intended to be a 77W competitor? Yes.

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by cnc » 03 Dec 2012, 20:21

MR_Boeing wrote:
sn26567 wrote:
Wouldn't the A350-1000 be the real competitor for the 777W? With a head start actually.
Cathay (who ordered the A350-1000) doesn't see it like that. Emirates said the A351 is not good enough to be a 77W replacement. Qatar previously also said the A351 will not be a full 77W replacement.

But is it intended to be a 77W competitor? Yes.
and just what part of the 77W is better than the A351?

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 03 Dec 2012, 20:48

cnc wrote: and just what part of the 77W is better than the A351?
None probably, did I say that? I said most airlines don't see it as a 77W replacement (because it isn't 'good' enough), I didn't say the 77W is better, did I?
Many airlines (of which Emirates and Qatar publicly) believe the A351 doesn't offer enough improvements over the 77W. If Boeing comes with the 777-9X, that aircraft can probably beat the A351 (at least, that's what Emirates say, and looking at the amount of airlines publicly stating their interest in the 777X compared to these interested in the A351, I believe it's clear what most airlines think).

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 04 Dec 2012, 12:36

First flyable A350 XWB 'MSN-001' structurally complete

Aircraft makes its first journey ‘on wheels

Airbus has successfully completed the main structural assembly and system connection of A350 XWB ‘MSN-001’ – the first flight-test aircraft. The aircraft is depicted here on its wheels for the very first time moving out of the main assembly hall (Station 40) at the recently inaugurated “Roger Béteille” A350 XWB Final Assembly Line in Toulouse. It then entered the adjacent indoor ground test station (Station 30).

Image

The assembly work performed in Station 40 included the successful electrical power-on of the aircraft's entire fuselage and wings. Soon work in Station 30 will start by testing the aircraft's hydraulic system, followed by the full electric and hydraulic power-on of the aircraft which will be completed by around the end of the year. This will mark the start of several weeks of comprehensive functional system testing.

After the A350 XWB MSN-001 exits station 30, the aircraft will go through a series of extensive production and certification / development tests, be painted and have its engines installed. It will then be delivered to the flight-line and be readied for its first flight in mid-2013.

4 December 2012 Press Release
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by tsv » 07 Dec 2012, 05:54

MR_Boeing wrote:
cnc wrote: and just what part of the 77W is better than the A351?
None probably, did I say that? I said most airlines don't see it as a 77W replacement (because it isn't 'good' enough), I didn't say the 77W is better, did I?
Many airlines (of which Emirates and Qatar publicly) believe the A351 doesn't offer enough improvements over the 77W. If Boeing comes with the 777-9X, that aircraft can probably beat the A351 (at least, that's what Emirates say, and looking at the amount of airlines publicly stating their interest in the 777X compared to these interested in the A351, I believe it's clear what most airlines think).


Yeah right, a newly designed A351 will never be good enough to compete with a tarted up 777. :mrgreen

Clearly you Fan Boys will grasp at absolutely anything to reach the desired conclusion - even comments by EK & QR Management of all people! Ever occur to you there may be Commercial motives for whatever spin they happen to be dribbling? And does it ever occur to you that if B develop a 777-9X that "beats" the A351, as you put it, that A just may be able to improve the A351 so that it "beats" the 777-9X?

Aviation is a highly fluid industry, improvements are being made all the time - the chances of anyone coming up with an "unbeatable" aircraft are zero.

PS Anyone know why my Mr Green Smilie symbol doesn't work?

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 07 Dec 2012, 07:27

tsv wrote:
Yeah right, a newly designed A351 will never be good enough to compete with a tarted up 777. :mrgreen:

Clearly you Fan Boys will grasp at absolutely anything to reach the desired conclusion - even comments by EK & QR Management of all people! Ever occur to you there may be Commercial motives for whatever spin they happen to be dribbling? And does it ever occur to you that if B develop a 777-9X that "beats" the A351, as you put it, that A just may be able to improve the A351 so that it "beats" the 777-9X?

Aviation is a highly fluid industry, improvements are being made all the time - the chances of anyone coming up with an "unbeatable" aircraft are zero.

PS Anyone know why my Mr Green Smilie symbol doesn't work?
Oh and you are clearly not one of these Airbus Fan Boys ;) (btw, your Mr Green smilie didn't work because it wasn't complete, there was no ":" behind "green" only in front of it)

The 77W and 772LR designs are from the early 2000's, both highly efficient aircraft, mainly the 77W. Put new composite wings on it, put new engines on it (less thrust as you don't need that with the bigger composite wings, but seriously more effecient), make some aerodynamic improvements not directly related to the wings (tail section,...), do some effort on the fuselage (by making use of other, stronger materials you can decrease the space between the outside of the fuselage and the cabin, making 10-abreast (almost) as comfortable as the current 9-abreast (making it more efficient),... and you have totally new plane.

And of course Airbus can build again a better one, but currently can't even build what they have currently on the table.

Airlines that have the A351 on order say it isn't their 77W replacement. Not for Cathay, not for Emirates, not for Qatar (and Asiana isn't using the 77W I believe). It's an aircraft that's somewhere situated between the normal 777-300 and the -300ER (I'm not saying it isn't better, I'm saying it doesn't offer the right improvements yet).

But the future will tell.

btw, the fact that tens of airlines show their interest in the 777X, but not in the A351 doesn't make you wonder why? Of course they want the 777X come to offer (as it will make Airbus more aware of the competition and may try to improve their A351 again), but they don't have to adore the idea of Boeing for that, tough certain airlines certainly do.
If you have a good basic design, you don't need to start all over again for a competitor that comes about 15-20 years later as long as you can change the engines, the wings,...

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by tsv » 10 Dec 2012, 15:14

MR_Boeing wrote:
tsv wrote:
Yeah right, a newly designed A351 will never be good enough to compete with a tarted up 777. :mrgreen:

Clearly you Fan Boys will grasp at absolutely anything to reach the desired conclusion - even comments by EK & QR Management of all people! Ever occur to you there may be Commercial motives for whatever spin they happen to be dribbling? And does it ever occur to you that if B develop a 777-9X that "beats" the A351, as you put it, that A just may be able to improve the A351 so that it "beats" the 777-9X?

Aviation is a highly fluid industry, improvements are being made all the time - the chances of anyone coming up with an "unbeatable" aircraft are zero.

PS Anyone know why my Mr Green Smilie symbol doesn't work?
Oh and you are clearly not one of these Airbus Fan Boys ;) (btw, your Mr Green smilie didn't work because it wasn't complete, there was no ":" behind "green" only in front of it)
Actually I prefer Russian Metal, Airbus A/C don't excite me for some reason, B even less so.

MR_Boeing wrote: The 77W and 772LR designs are from the early 2000's, both highly efficient aircraft, mainly the 77W. Put new composite wings on it, put new engines on it (less thrust as you don't need that with the bigger composite wings, but seriously more effecient), make some aerodynamic improvements not directly related to the wings (tail section,...), do some effort on the fuselage (by making use of other, stronger materials you can decrease the space between the outside of the fuselage and the cabin, making 10-abreast (almost) as comfortable as the current 9-abreast (making it more efficient),... and you have totally new plane.
No you just have a tarted up old one.

Consider History. A320 came out long after 737. Didn't kill it as 737 still sells really well but still comfortably outsold it in last 10 years. Even when both M's went for NEO A still outsold B easily.

A330 developed after 767. Kills it stone dead.

787 developed after A330. Undeniably in the process of killing it.

A380 developed after 747. And Killed it.

You could go back further if you wanted but the outcome would be the same, newer techology results in better product.


MR_Boeing wrote: And of course Airbus can build again a better one, but currently can't even build what they have currently on the table.
Yeah right and meanwhile B is years ahead on deliveries!
MR_Boeing wrote: Airlines that have the A351 on order say it isn't their 77W replacement. Not for Cathay, not for Emirates, not for Qatar (and Asiana isn't using the 77W I believe). It's an aircraft that's somewhere situated between the normal 777-300 and the -300ER (I'm not saying it isn't better, I'm saying it doesn't offer the right improvements yet).

But the future will tell.

btw, the fact that tens of airlines show their interest in the 777X, but not in the A351 doesn't make you wonder why? Of course they want the 777X come to offer (as it will make Airbus more aware of the competition and may try to improve their A351 again), but they don't have to adore the idea of Boeing for that, tough certain airlines certainly do.
If you have a good basic design, you don't need to start all over again for a competitor that comes about 15-20 years later as long as you can change the engines, the wings,...
Let's wait and see what they actually buy in the next 10 years, talk is cheap!
Last edited by tsv on 11 Dec 2012, 13:44, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 10 Dec 2012, 15:23

Good, glad we don't agree, back on topic now :thumbup:

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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by sn26567 » 22 Jan 2013, 22:21

Airbus is wary that the current Boeing 787 problems might have an influence on the A350. Airbus management fears that the certification authorities (FAA in the US and EASA in Europe) will be much more cautious and will strengthen the tests, which would further delay the commercial launch of the aircraft and lead to additional costs.

Like the Dreamliner, the Airbus A350 uses lots of composite materials and shifts some of the mechanics from hydraulic systems to electrical ones, which is where Boeing has run into trouble. But there are also differences: Boeing built the 787 with a fully composite fuselage, whereas the A350 wraps composite panels around a metal frame, and relies less on electronic systems for flight controls.

Airbus also relies less on subcontractors to build strategic elements. (Incidentally, one of Boeing subcontractors is Finmeccanica, which has built the centre part of the fuselage so badly that Boeing had to do the finishing itself: that was one of the causes of the 3 and a half years delay of the entry into service of the 787. And the same Finmeccanica is the parent company of AnsaldoBreda, the constructor of the ill-fated Fyra trains!).

Airbus said on Thursday that it would see if any rulings arising out of the grounding of Boeing Dreamliner aircraft affected its A350 plane, and expressed support for Boeing.
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Re: Airbus A350 news

Post by RoMax » 22 Jan 2013, 22:45

sn26567 wrote: Airbus also relies less on subcontractors to build strategic elements. (Incidentally, one of Boeing subcontractors is Finmeccanica, which has built the centre part of the fuselage so badly that Boeing had to do the finishing itself: that was one of the causes of the 3 and a half years delay of the entry into service of the 787. And the same Finmeccanica is the parent company of AnsaldoBreda, the constructor of the ill-fated Fyra trains!).
Not only Finmeccanica, also Alenia Aeronautica seriously messed 787 production. That company was responsible for the design and the construction of the horizontal stabilizers of the 787. Problems in the design and even more so in the production caused huge delays in the 787-production. Eventually they got things straight after Boeing came to help, but Boeing learned from it and pulled back the 787-9 design and early-production away from Alenia. Boeing decided to do the design themself (resulting in quite a different design compared to the 787-8) and also the early production will be in-house. Only when they believe external suppliers can do it without problems, they'll move out parts of the production again. Recently Boeing bought a new factory where they'll make composite materials that will be used in the 787.
Probably the biggest of all mistakes in the 787-project...all the outsourcing. Since the start of the project, Boeing took over several companies and factories building and designing parts of the 787 because these companies couldn't handle it. Many other companies (like Alenia) lost the contract for the 787-9 (which will see a LOT of improvements over the 787-8, the -9 is still expected to be on weight and on planned performance, something that can't be said about the early -8's).

Anyway good luck to Airbus. EASA and the FAA for sure will take a very close look at the A350. The 787 underwent the most extensive test program ever, still many faults didn't came out until a year after EIS. It's their luck that they don't have such a revolutionary electrical system and that they don't work with so many different suppliers. And the suppliers they work with already proved their skills in previous programs.

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