Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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tolipanebas
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 05 Sep 2009, 20:21

Conti764 wrote:I have seen the works at the LCC. It is quite a long walk to the gates. Right now, it looks like there will be a store and bar/restaurant in the old terminal and after that nothing untill you're at the gate (except maybe some vending machines?). There are toilets somewhere in the middle of the old C-pier and where the C-pier makes a small turn towards the satelite, people go down to ground level to a number of remote gates.
What old C-pier? The old C-pier got demolished years ago as far as I know?

Are you talking about the narrow passage to the remote satellite?
Conti764 wrote:Planes park in front of this pier and to roughly half the satelite.
Isn't that where the state entrance now is located?

Will that be re-located to somewhere else then?

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Conti764
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Conti764 » 05 Sep 2009, 21:16

tolipanebas wrote:
What old C-pier? The old C-pier got demolished years ago as far as I know?

Are you talking about the narrow passage to the remote satellite?
Yep, that's the one I'm talking about and actually this is the C-pier. The torn down infrastructure was called 'finger south' and was merely an extension of the C-pier, although integrated into the C-pier (gatenumbering,...)

Isn't that where the state entrance now is located?

Will that be re-located to somewhere else then?
What is the state entrance? The only entrance to the satelite is at land side, the part which was once a service road at airside and now can be reached from P27.

A large part of the concrete appron around the satelite has been renovated and new taxilines are painted, following the stand numbering of appron 3. Roughly half way around the satelite, the old numbering continues, so I assume low cost planes will park up to this point around the satelite and across the service road from pier C.

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tolipanebas
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 05 Sep 2009, 23:16

Conti764 wrote: What is the state entrance? The only entrance to the satelite is at land side, the part which was once a service road at airside and now can be reached from P27.
About half way down the C pier (or the finger to the satelite if you want), there's an access straight from the apron onto the 'binnenkoer' and this access is often used by officials visiting Belgium.

airazurxtror
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 19 Sep 2009, 21:29

The Belgian government has decided to put a new tax on every train ticket to or from the Brussels airport.
The tax will finance part of the cost of the so-called Diabolo.
The tax is 2,05 euros for the moment; it will be raised to 4,10 euros when the Diabolo is put in service (thought to be in 2012).
Source : "Le Soir", today, page 50.

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Conti764
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Conti764 » 20 Sep 2009, 11:53

airazurxtror wrote:The Belgian government has decided to put a new tax on every train ticket to or from the Brussels airport.
The tax will finance part of the cost of the so-called Diabolo.
The tax is 2,05 euros for the moment; it will be raised to 4,10 euros when the Diabolo is put in service (thought to be in 2012).
Source : "Le Soir", today, page 50.
Or how do we jeapordise our own investments? :roll:

Are they going to put a simular tax on the trains from and to the stations in Liege or Leuven, which cost heaps of money as well and are more expensive then they should be?

If I would take a train to the airport, I'd have to pay 11 euros, with that raise, it will cost me 15,10 euros, or an increase with 37%. Given the fact that I travel from an end station, relatively far away from the airport this percentage matters for most people, and will only grow from every trainstation closer to the airport. :roll:

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SN_fan
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by SN_fan » 27 Aug 2010, 00:16

Isn't the low cost terminal perfectly suited for "shuttle service" flights. E.g every hour to compete against high speed train? (or isn't this allowed regarding legislation). I could imagine a flight every hour to e.g. Cologne or Paris with very reduced check-in times comparable with antwerp and baggage reclaim area. If they could get the same speed in those airports wouldn't it become viable to attract premium passengers ?

Like http://www.usairways.com/en-US/travelto ... tpath.html

dsa330

Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by dsa330 » 28 Aug 2010, 18:29

brussels airport is quite expensive, and i even heard today that, in most european airlines (e.g. KLM) they don't have to pay landing / take off charges at schiphol, but sabena in their time did have to do it, and prlly brussels airlines aswell...

a bit sad / strange i think.

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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Acid-drop » 29 Aug 2010, 12:15

It's all about the "new" aviation world.
We clearly see that low cost airlines and low cost airport are part of the game, and BRU keeps ignoring that.
Result, all stats show their are loosing their european pax at the speed of light while CRL is increasing at the speed of light. Same story for cargo, LGG is now 30% bigger and also growing faster.
The only sector growing is the one where is no "new" aviation yet. But for how long ?

I don't know how the diabolo project can change anything. CRL didn't need a train line to be what it is.
It's only for Antwerp anyway, Brussels, Leuven and Liège are already well connected.
Same for other infrastructure, they have what they need, they just don't use it as they should.

For me it's clear, it's all in the hand of the management team, old way of thinking against the new way of thinking and making business.
One or two more years and it will be the point of no return for BRU.

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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 29 Aug 2010, 12:52

I, too, think that BRU is wrong in scorning the LCC and/or yielding to the SN blackmail.
I presume that they know what they do and fully accept the consequences.
A lot of people that are at present forced to go to CRL would much prefer to take their LCC flight at BRU (provided that it is not put at pier A, of course).

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cathay belgium
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by cathay belgium » 29 Aug 2010, 13:46

Hi,

yes,yes,.. but..
* why should FR leave CRL for BRU now they're happy there?
* why should BRU go for LCC anyway ? They can't give the presents the LCC airports give to FR !
Other airliners won't accept this !
Guess just a terminal without a bench or food will do the job!
Which 'main' airport in europe accept FR anyway for now exc. BCN/MAD/LGW ?
( No AMS/LHR/FCO/TXL/CDG/FRA/... )
* Call me old-fashioned but I think BRU is fine today !
Let them first learn with a possible growth of easyjet and air arabia before they accept other LCC..
Besides LCC at main airports isn't the thing to do..
I would prefer a 100 eur of SN light above a 50 eur of easyjet if I had the choice ! ;)
But the hardest thing is to get a good ticket at nice flight times with SN :lol:
CX-B
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airazurxtror
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 29 Aug 2010, 15:56

cathay belgium wrote: Which 'main' airport in europe accept FR anyway for now exc. BCN/MAD/LGW ?
( No AMS/LHR/FCO/TXL/CDG/FRA/... )
* Call me old-fashioned but I think BRU is fine today !
Ryanair goes also to DUB, SXF, MAN, MRS, NCE...
Ryanair slowly shifting flights from GRO to BCN indicates perhaps a change of politics.
And : BRU is not one of the main airports in Europe either ...

If you think that BRU is fine as it is and shouldn't change, I am afraid that, yes, you are somewhat out-of-date ...

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cathay belgium
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by cathay belgium » 29 Aug 2010, 17:41

Hi,

Indeed FR goes to DUB, SN not! only FR subsidary EI ;) ,
but still there's a change.. no SXF but TXL,yes Berlin gonna change next year but
MRS-NCE nice destinations but fine so..
Business people don't fly FR on these routes because they need more daily/flexible flights,
think only travelling people and leisure/inhabitants/students use these 'cheap' FR flights.
Wonder if Berlin Brandenburg gonna accept LCC!
FR was talking about leaving Brandenburg when SXF disappears,
again a change of politics or just the way it's gonna be and stays the same..
BCN is indeed a change of politics but it stays just a spanish descision about the
decreasing numbers of pax that use BCN :!:
So BCN only accepted FR because they were desperate :o !

Really don't think that BRU must set the spot on LCC !
First survive the expansion of EZY at BRU !
But hey, a lot of talk but still NO new routes, already waiting for more than a year now after the
announcement of expansion !

I think it's better for both regions in Belgium that FR don't leave CRL,
if BRU accept them it means NO more FR .. but just a replacement of flights!
Better keep the slots at BRU for more headlighted airlines like TG,Singapore,ANA and the others..
( Yes, we may still hope that they come to BRU 8-) )
airazurxtror wrote:If you think that BRU is fine as it is and shouldn't change, I am afraid that, yes, you are somewhat out-of-date ...
:lol: That's nice to hear from a guy who's double my age !! :lol:

But that's just my tought, maybe I should learn from more older and wiser men.. ;)

CX-B

PS Now the rumours of FR setting a new base at EIN I definately not hoping on a change to BRU because
these flights should decrease flights on EIN and EIN is just 20' for me and BRU 1h :D
New types planned for 2019 : A223
New types flown : AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,DH Dragonrapide,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

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Conti764
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Conti764 » 29 Aug 2010, 18:24

Acid-drop wrote:It's all about the "new" aviation world.
We clearly see that low cost airlines and low cost airport are part of the game, and BRU keeps ignoring that.
Result, all stats show their are loosing their european pax at the speed of light while CRL is increasing at the speed of light. Same story for cargo, LGG is now 30% bigger and also growing faster.
The only sector growing is the one where is no "new" aviation yet. But for how long ?

I don't know how the diabolo project can change anything. CRL didn't need a train line to be what it is.
It's only for Antwerp anyway, Brussels, Leuven and Liège are already well connected.
Same for other infrastructure, they have what they need, they just don't use it as they should.

For me it's clear, it's all in the hand of the management team, old way of thinking against the new way of thinking and making business.
One or two more years and it will be the point of no return for BRU.
You're wrong in your conclusion.

Sure, CRL is growing, but the entire low cost segment is growing and the biggest European low cost airline has a hub at CRL, so it would be disgraceful if CRL didn't grow.

The growing sector you refer to is the long haul sector and I can't imagine who would want to fly 6-8 hrs or even more in FR's low cost concept. It is OK for domestic flights, but not for long haul.

And it's long haul which brings in the majority of money. The bigger the plane, the bigger the fares an airline has to pay to land at an airport, the more passengers it brings in,...

Diabolo is not just to connect Antwerp, but it wil increase the efficiency of BRU train station tremendously. No longer it will be required to implement a lengthy change of direction and in theory it would be possible to connect city pairs via BRU.

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Conti764
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Conti764 » 29 Aug 2010, 18:28

airazurxtror wrote:
cathay belgium wrote: Which 'main' airport in europe accept FR anyway for now exc. BCN/MAD/LGW ?
( No AMS/LHR/FCO/TXL/CDG/FRA/... )
* Call me old-fashioned but I think BRU is fine today !
Ryanair goes also to DUB, SXF, MAN, MRS, NCE...
Ryanair slowly shifting flights from GRO to BCN indicates perhaps a change of politics.
And : BRU is not one of the main airports in Europe either ...

If you think that BRU is fine as it is and shouldn't change, I am afraid that, yes, you are somewhat out-of-date ...
BRU is a main airport in Europe because it is the biggest and most important airport of the city and market it serves. It may not be a major player on a European scale, but it is the main airport of Brussels and Belgium.

BRU is doing a good job. They keep attracting new long haul players, expand their offer, keep turning a profit and do their best to satisfy full service carriers. Contrary to AMS (EZY) or MAD (FR) they lack a strong home player and need to focus on their core business: full service carriers.

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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 29 Aug 2010, 20:09

Conti764 wrote: BRU is doing a good job. They keep attracting new long haul players, expand their offer, keep turning a profit and do their best to satisfy full service carriers.
That is known as "wishful thinking".
And one can see that the old Sabena mood is still alive and well : the priority is to satisfy the carrier, not the customer.
As for BRU attracting Indian and other exotic long haul players : BRU will get them as long as they can't get spots at more prestigious airports. And with the development of high-speed transport such as TGV - AMS and PAR , and even LHR will be more attractive and offer more opportunities.
The future of BRU is in getting a sizeable proportion of LCC operators.

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SN_fan
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by SN_fan » 29 Aug 2010, 20:24

airazurxtror wrote:the priority is to satisfy the carrier, not the customer.
But how happy would you be as a customer who paid higher taxes than people who would depart from the low cost terminal and you would then have to walk that long way towards your gate and the low cost passengers not?

I think it's good with an low cost airport and a "full cost" airport and if MAp would like to diversify maybe they could buy a stake in CRL as they might cannibalize BRU if a better product would be offered to the LCC.

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Atlantis
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Atlantis » 29 Aug 2010, 20:40

Hmmm I see that some of the posts are not 100% correct.


1) Diabolo. Diabolo is not only for travellers but also for people who work on the airport. Diabolo is one project in the whole START-project to connect Brussels Airport in a proper way. De Lijn with a dozen new buslines is also part of it.


2) LCC and LCT. Maybe new for all you guys but the whole LC-project is far away at this moment. There is no intention in the near future to start it up again, but it is still possible.
BTW a part of the old terminal is now used by Jetairfly, Thomas Cook Airlines, Corendon, etc, which is a very good thing.

But LC is still an important factor at the airport. We have now a dozen LCC at the airport and their number of pax are raising year after year.


BRU is still doing a good job and it will go better. 2011 will be a very important year. 2012 and 2013 will be also interesting.
Extra-EU is going fine with monthly 7% more pax. But saying that BRU is loosing cargo, pax etc is not fair because you can't compare every other airport in BE with BRU.

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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 30 Aug 2010, 12:21

Atlantis wrote: We have now a dozen LCC at the airport and their number of pax are raising year after year.
I didn't realize there were so many. Could you please give their names ?

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Atlantis
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Atlantis » 30 Aug 2010, 16:15

airazurxtror wrote:
Atlantis wrote: We have now a dozen LCC at the airport and their number of pax are raising year after year.
I didn't realize there were so many. Could you please give their names ?

At this moment I think it is Easyjet, Aer Lingus, Flybe, Blue Air, Vueling. It could be more
A new one will be Air Arabia.

In the past we had also Skyeurope, Danube Wings, Windjet, Atlas Blue, etc

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Atlantis
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Re: Infrastructure of Brussels Airport

Post by Atlantis » 17 Dec 2010, 13:07

Map decided to extend the A pier, or like we call it A pier West. There is at this moment no timeschedule as a market study has to follow.

The A pier will get 20 extra gates and will increase drastically the capacity of the airport. This will also include the development of the Star Alliance presence.

Beside the extension of the A pier there will be other projects.

total budget will be 170 million euro.

Source: Map

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