British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

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regi
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British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 14 Dec 2009, 16:12

Devastating news:
going on strike for 12 days - in the Christmas period.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009 ... mas-strike

The managment of BA should come with a shock and awe response:
fly in from everywhere in the world flight crew with double pay. There will be plenty of job seeking experienced and qualified personnel. In the USA, Asia, Australia, Europe ( free employment rules for Europeans ! ) , ...enough personnel that is qualified for all the airplanes BA uses.

Let them strike for 12 days. Make it even more hostile by refusing to negotiate.
The unions will bleed heavely.

And than come the conditions of BA: 50% pay cut. 50% holiday cut. 50% pension plan cut. Take it or leave it. Please be angry and strike a bit more ( and empty the unions pockets - just like Thatcher did with Scargill and his gang )

If you call me a radicalist, imagine you are a passenger who booked a ticket in high season with BA. 1 day strike is one thing. But 12 days, just like that? It causes such a shock that it may provoke unseen counter attacks. The Japanese also didn't expect nuclear bombs when they bombed Pearl Harbour.

And these are words from a person who respects the existance of unions as protection against power abuse.

cnc
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Re: BA will go on strike for 12 days

Post by cnc » 14 Dec 2009, 16:19

or how the employees will ruin the company :shock:
management sure made some great errors but this action is absurd.

sdbelgium
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Re: BA will go on strike for 12 days

Post by sdbelgium » 14 Dec 2009, 16:37

cnc wrote:or how the employees will ruin the company :shock:
And theirselves included

regi
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 14 Dec 2009, 16:38

read the reactions...Even I as a Belgian remembered The Iron Lady.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel ... 956015.ece

regi
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 14 Dec 2009, 16:41

And in the mean time Emirates launches a A380 flight to Seoul.

"welcome at the airline where people love to work"

Easyjet and Ryanair will profit from it. And maybe SNBA as well + the high speed train .

andorra-airport
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by andorra-airport » 14 Dec 2009, 17:01

BA cabin crew are paid TWICE as much as rivals on VIRGIN ATLANTIC.........

Super Baloo
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Joined: 07 May 2009, 13:33

Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by Super Baloo » 14 Dec 2009, 17:14

Your suggestion is unrealistic. You may think that cabin crews are just bar waitress in a nice suit and that you can change them overnight as they don't require any training but it is not the case.

The purpose of announcing a strike is to give time for negociations. It is sad but nowadays, management will not listen to you if you don't threat them. The time when you could discuss openly and freely every week between the unions and the management is over. Managers (and yourself apparently) think that unions are useless and that the world would turn far better without them. The simple fact that you take Emirates and Ryanair as example of good working conditions companies proofs that you dislike any communication and interaction between employees and management. Managers are always right and crews always bitch about everything and are always wrong, aren't they ?
BA cabin crews had to announce something important to come with some power at the negociation table.
The threat is so important that BA management will be forced to negociate as soon as possible and will not be able to ignore anymore the claims of its employees.
It is a bluff from the cabin crews. If they win, this threat will be over in two days. If the bluff doesn't take, than BA is gonna deeply suffer from this action.

Before targeting the cabin crews, think of what could bring 12,500 different persons to an extreme action as a strike during the Christmas holiday. They are maybe more concerned about the future of BA than you think and realise that unless thay announce a strike, the management is gonna keep going in the wall as they do for the moment.

BA management is not known to be the wiser management in the world and its company leading time has been a catastrophy lately.
A strike can be the shock BA management needs to understand finally that they should change there ways of dealing with its employees and there ways of dealing with the industry they are in.
Some countries benefit from a revolution, some others don't. It can be the same for a company. Wait and see.

Super Baloo
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Joined: 07 May 2009, 13:33

Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by Super Baloo » 14 Dec 2009, 17:28

"BA cabin crew are paid TWICE as much as rivals on VIRGIN ATLANTIC........."

So ? Why should BA crews accept a pay cut just because a competitor pays crap salaries to its own employees ?
You're probably paid 10 TIMES more than the chinese of the african man (or woman) that does the same job as you do. Wouldn't you think it would be fair to cut your own salary by ten to match theirs ?

My company (registered in an European country) pays the crews 5 or 10 times more than the same workers in China and we still get business from there.

Salaries are not everything. BA lost hundreds millions euros in the Terminal 5 fiasco. Do you think any top managers saw his salary reduced of was fired because of that ?
It is so much easier to target the crews.

(and I'm not a cabin crew)

regi
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 14 Dec 2009, 17:43

Super Baloo wrote:Your suggestion is unrealistic. You may think that cabin crews are just bar waitress in a nice suit and that you can change them overnight as they don't require any training but it is not the case.

The purpose of announcing a strike is to give time for negociations. It is sad but nowadays, management will not listen to you if you don't threat them. The time when you could discuss openly and freely every week between the unions and the management is over. Managers (and yourself apparently) think that unions are useless and that the world would turn far better without them. The simple fact that you take Emirates and Ryanair as example of good working conditions companies proofs that you dislike any communication and interaction between employees and management. Managers are always right and crews always bitch about everything and are always wrong, aren't they ?
BA cabin crews had to announce something important to come with some power at the negociation table.
The threat is so important that BA management will be forced to negociate as soon as possible and will not be able to ignore anymore the claims of its employees.
It is a bluff from the cabin crews. If they win, this threat will be over in two days. If the bluff doesn't take, than BA is gonna deeply suffer from this action.

Before targeting the cabin crews, think of what could bring 12,500 different persons to an extreme action as a strike during the Christmas holiday. They are maybe more concerned about the future of BA than you think and realise that unless thay announce a strike, the management is gonna keep going in the wall as they do for the moment.

BA management is not known to be the wiser management in the world and its company leading time has been a catastrophy lately.
A strike can be the shock BA management needs to understand finally that they should change there ways of dealing with its employees and there ways of dealing with the industry they are in.
Some countries benefit from a revolution, some others don't. It can be the same for a company. Wait and see.
Typical reaction: you didn't read my last line.
I do approve the existance of the unions. But in this case as in similar cases, they have overplayed their hand. You call it bluff yourself. Well, sorry, it is not a game. It is serious business.
Therefore all the people involved should be woken up with a very serious shock. You can not threat the managment with a strike. They have no bonusses this year anyway because of the losses.
I did not call Ryanair and Emirates examples of good working conditions ( they are not , close family works for both and are unhappy ) . But I used it as examples where the managment does it the opposite way and is succesful. ( for the time being )

andorra-airport
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by andorra-airport » 14 Dec 2009, 18:00

So ? Why should BA crews accept a pay cut just because a competitor pays crap salaries to its own employees ?
The pilots have agreed a pay cut. Many managers have accepted voluntary redundancy. The engineers are going to work more efficient, and +/- 7,000 other staff volunteered for salary reductions. But the cabin crew, who are the BEST paid in the industry (heathrow staff) ............

Super Baloo
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by Super Baloo » 14 Dec 2009, 18:12

@ Regi

I indeed did not read your last line. I apologize for that, my mistake.

NCB

Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by NCB » 14 Dec 2009, 18:45

After thoroughly reading the reasons of the strike, I must admit that I'm with the BA staff on this one.
I'm especially shocked by this one:
1.15pm As British Airways cabin crew gather at Sandown Race Course today to vote on strike action this Christmas the airline revealed today its pension deficit has grown by 76 per cent during the past three years to £3.7 billion. The assets in BA’s pension schemes are insufficient to meet the pensions that will need to be paid out to members during the coming 80 years. Based on current calculations the shortfall is £3.7 billion.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel ... 956015.ece

Basically BA is using money that it doesn't own, to pay for their operations.
This is something very different than asking staff to contribute to keep the airline going, as they did past June with volunteer/unpaid work requests. In fact, this is a huge amount of money that BA is stealing from its personnel, without permission.

My gut feeling is that the strike will go ahead anyway. Passengers and travel agencies are rebooking at this very moment, it will soon be cheaper for BA to not operate the flights rather than to operate them almost empty.
Working hours will be extended, crew levels will be slashed, career opportunities will disappear and new starters will be brought in on bargain basement wages. Unite says this will inevitably damage customer service and hit the brand, possibly leaving it beyond repair.
http://www.unitetheunion.com/campaigns/ ... stand.aspx

LX-LGX
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Location: ANR

Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by LX-LGX » 14 Dec 2009, 23:00

After thoroughly reading the reasons of the strike, I must admit that I'm with the BA staff on this one. I'm especially shocked by this one:

1.15pm As British Airways cabin crew gather at Sandown Race Course today to vote on strike action this Christmas the airline revealed today its pension deficit has grown by 76 per cent during the past three years to £3.7 billion. The assets in BA’s pension schemes are insufficient to meet the pensions that will need to be paid out to members during the coming 80 years. Based on current calculations the shortfall is £3.7 billion.
I'm shocked that passengers are used once again as hostage in a dispute which they are not involved with.

unitetheunion.com/campaigns/ba_united_we_stand
United they stand, united they fall.

The travel trade is sick of strike threats in a period where we have to fight for every passenger. And actually, it doesn't matter what's reason this time, or who is on strike. It's a BA-strike. So contrary to a post here, travel agents are not rebooking: the travel trade and EUclaim.be/nl are preparing the legal battle. Few months ago, the Ombudsman at the European Union ruled in favour of a German AF-passenger who asked for the indemnity because his flight was cancelled, due to a strike. The Ombudsman ruled that EU-Regulation 261/2004 excludes strikes as Extraordinary Circumstances, and ordered Air France to refund AND compensate the German passenger.

A strike in aviation now means: the airline has to rerout the passengers and has to pay indemnity:
a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1500 kilometres or less;
b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1500 and 3500 kilometres;
c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).

That's what the union put at risk now: rebooking costs of millions, followed by thousands of claims by angry pax. A cost that an airline in trouble (like BA) cannot survive. And if they can, the pension fund will be totally gone.

cnc
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by cnc » 15 Dec 2009, 02:11

they just prove that the company doesn't mean anything to them. like a lot of people they think "so what? if the company go's down there will be a new one that needs employees" they just don't care about risking a lot more jobs then just those of the cabin crew

Ducatibiker
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by Ducatibiker » 15 Dec 2009, 05:39

I am sure glad that Brussels Airlines did not join Global One and British Airways...don't jump on people striking but on the managers sitting comfortably in offices, behind the safety of their Excell sheet and making some nonsence decisions. Sorry to say, but those are everywhere now. Flying is a profession not a hobby !

LX-LGX
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by LX-LGX » 15 Dec 2009, 08:53

Ducatibiker wrote:...don't jump on people striking but on the managers sitting comfortably in offices, behind the safety of their Excell sheet and making some nonsence decisions. Sorry to say, but those are everywhere now. Flying is a profession not a hobby !
I'm not part of them, but most of your Excell-playing-guys indeed need comfortable chairs as they spend an average of 10 to 12 hours per day in it.

I haven't met any manager from any airline yet (be it sales, station manager, OPS) who talks with such disrespect like you do about his colluegues flying the aircraft. Not a single manager says - not even thinks - something like "pilots have an easy job: the computer flies the plane".

Flying is indeed a profession. But it needs respect from all involved. At least one category of people at BA is about to proof that their respect towards passengers is zero.

regi
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 15 Dec 2009, 10:55

some airlines were famous for repetitive strikes:
Olympic
Sabena
Alitalia

Look what happened to them.

The strikes are not the reason for their downfall. It is just a sign of the general atmosphere. ( overpaid and overcrowded managment, too many benefits which are seen as an obtained right, outside influence from politicians, ...) When the airline industry hits a crisis, it is very tough to turn back the clock. So employees turn to strikes as a way of expression and defence. Their unions even tell them that a strike is necessary BEFORE negotations, to show the managment how strong they are. :roll:

Let us make a comparison to the car industry, in the UK. Rover has gone. But Honda, Nissan and Toyota still make cars over there. And a lot of them. But only after there were made agreements with the unions. ( to back off )

LX-LGX
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by LX-LGX » 15 Dec 2009, 16:34

BA has announced today they will go to court to ask for a strike injunction.

The Times:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/travel ... 957484.ece

BA-shares dropped 3 % today, while EasyJet went up 2%
Last edited by LX-LGX on 15 Dec 2009, 17:45, edited 1 time in total.

regi
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by regi » 15 Dec 2009, 16:45

It was expected. This will cost BA so much that they might go bankrupt. Bye bye exit bonus - also for the union guys.
to the cukprits: Line up for a job at Tesco's: bag filling, trolley gathering or maybe, if you are lucky, toilet cleaning.
And dream about that holiday when you see Easy Jet and Ryanair planes fly over your head.

cnc
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Re: British Airways (BA) will go on strike for 12 days

Post by cnc » 15 Dec 2009, 17:04

The law should force strikers to work unpaid untill the company recovered the lost money. That way the knife cuts at both sides. strikers lose their own money and the company its reputation and clients

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