SN adding medium haul aircrafts

Ziplepingouin · Post by **Ziplepingouin** » 28 Sep 2007, 23:01

www.lecho.be

...la direction de la compagnie envisage l'achat de trois appareils de type Airbus A320 ou Boeing 737. Le personnel vient d'en être informé mais le conseil d'administration doit encore se prononcer. L'achat se justifie aussi par le fait que certains avions de la compagnie belge prendront prochainement la direction de l'Afrique où Brussels Airlines constitue actuellement une nouvelle compagnie aérienne, écrit Le Soir.

Air Key West wrote:Someone in particular is of course going to say that "as usual I have not understood anything...". I honestly don't want to be a spoilsport (spelbederver/trouble-fête) but b.air announced today that : our pilots fly with aircraft with a limited capacity. This is not only less pleasant, but limits opportunities to move to a career elsewhere.
Since when is an airline buying new aircraft so that its pilots, later on, can move to a career with another airline ?

This seemed indeed to be a very odd statement from B.Air!

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 28 Sep 2007, 23:54

But this still leaves me with b.air's statement saying they are going to acquire these aircraft to please their pilots and give them opportunities to move to a career elsewhere. Strange, isn't it ?

Yes and yet it is very logic.
With a type-rating on B737/A320 that B.air provides for free and hours on type, pilots afterwards have greater chances of being hired elsewhere, maybe even anywhere.
This is true for a F/O position as well as captain positions.

I don't think there are many pilots at B.air dreaming to fly for them the whole life.
But the strategy of B.air might be to keep them a bit longer, even if for only 3-4 more years.
FO's will dream of getting their upgrade to captain on one of those types.

Maybe B.air can make it even more interesting by proposing a special scheme that allow pilots to start on Avro and to proceed to the A320/B737 fleet after a few years and to A330 afterwards. That will keep the pilots interested, and that way B.air will keep the best pilots in its fleet.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 29 Sep 2007, 11:18

TUB001 wrote:
Avro wrote: All I hope is they won't get planes à la OO-TUC if you see what I mean
This will never stop... so ridiculous.

Oh come on TUB001 !! You cannot deny it! It's a fact that when OO-TUC was acquired by TUI it had a very low dispatch reliablity. It had a lot of technical problems in the first few months of service that's a fact. Today the problems are solved and that's very good but don't tell me this plane never had more issues than others in the beginning...

All I'm hoping is that SN won't be getting planes which will give them a lot of technical problems in the beginning. That's all !! There's nothing ridiculous in this statement.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 29 Sep 2007, 11:32

Avro wrote:
TUB001 wrote:
Avro wrote: All I hope is they won't get planes à la OO-TUC if you see what I mean
This will never stop... so ridiculous.
Oh come on TUB001 !! You cannot deny it! It's a fact that when OO-TUC was acquired by TUI it had a very low dispatch reliablity. It had a lot of technical problems in the first few months of service that's a fact. Today the problems are solved and that's very good but don't tell me this plane never had more issues than others in the beginning...

All I'm hoping is that SN won't be getting planes which will give them a lot of technical problems in the beginning. That's all !! There's nothing ridiculous in this statement.

I have to agree with TUB001: it indeed never stops:

26/09, JAF303 (to Punta Cana / Montego Bay): ETD 09h20, departed at 18h34
27/09, JAF304 (from Punta Cana / Montego Bay): ETA 09h55, arrived at 17h38
29/09, JAF502 (from Punta Cana / Varadero): ETA 06h50, arrived at 12h42
edited:
29/09, JAF601 (to Cancun/Montego Bay): departed at 16h32 (ETD was 12h15)

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 29 Sep 2007, 20:19

Hi Fly4hours : your explanation is very much to the point. Instead of saying : and give our pilots opportunities to move to a career elsewhere, would it not have been preferable for b.air to say : and give our pilots new promotion opportunities with our airline ?
To me it just shows again that b.air cannot communicate.
If you need your pilots, you don't set up a strategy so they can go to the competition (as implied in b.air statement), but you do all you can to retain them (which is Fly4hours' logical and relevant interpretation).

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 29 Sep 2007, 21:12

I wish they (B. Air management) were doing something also to retain their customers...an old 737 which has been discarded by other airlines is not something to celebrate while you read every day very good and exciting news from other airlines.

TUB001 · Post by **TUB001** » 29 Sep 2007, 21:23

Ducatibiker wrote:I wish they (B. Air management) were doing something also to retain their customers...an old 737 which has been discarded by other airlines is not something to celebrate while you read every day very good and exciting news from other airlines.

Like a very good B787 for Jetairfly...?

Sad for Bru Air indeed, but they just don't have money! We cannot expect enormeous things in the near future for them. Near future not to say future, quite simply...

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 29 Sep 2007, 21:29

BA is throwing their B734's to the trash can.
Might be a good bargain for B.air ?

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 29 Sep 2007, 21:32

Air Key West wrote: To me it just shows again that b.air cannot communicate.

So far, every post here (including the above 837th anti-Brussels-Airlines post above) is based on one internal communication and on a news report, quoting another news report quoting a journo who says he has information from the Brussels Airlines' spokesman.

The press reports about this are unreliable. Example: De Morgen and Belga mention that the "Ondernemingsraad" (Enterprise Board) still has to take the final decision. This indeed could be a wet dream from union delegates, but even a first year student in Economics knows better. But then, for some here it's all the same: Board of Administrators ("investors"), Board of Direction ("management"), Enterprise Board ("setup for consultancy between the company and its employers").

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 29 Sep 2007, 21:42

You're right, Ducatibiker. b.air 's management shoud also do something to retain their pax. Just as they've lost a number of pilots, they've lost a number of high revenue snba customers like me (I will occasionally fly them if they've got a very good b.flex deal, otherwise it's real Business class with another airline). Management apparently have realized they have to do something to keep their pilots. They have not realized yet they have to do something to retain / regain high revenue pax. Maybe it will all come when it's too late. In the meantime they are amateurs who are "bricolating". Feel truly sorry for those working for them. Am eagerly awaiting their first half year (April-September) financial results.

Post by **sn26567** » 30 Sep 2007, 12:25

The posts relating to the Ondernemingsraad / Conseil d'entreprise are

fftopic: and have been split from this topic to be transferred to the Luchtzak Pub.

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 30 Sep 2007, 22:15

And where is the Luchtzak Pub ?

Desert Rat · Post by **Desert Rat** » 01 Oct 2007, 08:34

airazurxtror wrote: a) the pilots think that the Avros are less pleasant to fly, and that they offer less scope for their future (few other airlines still fly with them).
).

I don't think the Avros crew should be worried about this, with all the new A/C's on the markets nowadays, the operator have a pocket full of transition course for everybody.

Post by **sn26567** » 01 Oct 2007, 09:10

Air Key West wrote:And where is the Luchtzak Pub ?

Right here

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 01 Oct 2007, 10:31

As far as I know, from reading the input here, Bru Air has not stated that pilot retention is "THE" reason to acquire 3 additional medium aircraft, yet "A" reason...correct me if I'm wrong.

Food for thought: If pilot retention represents a strategic risk with potential crucial consequences in the short term for your company, then why would it be a bad choice to acquire 3 aircraft that add value to your pilot's careers? In any industry, it is a mistake to think that - in general - people build their careers within a company! Nowadays, people think about their career and 'use' companies to achieve their goals...at least, that is what I do

Worldwide, Human Resources managers are confronted with this phenomenon forcing them to rethink the HR-strategy of a company.

Provided that pilot retention is one of many reasons for the acquisition and that it fits within the overall company strategy (which, let's face it, we don't have a clue about because management doesn't ant shouldn't share the strategy with a broad audience), I am in favour! So let's stop bashing every decision that is taken and give people some trust...

Best regards,
bAIR

vc-10 · Post by **vc-10** » 01 Oct 2007, 17:23

I can see B.Air getting some Airbuses, as they already fly the A319, and the Airbuses are common with the latest generation, but the old 737s are not. That being said, BA's 734s could be a good deal. Whack on a new paintjob and winglets, shove some new seat covers in the cabin and re-register and you're done! You've even got the same types in service already! However, what B.Air really need is a big capital injection, to buy some modern jets, EG some more A320 family or 737NGs, and some ERJs or CRJs to replace the Avros. They could even become a customer for the new SuperJet, as I would expect that it is quite cheap to purchase or lease.....

euroflyer · Post by **euroflyer** » 01 Oct 2007, 17:37

vc-10 wrote:... or CRJs to replace the Avros. ...

Oh no, please, everything with two wings, but no CRJ's ...

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 01 Oct 2007, 17:55

Yes, please no CRJ's, after all the problems they've got...

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Oct 2007, 09:06

vc-10 wrote:However, what B.Air really need is a big capital injection, to buy some modern jets, EG some more A320 family or 737NGs, and some ERJs or CRJs to replace the Avros.

Even without a capital injection, with a good business plan, they could lease such planes!

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 02 Oct 2007, 09:31

Yes but the best business plan would recquire B.air to have its own planes. How many millions don't they give away yearly to the leasing companies?
Even credit is cheaper than lease if you think short & long term.
Why don't they request a credit to the banks and see who comes up with the best offer?