Is there somebody who knows where I can take a bet on Brussels Airlines' first big strike? According to an article in today's newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws, the unions have decided to support any strike as from now, after a bizar recrutement incident. Short translation of the story:
- a Brussels Airlines (Bru-Air) pilot has found another job and he quits Bru-Air;
- the new employer contacts Bru-Air;
- somebody at HRM tells that new employer that the pilot is "a social problem" (quote HLN);
- the employer then decides not to engage the pilot.
Title of the article: "Union gives staff green light for strikes".
http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_43 ... n=homeHVDN
My comment: I really don't understand why people want to destroy the company that is paying them every month. When Sabena went on strike, the Belgian government (thus the tax payer) was always there to pay the bill. But who will pay for the damage at Brussels Airlines?
Troubles at Brussels Airlines ? Part II
Moderator: Latest news team
Why does nobody support this beautiful company?
Hi
I work for BruAir at the airport. From day 1 of the new company I was there to support this new company.
For some bizar reason cabin crew and others are against the new concept. It's new,it's special but it can only work if all staff (ex-sn,ex-virgincabin,ex-virgin check-in,ex flightcare and flightcare) want to work for the same goal. A brand new big Belgian company with a plan that can work in an international scenery!
let's do this together!
I work for BruAir at the airport. From day 1 of the new company I was there to support this new company.
For some bizar reason cabin crew and others are against the new concept. It's new,it's special but it can only work if all staff (ex-sn,ex-virgincabin,ex-virgin check-in,ex flightcare and flightcare) want to work for the same goal. A brand new big Belgian company with a plan that can work in an international scenery!
let's do this together!
Re: Why does nobody support this beautiful company?
Yes....and what do you think about this:ihd-fc wrote:... want to work for the same goal.
...
The increase of the executive salaries may be less pronounced than the massive 38% profits of the BEL20 companies in 2006, it is still in sharp contrast to the pay restraint ordinary employees are subjected to.
Increase for Belgian top managers Re: Why does nobody support this beautiful company?
ElcoB wrote:Yes....and what do you think about this:ihd-fc wrote:... want to work for the same goal.
...The increase of the executive salaries may be less pronounced than the massive 38% profits of the BEL20 companies in 2006, it is still in sharp contrast to the pay restraint ordinary employees are subjected to.
What's the link with Brussels Airlines? As far as I'm informed, Brussels Airlines is not a BEL-20 company yet, and the executive salaries at Bru-Air are not that high as you suggest.
What's the link between the salary from Albert Frère and the stupid and unacceptable reason for the forthcoming strike?
And even so: haven't you heard what prof. De Grauwe tells about the "high" salaries? First of all, there's a shortage in executive managers. And secondly, the figures we see nowadays may not be compared with those from a few years ago, as most CEO's nowadays are paid through a system of all inclusive invoices, issued by themselves. Ten years ago, they were on the pay roll, and the company car was booked as expenses.
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airazurxtror
- Posts: 3769
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00
Re: Troubles at Brussels Airlines ? Part II
Regrettably, this sort of comportment happens all the time, in all companies, and at every level ! It's naïve to think otherwise...LX-LGX wrote:
- a Brussels Airlines (Bru-Air) pilot has found another job and he quits Bru-Air;
- the new employer contacts Bru-Air;
- somebody at HRM tells that new employer that the pilot is "a social problem" (quote HLN);
- the employer then decides not to engage the pilot.
Just after the firemen strike, an SN strike would be a bit too much for the public, I think.
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FlightMate
- Posts: 390
- Joined: 15 Mar 2007, 14:39
you guys so proud to work for BruAir.
Think at what could happen if one day, for some reason, you want to leave.
A negative reference, just because you didn't want to work in your days off? (= not flexible)
It's time to stop all this now, before it all goes too far.
Those tactics to scare people from leaving or from having a delegate's job, simply disgusting.
Think at what could happen if one day, for some reason, you want to leave.
A negative reference, just because you didn't want to work in your days off? (= not flexible)
It's time to stop all this now, before it all goes too far.
Those tactics to scare people from leaving or from having a delegate's job, simply disgusting.
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tolipanebas
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: 12 May 2004, 00:00
I really fail to see how people on this site can still be so supportive of a company which is using all kind even illegal methods of intimidation like the ones Brussels Airlines is currently using against their Flight Crews...
Just a recap:
Last month, Brussels Airlines decided to say 'fuck the Belgian labour laws' by unilaterally renouncing all Collective Labour Agreements between them and their FLight Crews at former SN and imposed a set of new labour conditions the day after. The Belgian law explicitly forbids this, but hey.. Brussels Airlines thinks these laws are 'for sissies' and are just hindering them in their 'big plans'...
Then people who are fed up with this (and all that comes before, because don't think for a second this is the first incident at Brussels Airlines) decide it is time to leave, but guess what? They are haunted by Brussels Airlines right up to their new employer and finished off cold blooded by sending out reference letters full of negative comments.
Just admit it: this is NOT done.
THIS IS INTIMIDATION IN ITS PUREST FORM!
Sure, a strike is not the best option, but open your eyes people:
Brussels Airlines has in the past few weeks shown beyond doubt to be a company where NO COLLECTIVE LABOUR AGREEMENT, NO RULE, NO LAW EVEN is a suitable tool to give pilots there the feeling they are protected from INDIVIDUAL or COLLECTIVE attacks on their working conditions, their salary, their professional carrier and even their personal live! Don't you think YOU might consider some kind of action when you'd be working for an employer who does all this?
And before you say: if you're not happy, why don't you just leave then iso going on strike??? Well, in the past, many pilots have decided to do exactly so, much to the dispair of the management who can hardly cope with the cost and efforts of all the trainings which need to be given to new entrants, while qualified pilots leave 'en masse', so now they have apparently decided to set up a new system to stop the outflow: NOT by tackling the problems inside, but by making sure nobody dares to resign!
The poor guy in question here decided to leave as have so many before him and see what happens now with the new and open HR policy new Brussels Airlines announced with much pooha to their crews??!
They went after him at his new employer (netjets) to make sure his professional carrier there and elsewhere is over... finished... guaranteed!
Even the CEO of Brussels Airlines has admitted this is a bridge too far and has sent all pilots a personal lettre telling them he does NOT support this deplorable HR policy of trying to flunge the professional carriers of those who want to leave for better horizons, but the damage has been done...
Just a recap:
Last month, Brussels Airlines decided to say 'fuck the Belgian labour laws' by unilaterally renouncing all Collective Labour Agreements between them and their FLight Crews at former SN and imposed a set of new labour conditions the day after. The Belgian law explicitly forbids this, but hey.. Brussels Airlines thinks these laws are 'for sissies' and are just hindering them in their 'big plans'...
Then people who are fed up with this (and all that comes before, because don't think for a second this is the first incident at Brussels Airlines) decide it is time to leave, but guess what? They are haunted by Brussels Airlines right up to their new employer and finished off cold blooded by sending out reference letters full of negative comments.
Just admit it: this is NOT done.
THIS IS INTIMIDATION IN ITS PUREST FORM!
Sure, a strike is not the best option, but open your eyes people:
Brussels Airlines has in the past few weeks shown beyond doubt to be a company where NO COLLECTIVE LABOUR AGREEMENT, NO RULE, NO LAW EVEN is a suitable tool to give pilots there the feeling they are protected from INDIVIDUAL or COLLECTIVE attacks on their working conditions, their salary, their professional carrier and even their personal live! Don't you think YOU might consider some kind of action when you'd be working for an employer who does all this?
And before you say: if you're not happy, why don't you just leave then iso going on strike??? Well, in the past, many pilots have decided to do exactly so, much to the dispair of the management who can hardly cope with the cost and efforts of all the trainings which need to be given to new entrants, while qualified pilots leave 'en masse', so now they have apparently decided to set up a new system to stop the outflow: NOT by tackling the problems inside, but by making sure nobody dares to resign!
The poor guy in question here decided to leave as have so many before him and see what happens now with the new and open HR policy new Brussels Airlines announced with much pooha to their crews??!
They went after him at his new employer (netjets) to make sure his professional carrier there and elsewhere is over... finished... guaranteed!
Even the CEO of Brussels Airlines has admitted this is a bridge too far and has sent all pilots a personal lettre telling them he does NOT support this deplorable HR policy of trying to flunge the professional carriers of those who want to leave for better horizons, but the damage has been done...
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tolipanebas
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: 12 May 2004, 00:00
Re: Why does nobody support this beautiful company?
The "bizar" reason is that contrary to you, who hasn't seen much change to his labour and salary conditions (but for the positive maybe), flight crews will actually be loosing quite of lot of money and free time in this new "existing" company of yours.ihd-fc wrote:
I work for BruAir at the airport. From day 1 of the new company I was there to support this new company.
For some bizar reason cabin crew and others are against the new concept. It's new,it's special but it can only work if all staff (ex-sn,ex-virgincabin,ex-virgin check-in,ex flightcare and flightcare) want to work for the same goal!
let's do this together!
I think if some nice manager passes by in the terminal and tells you that as of today, WE all will be launching a new exiting generation airlines with 2 letters less in its name, with a flashy new logo, a thrilling new onboard product ('show me the money or get lost') and all other fancy managerial words... blablabla.. Oh and by the way, you are expected to work MORE for LESS... I think you'd be somewhat less enthousiast about the new airline then you are now too, don't you think?
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airazurxtror
- Posts: 3769
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00
I don't work at SN, but as a passenger I feel concerned (as I have a few SN flights already booked and paid for !).
(I don't know the exact translation in english (nor in Dutch)of every technical term, I 'll try to translate as well as I can and write it in french as well to be sure.)
I have been a shop steward myself (délégué syndical), not in the aviation field, but the general rules are the same.
A strike is the last thing you do, and only if everything else has failed to bring a solution to the conflict.
There are, first, discussions between the shop stewards (délégation syndicale) and the direction.
There is then the discussions at the official employees-employers commission (commission paritaire).
There may be a sort of arbiter called in from the Ministry of Labor (conciliateur social).
And, if nothing succeeds, there is a notice of strike to be given in advance (déposer un préavis de grève).
Besides, a strike is not the way to improve the atmosphere in the company. Even if it is successful, which is not always the case...
Another strike at Brussels Airways would be rather disastrous.
(I don't know the exact translation in english (nor in Dutch)of every technical term, I 'll try to translate as well as I can and write it in french as well to be sure.)
I have been a shop steward myself (délégué syndical), not in the aviation field, but the general rules are the same.
A strike is the last thing you do, and only if everything else has failed to bring a solution to the conflict.
There are, first, discussions between the shop stewards (délégation syndicale) and the direction.
There is then the discussions at the official employees-employers commission (commission paritaire).
There may be a sort of arbiter called in from the Ministry of Labor (conciliateur social).
And, if nothing succeeds, there is a notice of strike to be given in advance (déposer un préavis de grève).
Besides, a strike is not the way to improve the atmosphere in the company. Even if it is successful, which is not always the case...
Another strike at Brussels Airways would be rather disastrous.
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tolipanebas
- Posts: 2442
- Joined: 12 May 2004, 00:00
Interesting to see people always say how a strike is only acceptable as a last resort, so each time they seem to imply there are still many alternatives left...
It might be interesting to accept the idea that the unions at Brussels Airlines feel that they have tried all other possible means and that thus the last resort has been reached.
It is not because not every conflict makes it to the press that there aren't any and keep in mind that as an outsider, you only see the tip of the ice berg... And the tip you can read today, isn't a nice one, is it?
It might be interesting to accept the idea that the unions at Brussels Airlines feel that they have tried all other possible means and that thus the last resort has been reached.
It is not because not every conflict makes it to the press that there aren't any and keep in mind that as an outsider, you only see the tip of the ice berg... And the tip you can read today, isn't a nice one, is it?
I'm flabbergasted. In a normal company, when somebody decides to leave for whatever reason, the company writes a nice letter to recommend him to his future employer...tolipanebas wrote:The poor guy in question here decided to leave as have so many before him and see what happens now with the new and open HR policy new Brussels Airlines announced with much pooha to their crews??!
They went after him at his new employer (netjets) to make sure his professional carrier there and elsewhere is over... finished... guaranteed!
Even the CEO of Brussels Airlines has admitted this is a bridge too far and has sent all pilots a personal lettre telling them he does NOT support this deplorable HR policy of trying to flunge the professional carriers of those who want to leave for better horizons, but the damage has been done...
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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Darjeeling
- Posts: 307
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I know from a very good friend and a family member working at SN that the work athmosphere is quite "heavy" amongst crews. Only a spark is needed to trigger a strike, especially with Avro pilots. SN seems to play a tricky game with the "social peace boundaries" and they could have a backdraft sooner or latter... My 5 Eurocents. 
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Your Dj.
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Your Dj.
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brusselsairlinesfan
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Not good, in the UK you are unable to comment as BRU Airlines HR said,
it might well be true but your not able to state it. The normal procedure is a quick call to the opposite Chief Pilot (who will say he;s great so he leaves)
Unrest seems to be common in BRU at moment as EAT not exactly happy bunch either
it might well be true but your not able to state it. The normal procedure is a quick call to the opposite Chief Pilot (who will say he;s great so he leaves)
Unrest seems to be common in BRU at moment as EAT not exactly happy bunch either
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airazurxtror
- Posts: 3769
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 00:00
A very few more buffooneries at SN and there won't be any iceberg left.tolipanebas wrote:
It is not because not every conflict makes it to the press that there aren't any and keep in mind that as an outsider, you only see the tip of the ice berg... And the tip you can read today, isn't a nice one, is it?
You can say anything you want, one doesn't strike in a company who is fighting just for survival - unless you have suicidal tendances...
I had thought to make bookings on SN to-night, but after reading you, I'll wait and see.
Once again, goodday from the third party: the passenger.
Some posts here make it clear that Brussels Airlines will probably not survive, as it's being destroyed by it's own workers, who cannot accept that the Sabena era is over. Some here seems to have forgotten how SN Brussels Airlines was born. Therefore a reminder: few months after 11th Sept 2001 and 7th Nov 2001 (bankruptcy Sabena), some Belgian companies and banks have invested money in the world's worst business at that moment: the airline business. They did so because two of the top Belgian business men asked them to do so, after they have visited the royal palace. Their first aim was to keep as much employment as possible after the Sabena drama: direct (SNBA) and indirect (airport staff, hotels, meal suppliers, taxis, cargo, tourism branch, ...)
I feel sorry - and I'm even angry - because there is no respect anymore from those who earn a living throught those risky investments. Is there one union that has invested one euro in SNBA? No, at the contrary: they preferred to keep their money safe away on Luxemburg saving accounts, as was revealed by a union leader who was fired.
After 5 years of business, the results are not looking good. SNBA still only shows 1,2% return on investment. The Board told management this has to improve to the average European standard (AUA not included), which is not that abnormal.
Does this give management and/or board a wild card for abusing their staff? Off course not. But then: Belgian labour laws are good enough to protect employees.
Look how some Sabeniens react: an expensive investment in a merger and a PR campaign (b.light - b.flex) has been neutralised by a stupid dress code and a victorious verdict in court that only lasted for one week, because the appeal court has destroyed the verdict.
And now, a case that should be seen as an accident de parcours (an unpleasant remark) suddenly becomes an act on which some react by demanding the death penalty. In other companies, an apology in private would be enough. But here, some even refuse the public excuse by the CEO.
It's obvious that a strike is forthcoming: there are too many frustrated people at Brussels Airlines who refuse to be greatful to the investors. Are you sure that a strike will solve the problems? If the answer is a 100% yes, then go for it. But if your only purpose is to punish management or to show the board you are the boss, then shame on you. And most important: shame on you, because your strike will hurt and damage passengers, the most important player in your business. Shame on you because you will spoil the holiday many people had to work very hard for.
Don't forget the investors are cool lovers of your branch, and if it wasn't Davignon and Lippens who have asked them, many of them would not have invested in your company. The bottom line indeed is: shareholders will never fall in love of their shares. If you kick them in the back, don't be surprised of their reaction.
Some posts here make it clear that Brussels Airlines will probably not survive, as it's being destroyed by it's own workers, who cannot accept that the Sabena era is over. Some here seems to have forgotten how SN Brussels Airlines was born. Therefore a reminder: few months after 11th Sept 2001 and 7th Nov 2001 (bankruptcy Sabena), some Belgian companies and banks have invested money in the world's worst business at that moment: the airline business. They did so because two of the top Belgian business men asked them to do so, after they have visited the royal palace. Their first aim was to keep as much employment as possible after the Sabena drama: direct (SNBA) and indirect (airport staff, hotels, meal suppliers, taxis, cargo, tourism branch, ...)
I feel sorry - and I'm even angry - because there is no respect anymore from those who earn a living throught those risky investments. Is there one union that has invested one euro in SNBA? No, at the contrary: they preferred to keep their money safe away on Luxemburg saving accounts, as was revealed by a union leader who was fired.
After 5 years of business, the results are not looking good. SNBA still only shows 1,2% return on investment. The Board told management this has to improve to the average European standard (AUA not included), which is not that abnormal.
Does this give management and/or board a wild card for abusing their staff? Off course not. But then: Belgian labour laws are good enough to protect employees.
Look how some Sabeniens react: an expensive investment in a merger and a PR campaign (b.light - b.flex) has been neutralised by a stupid dress code and a victorious verdict in court that only lasted for one week, because the appeal court has destroyed the verdict.
And now, a case that should be seen as an accident de parcours (an unpleasant remark) suddenly becomes an act on which some react by demanding the death penalty. In other companies, an apology in private would be enough. But here, some even refuse the public excuse by the CEO.
It's obvious that a strike is forthcoming: there are too many frustrated people at Brussels Airlines who refuse to be greatful to the investors. Are you sure that a strike will solve the problems? If the answer is a 100% yes, then go for it. But if your only purpose is to punish management or to show the board you are the boss, then shame on you. And most important: shame on you, because your strike will hurt and damage passengers, the most important player in your business. Shame on you because you will spoil the holiday many people had to work very hard for.
Don't forget the investors are cool lovers of your branch, and if it wasn't Davignon and Lippens who have asked them, many of them would not have invested in your company. The bottom line indeed is: shareholders will never fall in love of their shares. If you kick them in the back, don't be surprised of their reaction.
OH MY GOD!!! how stupid can you people be.
do you really honestly think the guys (and girls) at Brussels Airlines just want to go on strike for the fun of it?
And don't start about investors and the poor passengers.... If the investors were that concerned they would have done something about the management long ago: they are throwing away millions of euros each week due to mismanagement: anyone want to find out how much our latest round of africa problems has cost?
and you passengers: thank you for flying with us but don't for a second think that we don't know that most of you anly fly with us because we're cheaper and more connected to brussels than all the rest. And the argument; I won't fly with you anymore because you're going on strike... We haven't had a real strike in 5 years and still our pax numbers are low. How many strikes have KLM, Air France and Lufthansa had????? nobody refusing to fly with them are they?
May I also remind everybody that our flight crew lost 30% after the bankruptcy. Guess who was paying for the startup again.
Oh yeah and thanks to those selfish pilots the company earns millions each year: DAT withholds our special pension contributions (for a captain that's about 500 euro's each month) which it doesn't have to give to the state but is allowed to keep (and the only company in Belgium to do so, the rest have the decency to give it back to the pilots). So yes the flying staff IS paying a big amount to keep this company flying.
Last (before I stop this post): Sorry if we're not impressed by the CEO saying he's sorry. That pilot's career is ruined for the near future. I'd like to see how much you'd like that happen to you. Oh yeah: most of us aren't Sabeniens, only the management is, so please get your info straight.
do you really honestly think the guys (and girls) at Brussels Airlines just want to go on strike for the fun of it?
And don't start about investors and the poor passengers.... If the investors were that concerned they would have done something about the management long ago: they are throwing away millions of euros each week due to mismanagement: anyone want to find out how much our latest round of africa problems has cost?
and you passengers: thank you for flying with us but don't for a second think that we don't know that most of you anly fly with us because we're cheaper and more connected to brussels than all the rest. And the argument; I won't fly with you anymore because you're going on strike... We haven't had a real strike in 5 years and still our pax numbers are low. How many strikes have KLM, Air France and Lufthansa had????? nobody refusing to fly with them are they?
May I also remind everybody that our flight crew lost 30% after the bankruptcy. Guess who was paying for the startup again.
Oh yeah and thanks to those selfish pilots the company earns millions each year: DAT withholds our special pension contributions (for a captain that's about 500 euro's each month) which it doesn't have to give to the state but is allowed to keep (and the only company in Belgium to do so, the rest have the decency to give it back to the pilots). So yes the flying staff IS paying a big amount to keep this company flying.
Last (before I stop this post): Sorry if we're not impressed by the CEO saying he's sorry. That pilot's career is ruined for the near future. I'd like to see how much you'd like that happen to you. Oh yeah: most of us aren't Sabeniens, only the management is, so please get your info straight.
That is the real issue. An apology would be void if management does not provide new career opportunities for that particular pilot.datpilot wrote:Sorry if we're not impressed by the CEO saying he's sorry. That pilot's career is ruined for the near future.
But is this worth starting a strike? I think there are other ways to get one's voice heard.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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brusselsairlinesfan
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