new long haul fleet for Brussels Airlines?

BrusselsAirlines · Post by **BrusselsAirlines** » 06 Jan 2007, 09:06

heard that they would receive EC-JTB from Air Madrid.

MSN 82 , YOM 1994, A330-300

That is correct; there would be some kind of reservation on that ac but the seat config is a big problem - doesn't fit the company policy at all...

Nevertheless - the deal is not dead yet...

A lot of wannabe airline managers here

Maybe they should start a dedicated forum...

By the way - it's not even a rumour but it's my strong belief that it is not unrealistic that in the near future TC and/or JAF will finally merger into the BA structure - if you see what a rabbitstrike can do to a small airline...
Concerning TC - half of the managment is already at BA - I think both companies had to act after the Sabena banrupt but will start to realise that it is far too costly and complicated to keep operating solo...just my thoughts as managment wannabe...

BRANCOCALIENTE · Post by **BRANCOCALIENTE** » 06 Jan 2007, 11:48

That would be the best thing it can happen in the small belgian aviation if we want to survive and to offer a nice future to a national company,only one belgian company working for both low cost/regular flights and holiday charter flights;it's not irealistic when we think about it.

B.A,Tui,and Thomas Cook managers have to work strongly in this way.

Airbus330lover · Post by **Airbus330lover** » 06 Jan 2007, 12:03

BRANCOCALIENTE wrote:That would be the best thing it can happen in the small belgian aviation if we want to survive and to offer a nice future to a national company,only one belgian company working for both low cost/regular flights and holiday charter flights;it's not irealistic when we think about it.

B.A,Tui,and Thomas Cook managers have to work strongly in this way.

..... back to the seventies.... DAT, SN,SLR together......

Ziplepingouin · Post by **Ziplepingouin** » 06 Jan 2007, 15:50

From what I read in an article when the new Id of Brussels Airlines was released, Etienne Davignon told that they'll wait and see the fruits of their new strategy and then consider buying new planes. But it was also written that there will be one more A330 for flights to US.
So here is my opinion: the'll take one A330 in the coming months (as said in some previous posts), and for a big new order, we'll have to wait a couple of years.

Cheers.

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 06 Jan 2007, 16:05

IF this... than that... and MAYBE IF this than something else.
I think this is one of the forums with the most "IFs" in it.

Is their nobody with FACTS ?
There's no point to discuss all the free A330 aircraft's over the world and how wonderful it would be IF BruAIR would have one of these.

MAYBE there are no FACTS. We all know that BruAIR is looking for an aircraft(s) the last 12 months. Without any success.

Two remarks ("facts")...
1) BruAIR wants an aircraft "for free"... so with this strategy they will never find an aircraft and
2) BruAIR has no money to make a wrong decision...
Till today they are strongly undercapitalized and the (former) management has no ambition or clear strategy for the airline.

I'm convinced like I stated in earlier discussions there are no answers because there are no facts to communicate.
---

Future Belgian Airline ?

I red today there are "rumours" that the Belgian airlines would consider a serious cooperation or even merger. This "merger" isn't a bad thing but will only work with a good management and good fundamental capitalisation. MAYBE this merged company would attract some foreign investors...

The problem is that the aviation landscape is changing so fast that time is very crucial. And an eventually Belgian merger will not happen in the near future. We see many US airlines coming back to BRU... every new route that opens is a missed opportunity for BruAIR.
---

Africa

Every big airline or alliance is discovering the African opportunities. The most airlines now concentrate on South America, but after this it WILL be Africa. BruAIR will have six months... (max. a year) to win or loose the African battle.
Think fast and react quickly are the keywords to win this battle.
---

About their European network...

Low Cost becomes very important in Europe (like it is in the US). I'm convinced BruAIR made the correct decision to offer "light" flights. I've studied the "light" flights and they are VERY attractive... these fares can easily compete with for example the Easyjet fares offered in the rest of Europe. I'm convinced that BruAIR will attract more passengers with these fares.... the BIG question is how will these lower fares cover their daily costs and structure.
The "flex" flights are expensive (if you compare them with the "light" flights or the past Business Class).
I heard BruAIR calcute to sell 30% "flex" tickets on their European network.
Selling cheap tickets isn't a difficult thing to do... selling tickets who cover the daily operational cost is more difficult.
---

Like always I wish BruAIR the best and the future will bring us all the answers.

greetings,
ATC

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 06 Jan 2007, 18:59

ATC wrote:Is their nobody with FACTS ?

Do you expect anybody who knows the facts to communicate this kind of confidential information?

Those who know more about a possible expansion of the longhaul aircraft (and all other topics), also know that they have to keep confidential information within the company.

That's why Brussels Airlines has an External Communication department.

External Communication will issue a press release once a decision has been taken. No press release means that there is nothing to communicate yet, which DOES NOT mean that a big number of people aren't working behind the scenes to make from Brussels Airlines a profitable airline with a long future ahead.

I don't know why, but there is a very negative atmosphere on this forum about Brussels Airlines. In my opinion, this negativism has been created by people who really don't have the necessary information they need to claim certain things, and by people who have irrational expectations from a Belgian airline. It looks like the huge number of postings with misinformation have started to lead an own life, as a lot of people are not critical enough to put the information in the right context.

Out of all postings about Brussels Airlines in the past few months (and there are a lot of them on here), I have only seen a few people wishing the company good luck. Some people, clearly without any decent information, even hoped for the bankruptcy of Brussels Airlines to replace it with a "new" and "real" airline.

This is my first and last posting about the subject, but once again: those who are really involved in all matters that seem to keep a lot of people awake will not post on this website, or at any other website on the internet. This says enough about the credibility of all "truths" you read over here about Brussels Airlines and its future!

Good luck, Brussels Airlines!

C_J · Post by **C_J** » 06 Jan 2007, 23:07

Sabena_690, I share your opinion. For already a long time, I don't post anymore in these rumour topics, and certainly not if those topics are filled with sceptics about Brussels Airlines. Wait and see, have some faith in the management.
Thanks to member Sabena_690 for his post!

SierraFoxtrotMike · Post by **SierraFoxtrotMike** » 06 Jan 2007, 23:16

Finaly here a some guys with a little bit "jugeotte" as we say in French. (Understand "jugeotte" as "good sense" for those who don't speak french)
Thanks Sabena_690 and C_J.

I niether post in those rumours topics full of sh*t with guys who don't know what they are talking about. It makes me crazy...

As somebody said in this topic here : "There are a lot of wannabe an Airline Manager here". GUYS ! There are a lot of good games on Airlines Management. Reality is not Flight Simulator or such kind a game. There is no PAUSE or SAVE...

Anyway i wish everybody a Happy New Year.

b-west · Post by **b-west** » 07 Jan 2007, 01:08

I fully endorse the previous posts! SN is working hard as far as I can see to make a profitable and succesfull airline. And they deserve our support. And the company will spread the information about fleet enlargement when they deem necessary, not when a bunch of aviation fanatics wants it.

Post by **sn26567** » 08 Jan 2007, 10:11

I fully endorse the comments of Sabena_690, C_J, SFM et al. But...

The negative image of SN given in some posts may be due to the lack of information. Perhaps the External Communications department of SN should try to improve that image, without releasing confidential information or disclosing strategic plans, but by giving a few hints of what SN wants to do in the future. The New Year's press release is really too little and contributes to raising questions from observers and aviation enthusiasts, with the inevitable consequence on the image.

Come on, SN, a little effort can provide great benefits for your image.

Koenie666 · Post by **Koenie666** » 08 Jan 2007, 12:24

The general public doesn't care about this.. only we enthousiasts do...
The external communication unit is in place for the general public.. not for a little niche like we are... hence they don't need to communicate about this.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 08 Jan 2007, 14:07

Sabena_690 wrote: I don't know why, but there is a very negative atmosphere on this forum about Brussels Airlines. In my opinion, this negativism has been created by people who really don't have the necessary information they need to claim certain things, and by people who have irrational expectations from a Belgian airline. It looks like the huge number of postings with misinformation have started to lead an own life, as a lot of people are not critical enough to put the information in the right context.
...
Good luck, Brussels Airlines!

A very dignified word indeed Sabena_690 !
But you cannot just criticise those who make critics because critics are unpleasant to your ear!
You must accept critics and see if they are grounded and be ready to discuss if you feel it worth !
However if you feel it is not worth, then sorry but don't grumble!

Now if a great number of airlines enthousiasts supposedly from every corner of expertise are expressing concern and doubts on the way the flag carrier is run , it is your freedom of course to interpret this as stupid nasty feelings from negative minds , or sheer naivety.

Since the beginning of snba ops some 5 yrs ago, I would have expected an intense and insatiable sense of URGE being the driving force!
There were so many urgent challenges to try give some colours to the new babe !
Plain commun sense would have dictated
1. find the capital for growth
2. develop the lucrative long haul ntwk (consolidate Africa and restart N-Atlantic ops)
3. find ways to make money on any market segment

Instead snba seems resignate to evolve at snail speed wheras supersonic speed is required.
It is now 5 yrs that we see time slipping past and NOTHING AT ALL being changed or having evolved...
Ah yes the name and the logo have recently been modified.
Bold move! Congratulations

It is now become really late in my humble view to begin looking for a meager aircraft in order to try to (re)gain some meager market shares that are/have been meanwile reallocated to more agressive hands.

And I can't help finding it all VERY PITYFUL really! because had the suitable investments and necessary expansion been carried out in due time, I am convinced the flag carrier could definitely enjoy today a far healthier competitive position.

And there would be an unanimous enthusiasm to wish them
ALL THE SUCCESS THEY MERIT !!

Post by **Bruspotter** » 08 Jan 2007, 21:45

Hi

Air Madrid ?

I hope not!
Those planes had a lot of technical problems.

Well problems are there to be solved. You can't really blame this to the plane. The A330 stays a A330. It is so that some aircraft from certain operators had a hard history on lots of short and/or long haul flights , wich acatually tear the plane down faster. Anyway , a good overhaul and replace some worn parts can do wonders. Some good maintenance should solve this problem.

Further I also agree that the A330-200 would be a very nice addition to the fleet. It could be used for longer haul flights (since the range of the -200 is higher than that from the -300) , further it has less seats so it can be used for flights over longer distance with little less density. Only minpoint is that I think it's more expensive (-200 is newer.).

Best regards: Yannick

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 08 Jan 2007, 21:52

sabena north american network was not making any money ...volume yes,but real money...I don t think so ...lot of connecting pax ....with beyond destinations

only some african routes(not even all)were making some profit....asia was also a disaster ..more a prestigeous strategy that a profits oriented one....

TWA · Post by **TWA** » 08 Jan 2007, 23:22

A330's can take besides passengers a lot of CARGO to the States as well.

thofman2 · Post by **thofman2** » 09 Jan 2007, 11:48

ERICAIRLINES wrote: asia was also a disaster ...

For my memories, SABENA took many promits from the Tokyo connection before the merging with Swissair no ?

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 09 Jan 2007, 13:32

ERICAIRLINES wrote:sabena north american network was not making any money ...volume yes,but real money...I don t think so ...lot of connecting pax ....with beyond destinations
...

Yes but volume also can help as it can feed the rest of the network.

Also it is not because sabena was not successful on a route that the route must be barred forever.
On the NAtlantic, a US partner would help.
However you can see that many carriers are expecting profit on the NAtlantic to compensate for the less good results on the shorter haul routes.

Now see what Swiss' network has become 5 yrs after the demise of Swissair.
It strikes me as very similar to SR's network back in 2001.
At that time the flight's revenues were in the red.
Today it is the opposite !

I will always regret the choice that was taken in 2001, Brussels Airlines being designed as a regional operator mainly. Since roughly the same people are unfortunately still controlling the company's fate, I see no breakthrough in the next decade.

JonaLX · Post by **JonaLX** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:07

It's official, they signed a Letter of Intent to lease an additional Airbus A330

But leasing contract not signed yet...

AirDupont · Post by **AirDupont** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:29

Congrats to BA, now let's wait and see what the first new destinations will be like...

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:39

Destinations???

Destination you mean!

The plan is to operate a daily Montreal with it, with the flight leaving around 11:30 local, after all Africa-bound flights have gone, so that if a problem on one of these develops, the Montreal flight can simply be cancelled (and its pax easily rerouted) with the plane originally destined to operate the transatlantic flight takes over the Africa flight of its crippled sister ship...