Avro wrote:Don't forget that brussels airlines would have the "lowest fare guaranteed" concept could be funny on some potential EZY destinations
This lowest far guarantee is absolute nonsense. Here it is:
"If you find a better online offer (service fees, airport taxes and extras included) from another airline for a flight leaving within 30 minutes of your Brussels Airlines plane from the same airport to the same destination, we'll refund the difference."
Are there ANY flights to ANY two same airports leaving within less than 30 minutes from Brussels Airport? At the very most, perhaps just one or two, but really...
Wouldn't you guys love to see Brussels Airlines fail...All those Belgian citizens loosing there job. How nice for EZY to come to Brussels. It's a pitty how some of you think. In stead of encouraging the belgian airlines you guys just love to break them down. You should all start an airline cause you're all the best. Sorry for this message but some people's mentallity really pisses me off.
Any airline, Belgian or not, must be allowed to go bankrupt if it can not compete. Brussels airlines will have to learn to coexist with easyjet. 10.000.000 people should not pay more for their flights just to "keep" a Belgian airline, besides if Easy opens a hub in BRU it will employ Belgians..would become a "Belgian" airline. At tthe end of the day every one wants to fly from point A to point B and pay the most competative fares with whoever can provide them.
What about NMBS and the POST? Should that go bankrupt? How can one compete with EZY in Belgium? Can you explain that to me? Tell me about your ideas. Perhaps the CEO of BA can learn from this forum. Are Belgian citizens paying a lot money for BA, I don't know, can someone tell me how much money goes to SNBA each year from the government?
Johan23 wrote:Are Belgian citizens paying a lot money for BA, I don't know, can someone tell me how much money goes to SNBA each year from the government?
0 euro 0 cent! SN BA gets no money whatsoever from the Belgian government (except perhaps that the Belgian government own 30% of Brussels Airport Company, which is itself a shareholder of SN Airholding - but that should be considered as an investment, not a capital injection)
from a passenger's point of view EZY would be more then welcome in BRU. Have you looked at prices with SN from BRU-LGW? I tried to book a ticket in March 2007 and it would cost me 178 Euros, which I find too expensive. It's not just crew or airline personnel that knows about this forum. And also unlike FR, EZY would hire a lot of Belgian staff for a BRU hub. How many Belgian cabin crew do you think FR has in CRL?
You are really touchy I would say so....
Johan your arguments are totally nonsense and above all, you seem to think as in the 70's. Today, it's ridiculous to protect a local company against competition... for what? To keep a national airline? To be proud to have a belgian carrier? Absolutly nonsense. Today, every big airport and every national airline has to face with low cost carriers. You have to consider the point of view of the customer of Brussels Airport, and not as a belgian guy trying to protect its airline as a castle. If EZY or any low cost carrier can bring more value to Brussels Airport network and offer, and above all more travelling opportunities to belgian people, it's a good thing!
And what about brussels airline? It's not the role of belgian authorities or Brussels Airport to protect them by blocking EZY or whoever from coming in Belgium. Competition is good for everyone, and it's simple : if brussels airlines offers a good product, a good service, something that will seduce customers, no need to be afraid of EZY. But if brussels airlines can't bear competition, it's because their business model is bad.
Johan, Have you taken a train outside of Belgium? NMBS is a horror. Something must be done. as for the Post they had to change practices too. privatization is the future. I did not say that tax payers are paying to keep SN afloat, I said that we in belgium pay too much for our flights. I will put it in a simpler form. If You need to paint your apart. you get two offers from two companies. Both guaranteed quality, one is 50% more expensive than the other, because they leave your apart. spotless while you might have to clean after the other. But quality of paint job identical, and takes the same amount of time. Who would you choose for? If you have no time to clean, plus you are on the wealthier side you might opt for the more expensive one.
First of all on topic:
The more competition the better for me (= the customer). Prices go down = I can fly more and further. Offcourse the customer's wishes aren't always the same as those regarding employment or image or whatever.
More competition means also that generally more destinations are opened up. Also a good thing.
I personally liked the economy product of SNBA and wanted to pay a premium for it as long as it was within certain borders. As such I booked with their cheap autumn fares to bilbao to go visit basque friends instead of FR to valladolid and RENFE combination. And I can leave the car at home thanks to the NMBS connection. If however another airline would have a similar product for 10 euro's cheaper from the same base... well I can eat some extra pinxtos with 10 euro's! Pure economics.
I do have to react to the NMBS horror statement though! Yes I have taken trains in other countries and I must say we should be more proud of NMBS. They have excellent rolling stock and quite a good on time reputation. Just ask the dutch about NS. You can find out the difference when you go to AMS and switch trains at Antwerp or Berchem. From a spacious, comfy cabin to a cramped, old style, hard benches cabin.. the joys!!! (and I don't have to tell about lithuanian trains.. or hungarian ones.. or maybe one in ecuador.. do I? lol)
LOL i did not mean to compare to Indian or Egyptian trains.. but I find the connection from Ant to BRU by train hidious.. takes ages, and very slow..often trains cancelled or trains delayed.. a delay of 10 minutes is the norm (my experience).. Comparing to germany, France, Italy (yes Italy!!!) and Switzerland we can not compete..as for low cost, if easy will be flying from BRU to GVA, I will definitely opt for Easy rather than Brussels airlines.. Same airport of departure same arrival airport..Self check in too...until nov 6th had a very liberal hand luggage policy (as heavy as u can lift). And very efficient website..specially when it comes to managing one's bookings and changing bookings..I fly SN every week on the sector BRU-GVA do not complain, but fly them as have no other choice after 25/03/07..will be good to have another choice..
Johan23 wrote:Wouldn't you guys love to see Brussels Airlines fail...All those Belgian citizens loosing there job. How nice for EZY to come to Brussels. It's a pitty how some of you think..
Johan, EZY has the biggest community of ex-sabena (BELGIAN)pilots, they must be over 100 and they earn 3 to 4 times the Bru Air salary. eg they just got a BONUS of €5000 because there were to many roster changes during the summer...
EZY still needs two pilots to fly an airplane, but they only have half the SNBA management for 150 planes, there is the difference. If they come to BRU, there will bring more work than there will be lost at BruAir.
Johan23 wrote:Are Belgian citizens paying a lot money for BA, I don't know, can someone tell me how much money goes to SNBA each year from the government?
0 euro 0 cent! SN BA gets no money whatsoever from the Belgian government (except perhaps that the Belgian government own 30% of Brussels Airport Company, which is itself a shareholder of SN Airholding - but that should be considered as an investment, not a capital injection)
WRONG guys, SNBA received a loan of 100 000 000€ at start up, they are not even paying intrest on it, so that is tax money.
The initial investment the private investers did to start up SNBA had a special fiscal advantage, so disguised tax money...
It is a know tactic that governements buy tickets of their national airlines and not use them. This is a disguised state aid,to avoid the EU rules...
The "no show" rate at SNBA was huge in the first years of operation...
b720 wrote:Johan, Have you taken a train outside of Belgium? NMBS is a horror. Something must be done.
fftopic: I had to react on this statement... I take daily a train on several routes, and i have taken plenty of trains other countries in Europe, i've never been on such clean, fast and precise trains as in Belium!
Back on topic: i hope EZY comes to Brussels and that BruAir can deal with this new situation. I will fly all Belgian based LCC's: FR, SN and EZY.
Guys, let's not panic about what result U2 coming to BRU would have on SN: it seems we're talking about only two routes, or four daily flights. That's not going to kill SN, it will just lower the average prices on those routes, and will thus be good for travellers.
but I find the connection from Ant to BRU by train hidious.. takes ages, and very slow..often trains cancelled or trains delayed.. a delay of 10 minutes is the norm (my experience)..
Sorry, but that only happens on one of the three hourly intercity services between Antwerp and Brussels, and that's the one coming from... Amsterdam! A Dutch train, which is almost always delayed on the Dutch network. Believe me, I've been on it: the train usually leaves on time here in Belgium, and once it has crossed the border... the sh*t hits the fan so to speak. So when complaining about NMBS, don't pick the one intercity service the company doesn't have full control over. Statistics show that Belgian train are among the most punctual in all of Europe.
1) a bonus of 5000 euros : it was a bonus of half a month's salary and it was in shares (which you'll only get after 3 years ) ...
2) if BruAir pilots only earn 25 - 33% of what easyjet pilots, they would all be gone... ok, you earn more at ezy but it's not that much
3) 150 airplanes... think it's around 115-120 at the moment
And for the rest, remember these are all rumours... don't think bru will be the next ezy continental base... the next base will probably be a bit more south but still close to belgium..
Would be great if they started routes to bru this summer !
could be funny on some potential EZY destinations
fftopic: I had to react on this statement... I take daily a train on several routes, and i have taken plenty of trains other countries in Europe, i've never been on such clean, fast and precise trains as in Belium!