Que reste-t-il de Virgin dans Brussels Airlines?

[arma]

Bonjour,

Après les pilotes qui partent vers d'autres cieux rémunérateurs, voici que de nombreux employés étiquetté Virgin quitteraient l'entreprise en masse. La raison? Bcp de pression sur les "Virginiens", leurs méthodes lowcost et surtout la famille des ex-SNBA conservent tous les pouvoirs.

Avez-vous aussi ce sentiment que les employés Virgin sont mis au banc?

[TWA]

All ex-vex flyingstaff is still present. As for the airport and office staff instead I am not sure but a few of them left because they found something better elsewhere.

What you say about people leaving "en masse" is absolutely untrue!!!!

[AirDupont]

It's true what TWA is saying, it's just the ex SNBA pilots that are leaving. It's everyone's personal decision whether to stay or leave the company. Cabin crew however aren't leaving because in my eyes, we as ex SNBA are earning more now then before. The more you fly, the more you earn...which is logic to me. I know that we earn more then cabin crew at KLM. They have more off days, it's just whatever you like better. I talked to Continental Airlines crew, 2 ladies returned at 4AM from Bombay(24hrs stay) in EWR and the same day at night they had to fly to GVA(24hrs stay again). They can choose to do their flights with a minimum rest at home base one after another to be home for nearly 2 weeks afterwards. They get to choosehow they want the rostering dept to make their roster.

[arma]

"absolutely untrue"? 30 people of administrative dpt left since fusion. There is nobody any more of Virgin in the BA management.
Isn't this a signal?

[Stij]

"absolutely untrue"? 30 people of administrative dpt left since fusion. There is nobody any more of Virgin in the BA management.
Isn't this a signal?

management is not the floor, or the sky in this case Anyhow, I don't work there so I shouldn't be saying anything.

However, when I fly Bru Air (B light, what most people fly), I "feel" the Vex spirit: pay extra for everything but your seat. So to me the Vex way of doing business is still there.

Cheers,

Stij

[tolipanebas]

You see a signal, arma? If so it is definitely a good one then! :kvole:

In the beginning VEX basically took over SN's operations and promissed us almost arrogantly they'd show us how to run a modern and slim airline....

Their 'modern' approach had 2 painful consequences:

1- by simply copy-pasting the VEX approach from its limited European network onto SN's extensive business focussed network allover Europe, they reshaped the airline in yet another low fare airline with raisor thin profit margins, often even needlessly as no low cost competitor was in sight on many routes and volume/kind of traffic on those routes didn't warrant a low fare approach either!

2- At the same time they completely disregarded the highly profitable African operations, most possibly due to a lack of any insight in this market segment. Neil Burrows himself told us personally he saw no future for SN as a long haul operator as these kind of operations looked 'too complex' to him!

Luckily however, common sense has finally returned at SN and the understanding has slowly grown that the entire idea to focus on Europe is insane (VEX never turned a real profit doing so in its ENTIRE existence either BTW), that the b.flex/b.light concept invented by VEX people is a TOTAL financial disaster (not even 10% is traveling in flex, whereas it should have been 30%+) and that we have been loosing precious time by not concentrating on the real money cow, Africa like we should have done from the onset!

I'd say: kick out the VEX know-it-all idiots, return to the old SN strategy of AFRICA first and above all, combine it with a good European network (including a real business class section), join an alliance (OneWorld) and move on asap...

Nich legacy carriers with a focus on one specific long haul market like TP and AY are doing great: SN should take example of them asap. It is their only chance really, as Europe isn't waiting for yet another low fare airline which thinks it has discovered a revolutionary new way of flying...

[Ducatibiker]

Bonjour,

Après les pilotes qui partent vers d'autres cieux rémunérateurs, voici que de nombreux employés étiquetté Virgin quitteraient l'entreprise en masse. La raison? Bcp de pression sur les "Virginiens", leurs méthodes lowcost et surtout la famille des ex-SNBA conservent tous les pouvoirs.

Avez-vous aussi ce sentiment que les employés Virgin sont mis au banc?

I wonder what you mean by 'lots of pressure on ex Virgin Airlines employees, their lowcost method and that the ex.SNBA family has all the powers. Can you provide examples of low cost methods ?
Not serving Champagne in B.flex is for me an example of 'low cost method'

[airazurxtror]

Bcp de pression sur les "Virginiens", leurs méthodes lowcost

En tout cas, pour ma part, je regrette beaucoup Virgin Express, qui avait de l'allure, de la classe, du panache - VEx avait toujours gardé quelque chose du "coup de patte" de son fondateur, Richard Branson.
Brussels Airlines, elle, rappelle irrésistiblement son ancêtre Sabena, avec tout ce que cela évoque de lourdeur, de petitesse et de manque d'envergure dans tous les domaines.
Un seul exemple, mais qui saute aux yeux : la couleur des appareils ...
- Virgin : entièrement d'un rouge franc, gai, jeune, entraînant.
- Brussels : un mélange ringard de blanc sale et de bleu grisâtre disposés à la mode d'il y a trente ans...
C'est bien symbolique d'un état d'esprit.

[Stij]

Bcp de pression sur les "Virginiens", leurs méthodes lowcost

En tout cas, pour ma part, je regrette beaucoup Virgin Express, qui avait de l'allure, de la classe, du panache - VEx avait toujours gardé quelque chose du "coup de patte" de son fondateur, Richard Branson.
Brussels Airlines, elle, rappelle irrésistiblement son ancêtre Sabena, avec tout ce que cela évoque de lourdeur, de petitesse et de manque d'envergure dans tous les domaines.
Un seul exemple, mais qui saute aux yeux : la couleur des appareils ...
- Virgin : entièrement d'un rouge franc, gai, jeune, entraînant.
- Brussels : un mélange ringard de blanc sale et de bleu grisâtre disposés à la mode d'il y a trente ans...
C'est bien symbolique d'un état d'esprit.

Everybody his opinion, but personally I hated to fly with Virgin Express and loved to fly with SNBrussels Airlines.

Virgin stood to me for 1 emergency landing, 1 aborted take-off, 1 night flight from AGP to BRU on the last row between two "full-size" guys on the a seat that wouldn't recline an inch (the one in front of reclined the more), hand-luggage within limits that was taken away twice and a couple of serious delays.

Even worse: I found that the service went down over time and prices up. On SNBrussels the service stayed at least the same as prices went up.

Kind regards,

Stij

[GORKI]

Dear all,

I dont see a reason to hate a company because they perform an emergency landing and aborted TO
be happy you had a safety minded crew
I am sure SNBA and any other airline have these non normals once in a while..
If your were in the last row you probably payed not much for it or you booked last minute
I worked for both Sabena and Virgin Express and I can say that I enjoyed the young and dynamic spirit in VEX which I never felt in Sabena
I am sure that in every company you have professionals and less professionals..= reply to the quite hard ,frustrated words of Tolepanibas
on VEX people
Unfortunately I lost faith before the merge and changed company
I think too much damage is done on all levels of Belgian aviation and between those 4 big airports there is no need any more for a national carrier..
the future for BRU Airlines is certainly not being a low cost airline without a low cost structure - get in an alliance or be sold to a big carrier and be a player on the africa network & perhaps in Africa
europe will be taken over by easyjet,ryanair,skyeurope,sterling,vueling,
etc...

[Ducatibiker]

Bcp de pression sur les "Virginiens", leurs méthodes lowcost

En tout cas, pour ma part, je regrette beaucoup Virgin Express, qui avait de l'allure, de la classe, du panache - VEx avait toujours gardé quelque chose du "coup de patte" de son fondateur, Richard Branson.
Brussels Airlines, elle, rappelle irrésistiblement son ancêtre Sabena, avec tout ce que cela évoque de lourdeur, de petitesse et de manque d'envergure dans tous les domaines.
Un seul exemple, mais qui saute aux yeux : la couleur des appareils ...
- Virgin : entièrement d'un rouge franc, gai, jeune, entraînant.
- Brussels : un mélange ringard de blanc sale et de bleu grisâtre disposés à la mode d'il y a trente ans...
C'est bien symbolique d'un état d'esprit.

BRANIFF airlines once flew between Brussels/Dallas and Brussels/Boston in the 70ies. The same bright colors were used. Richard Branson did not invent anything !

As for SABENA, oh yes, I miss them ! As a very frequent passenger, I got to dream when travelling ! Thank you to all of you former Sabena crew for those dreams which I will treasure for ever. You did care for the passenger I was.

Today I have stopped dreaming...especially when I look at my 15gr of chicken in b.flex after paying 10 times what a passenger paid two rows behind me.

[TWA]

Hi arma, once agin I really think you're making a big fuss out of nothing. As you stated, only 30 ex-vex (of a total workforce of 2700 (800 ex- vex)) left the company. And I know quite a few of them got a better offer elsewhere and left voluntarely. Others left with a nice redunancy payment. So please, I don't think this is a signal.
And if it would be one, nobody would care...

[Stij]

Dear all,

I dont see a reason to hate a company because they perform an emergency landing and aborted TO
be happy you had a safety minded crew
I am sure SNBA and any other airline have these non normals once in a while..
If your were in the last row you probably payed not much for it or you booked last minute

Sorry,

but 1 aborted take-off, and 1 emergency landing on 28 flights is (according to me) a lot. I've flown 363 times in my life and these two Virgin issues were the only serious I had, always on Virgin!

If I remember well, the non reclining seat was indeed a (bloody expensive) last minute. But since when is a lst minute a reason to install seats in such a way on an aircraft?

Anyhow, these were my experiences with them. I can imagine the picture is different if you're on the other side.

Cheers,

Stij

[Beleg]

Hi all,

I read the posts one by one... so many frustrated people in Belgium who still think in Sabena-terminology. Sabena is dead, Brussels Airlines is keeping up to find a niche in the European market which doesn't want to pay more than the price of a bus ticket... It has been predicted 10 years ago by someone called Jonathan Ornstein... he told us wisely that the European Air would change drastically... well it did...

All European economy classes changed from a nice meal service to a kind of no frills service... and the business class changed drastically as well... in many European carriers it is the class where you choose for flexibity and not for the beautiful seats with delicious meals... when will people start to understand these changes... anyway, it is funny to read how people are frustrated and still thinking about 'the old days' It reminds me of my grandmother who spoke of the 7-day trips to Congo with Sabena She is dead as is Sabena, Virgin, Pomair, Sobelair, Air Belgium, Constellation, TEA, EBA ...

I'm happy I left to KLM a few years ago together with 600 other Belgians And every week, we meet new people here (and one thing is sure: we are all ex-SN, VEX, EBA, TEA, SLR, CTB, working happily together...

anyway, to all who are still at work in Belgium... good luck and 'courage'...

I admire your courage

Belegje

[Ducatibiker]

Hi all,

I read the posts one by one... so many frustrated people in Belgium who still think in Sabena-terminology. Sabena is dead, Brussels Airlines is keeping up to find a niche in the European market which doesn't want to pay more than the price of a bus ticket... It has been predicted 10 years ago by someone called Jonathan Ornstein... he told us wisely that the European Air would change drastically... well it did...

All European economy classes changed from a nice meal service to a kind of no frills service... and the business class changed drastically as well... in many European carriers it is the class where you choose for flexibity and not for the beautiful seats with delicious meals... when will people start to understand these changes... anyway, it is funny to read how people are frustrated and still thinking about 'the old days' It reminds me of my grandmother who spoke of the 7-day trips to Congo with Sabena She is dead as is Sabena, Virgin, Pomair, Sobelair, Air Belgium, Constellation, TEA, EBA ...

I'm happy I left to KLM a few years ago together with 600 other Belgians And every week, we meet new people here (and one thing is sure: we are all ex-SN, VEX, EBA, TEA, SLR, CTB, working happily together...

anyway, to all who are still at work in Belgium... good luck and 'courage'...

I admire your courage

Belegje

You are wrong, there is still decent service, catering on some C Class of other airlines in Europe. Sad that my money is now going to those airline instead of Brussels Airlines.

[Stij]

Hi all,

I read the posts one by one... so many frustrated people in Belgium who still think in Sabena-terminology. Sabena is dead, Brussels Airlines is keeping up to find a niche in the European market which doesn't want to pay more than the price of a bus ticket... It has been predicted 10 years ago by someone called Jonathan Ornstein... he told us wisely that the European Air would change drastically... well it did...

All European economy classes changed from a nice meal service to a kind of no frills service... and the business class changed drastically as well... in many European carriers it is the class where you choose for flexibity and not for the beautiful seats with delicious meals... when will people start to understand these changes... anyway, it is funny to read how people are frustrated and still thinking about 'the old days' It reminds me of my grandmother who spoke of the 7-day trips to Congo with Sabena She is dead as is Sabena, Virgin, Pomair, Sobelair, Air Belgium, Constellation, TEA, EBA ...

I'm happy I left to KLM a few years ago together with 600 other Belgians And every week, we meet new people here (and one thing is sure: we are all ex-SN, VEX, EBA, TEA, SLR, CTB, working happily together...

anyway, to all who are still at work in Belgium... good luck and 'courage'...

I admire your courage

Belegje

I could agree with that, it's just that Bru Air didn't drop it's fares to no frills level. I personally find it a rip off for the moment...
I'm not complaning about no frills service, (I fly Ryanair all the time), but I want it at a no frills price. That's the issue!

Example: The next trip I'll make

The price difference was even bigger a couple of weeks ago, but today the booking engines give the following:

Bru Air: BRU ATH outbound 14/9 inbound 18/9: 538.10€ in B Light!
Olympic: BRU ATH outbound 14/9 inbound 18/9: 529.46€ in Economy fully flexible!

Guess who I'm flying. Cheapest wins! Especially if they offer things like legroom and a free meal!

B Light is no frills service at full service price!

Cheers,

Stij

[AirDupont]

Arma,

Je me demande si tu es employé(e) chez Brussels Airlines?

[Ducatibiker]

Arma,

Je me demande si tu es employé(e) chez Brussels Airlines?

et je me demande si tu es
(a) ancien Virgin
(b) manager dans la structure actuelle
(c) un peu perdu dans tous ces changements
(d) confronté au manque de continuité et de stratégie claire
(e) ne pas être écouté !
(f) et qu'on te dise, comme à nous les passagers, que nous ne comprenons pas les changements, le b.flex..etc...

Bien sur nous les passagers nous sommes tous B.etes et on ne comprend rien (sic !)

[Air Key West]

LOL

[ERICAIRLINES]

Vex staff are not welcomed anymore at Bru air,because of the total failure of the B light/B flex concept...mainly B flex...(pushed by vex staff).
Ex sabena and ex sn brussels staff are very happy,about this issue...The real power is in their hands.They killed the beast.
Bru air is by no mean a 'low cost' company,maybe some kind of low fares airline...but the concept is not very clear for the customers..a mixed of b light/b flex,with still some C class kept on routes to hel/mow/and tlv..and a classical full services structure to africa...
The B light concept comes clearly from vex people...it is not appropriate to Bru air as the costs of bru air are everything but low...it is still mainly a 'full services' airline,with some low costs touch...
I think that Bru air will have to switch back soon to a more classical 'full services' concept focussing on business,long haul,and some european routes...(the least crowded in terms of competition)
All other european routes will be taken over by real low cost/low fares airlines like ryanair,easyjet,sky,wiz,vueling,sterling etc etc...
Will 'codeshareairline' still have a future in belgian aviation?Yes probably ,when the company will finaly be sold (and totaly) to another world airline ,a major player like 9w,Ba,Sq...EK....or why not VS ?? lol
Bru air will then probably join one of the three main alliances...