Aero Flight linking FRA to BRU?

Skystef · Post by **Skystef** » 24 Nov 2004, 20:42

Hi all,

another inside rumour says Aero Flight might start a link to FRA from mid December on with A320. Anyone heard more of it?

Brgrds S

Flybe · Post by **Flybe** » 24 Nov 2004, 21:10

If the prices are reasonable, i think they would make André very happy 8)

Greets,

Pieter

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 25 Nov 2004, 12:25

That would be great. We would finally have a competition on the FRA market (at least for non connecting pax).

But why isn't SN considering to open the FRA route. I know that LH wouldn't be happy and that they would respond in an aggressive way, but I'm sure that SN has its place in the BRU-FRA market.

Chris

FlightSimCrew · Post by **FlightSimCrew** » 26 Nov 2004, 12:38

sn cannot get slots at fra probably LH is blocking....

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 26 Nov 2004, 15:55

FlightSimCrew wrote:sn cannot get slots at fra probably LH is blocking....

I thought that companies aren't allowed to block like that. That's for sure not allowed !!!! Because it doesn't offer an honest competition on the market...

Chris

L-1011 · Post by **L-1011** » 26 Nov 2004, 18:28

Avro wrote:
FlightSimCrew wrote:sn cannot get slots at fra probably LH is blocking....
I thought that companies aren't allowed to block like that. That's for sure not allowed !!!! Because it doesn't offer an honest competition on the market...

Chris

Yes but don't forget that SNBA is a small & weak player enxt to LH, so that if they start to complain too much on the BRU-FRA situation LH has many ways to retaliate. SNBA probably thibks it's better to let them have BRU-FRa than to start a costly war which they (SN) would loose.

ciao,
TriStar

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 26 Nov 2004, 21:00

Guys,

It's pretty simple really, noone is blocking anyone. It's fairly impossible to get a peak time runway slot in FRA these days, so SNBA cant get one. On the other had Aero Flight hold lots of slots at FRA already that they have from their charters and FRA is their homebase, so all they need was a slot at BRU, which I guess is easier (if you pick the right time),
Rgds
Tony

PS looking at the requests for BRU next summer (they aren't public domain yet until after the IATA slot conference sorry

) we MAY have 2 or 3 newcomers,

Rgds
Tony
PPS please don't ask me who they are

Established02 · Post by **Established02** » 26 Nov 2004, 23:00

PS looking at the requests for BRU next summer (they aren't public domain yet until after the IATA slot conference sorry ) we MAY have 2 or 3 newcomers,

Is this the slot conference that is being held in Boston?
I guess it will finish in a few days.

How is the atmosphere around the BRU table during such a conference?
Is there strong lobby work from the airlines to modify and optimise their BRU schedules?

To what degree does slot info become 'public domain'?
Is there a public website that reports about the distribution of BRU slots?

(Only) 2 or 3 newcomers?
It may not sound very much, considering that newcomers at BRU quite often tend not to survive there.

On the other had Aero Flight hold lots of slots at FRA already

Beside their charter work, is their any route where Aero Flight already competes (successfully) head on with Lufthansa?

Thanks

Post by **Kapitein** » 27 Nov 2004, 15:38

We received the confirmation of the new service between FRA and BRU, operated by Aero Flight, no schedule yet:

"Attn all,

Please note following new airline operating into Brussels :

AERO FLIGHT ( GV / ARF )

Scheduled passenger flights as from 20dec04 to/from FRA .

Full handling Aviapartner."

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 27 Nov 2004, 16:12

Am I right in thinking Aeroflight were formed from Aerolloyd

What other scheduled flights do they do?

OO-VEX · Post by **OO-VEX** » 27 Nov 2004, 16:18

Hello,

their (GV) schedules are already in the Brussels Airport Timetable:

Scheduled flights from Brussels (BRU) to FRANKFURT (FRA)
GV1705 1------ 12:15 13:15 320 2012-2103
GV3705 --3---- 12:40 13:40 320 2212-2303
GV3707 --3---- 20:50 21:50 320 2212-2303
GV5707 ----5-- 21:00 20:00 320 2412-2503
GV1707 1------ 21:00 22:00 320 2012-2103

Scheduled flights from FRANKFURT (FRA) to Brussels (BRU)
GV1704 1------ 06:50 07:50 320 2012-2103
GV3704 --3---- 07:25 08:25 320 2212-2303
GV3706 --3---- 19:00 20:00 320 2212-2303
GV5706 ----5-- 19:10 20:10 320 2412-2503
GV1706 1------ 19:10 20:10 320 2012-2103

This looks likes a strange schedule to me. 2 daily flights on Monday and Wednesday and a daily flight on Friday. Another remark is that their first flights on Monday arrives at 07:50 and only leaves at 12:15. The first flight on Wednesday arrives at 08:25 and leaves only at 12:40. All 3 other flight leave BRU for FRA 50 minutes after their arrival. I can't imagine that they will park their plane at BRU for several hours or will they do other flights (scheduled or charter) in between?

OO-VEX

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 27 Nov 2004, 16:39

Perhaps they will do charters from BRU and these are positioning flights?

Established02 · Post by **Established02** » 27 Nov 2004, 19:26

This looks likes a strange schedule to me. 2 daily flights on Monday and Wednesday and a daily flight on Friday.

With this schedule a day return is possible from the FRA side, less likely from the BRU side. In general, I believe demand tends to be weak(er) on Friday mornings, while being strong on Friday evenings.

Business pax do not have much flexibility with this GV schedule. However if corporate customers are concerned about cutting their travel expenses, then they may consider to let their staff fly on GV at (considerably?) lower cost, rather than having LH's full flexiblity (with 9 daily returns) which comes at its price (up to 659 EUR excl. tax).

What about SN codesharing with GV?
FRA-BRU-AFRICA traffic does seem to connect. However AFRIKA-BRU-FRA does not.

Post by **sn26567** » 29 Nov 2004, 13:19

Flybe wrote:If the prices are reasonable, i think they would make André very happy

Not only the prices, but also the schedules must be reasonable, and with what I've seen, they are all but interesting for business travel.

sab319 · Post by **sab319** » 29 Nov 2004, 17:16

I think it's time there comes a bit of competition on the BRU-FRA route against LH

Post by **sn26567** » 29 Nov 2004, 17:21

sab319 wrote:I think it's time there comes a bit of competition on the BRU-FRA route against LH

Sure! But this is too little and too late.

Skystef · Post by **Skystef** » 30 Nov 2004, 14:56

Just been informed by Avia Partner that Aero Flight has annulated the flights to EBBR

.

Brgrds S

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 30 Nov 2004, 19:58

Skystef wrote:Just been informed by Avia Partner that Aero Flight has annulated the flights to EBBR .

Well, seeing their schedule it doesn't really surprises me. They would have stopped the flights after a few months anyway in my opinion. You just can't compete against LH with such flight times. Especially if you want to focus on "one day trip" traffic (non connecting pax).

But it's indeed some sad news

I guess we will have to live with that monopoly for years......

Chris

themole · Post by **themole** » 04 Dec 2004, 13:55

Skystef wrote:Just been informed by Avia Partner that Aero Flight has annulated the flights to EBBR .

I can confirm that Aero Flight aborted its plans to start Brussels operations.

Advisor · Post by **Advisor** » 04 Dec 2004, 15:00

Watch out Lufthansa, here comes competion.