Air Belgium in 2021

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crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by crew1990 »

Acid-drop wrote: 12 Feb 2021, 17:32 Why OO then ?
Because register in Belgium and not in France

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by sn26567 »

crew1990 wrote: 12 Feb 2021, 17:45
Acid-drop wrote: 12 Feb 2021, 17:32 Why OO then ?
Because register in Belgium and not in France
Because it is registered in the name of the operator, and not the owner. Like all other Air Belgium planes (and all SN planes as well...).
André
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N77014
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by N77014 »

As an outsider, how should I understand the fact Air Belgium is operating those A330’s for CMA and not owning them ? Is it to keep their cockpit crew “busy”, but not getting any (major) benefit except for invoicing crew cost ? Who is commercialy responsible for those aircraft - selling the cargo space - and who decides about routes and usage ? Is all risk, and thus potential benefit/loss for CMA or Air Belgium, or is it shared ? Thanks for any insight !

flightlover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by flightlover »

CMA owns or leases the aircraft and fills them with freight. Air Belgium puts them on their AOC and takes care of the operational side of things.
This way CMA has no need to go thru the cumbersome process of acquiring their own Belgian AOC (they invested in a french airline group already) and the advantage of a predictable cost for the duration of the contract.
Air Belgium on the other hand has a predictable income and a possibility to make a name for themselves in the cargo business. And in these aviation times, a reason to exist.

(last post was incorrect :oops: )

Acid-drop
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by Acid-drop »

Good summary, flightlover.
Now, why would CMA be suddenly interested by LGG then ?
We could suppose they would fly wherever the cargo needs to go, LGG beeing a big cargo hub, but one of many after all.
They would take avantages of traffic rights negociated by air belgium ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

longwings
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by longwings »

N77014 wrote: 12 Feb 2021, 22:18 As an outsider, how should I understand the fact Air Belgium is operating those A330’s for CMA and not owning them ? Is it to keep their cockpit crew “busy”, but not getting any (major) benefit except for invoicing crew cost ? Who is commercialy responsible for those aircraft - selling the cargo space - and who decides about routes and usage ? Is all risk, and thus potential benefit/loss for CMA or Air Belgium, or is it shared ? Thanks for any insight !
It is less unusual than you may think. There are entities in need of a fleet of aircraft to execute their business plan, but unwilling or unable to operate their own airline. If they can afford the upfront cost (deposit or outright purchase), buying their aircraft and outsourcing operations is cheaper in the long-term than paying an airline to provide both plane and crew. Sometimes it is also a matter of speed. Getting into an agreement with an airline experienced in flying long-haul Airbus aircraft is a lot faster than starting one from the ground up. Notable players you have heard of include Amazon (it owns the Amazon Air fleet and contracts the flying to Southern, Atlas, etc.) and DHL (in countries where it cannot operate its own airline, it often owns the planes and finds airlines to operate them – like ABX Air, Air Hong Kong…).
Acid-drop wrote: 13 Feb 2021, 11:11 Now, why would CMA be suddenly interested by LGG then? They would take avantages of traffic rights negociated by air belgium ?
Air Belgium would not negotiate traffic rights directly, but you may be headed in the right direction in that, in times when Covid is less of an issue, Belgium may have more untapped traffic rights to countries like China than France does. Location is certainly a factor too. CMA is French, but it operates around the EU and the world. LGG is a more central location to serve the EU than, say CDG or XCR. Finally they may be influenced by FedEx reducing its footprint, which probably means cargo facilities available for immediate use at a low cost. It is a godsend for CMA since, as I wrote a few post backs, their logistics unit currently has zero presence in LGG (and quite the fortuitous timing).

Kapitein
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by Kapitein »

OOCMA is coming to BRU 15/02.
STA: 0800 from DOH
STD: 1200 to DUB.

Second one will follow later this week

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by sn26567 »

Kapitein wrote: 14 Feb 2021, 16:01 OOCMA is coming to BRU 15/02.
STA: 0800 from DOH
STD: 1200 to DUB.
To DUB for painting?
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Kapitein
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by Kapitein »

sn26567 wrote: 14 Feb 2021, 17:29
Kapitein wrote: 14 Feb 2021, 16:01 OOCMA is coming to BRU 15/02.
STA: 0800 from DOH
STD: 1200 to DUB.
To DUB for painting?
I guess yes

BigJets
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by BigJets »

OO-CMA landed in Brussels (BRU) this morning (February 15) at 8:27 and is parked at remote position 695 (between 07L/25R and hangar 8).

AarjenP
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by AarjenP »

Grey arrival of OO-CMA this morning:
Image

flightlover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by flightlover »

Busy times ahead for Sabena technics.

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by sn26567 »

AarjenP wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 10:05 Grey arrival of OO-CMA this morning:
Image
This will remain one of the rare views of that aircraft in a neutral livery. Nice shot, Aarjen!
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by TLspotting »

sn26567 wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 10:44
AarjenP wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 10:05 Grey arrival of OO-CMA this morning:
Image
This will remain one of the rare views of that aircraft in a neutral livery. Nice shot, Aarjen!
HA-LHU has also this neutral livery atm.
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

BigJets
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by BigJets »

I would not be surprised if OO-CMA and even the 3 remaining A330 aircraft to be delivered would remain in these (Qatar) colours, especially when a new repaint is not yet necessary. This is not unusual, especially for cargo aircraft. Why else would they go through the trouble to remove all the Qatar titles and logos if the aircraft would be fully repainted? Adding a simple hybrid Air Belgium title and logo is not excluded of course.

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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by TLspotting »

BigJets wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 11:23 I would not be surprised if OO-CMA and even the 3 remaining A330 aircraft to be delivered would remain in these (Qatar) colours, especially when a new repaint is not yet necessary. This is not unusual, especially for cargo aircraft. Why else would they go through the trouble to remove all the Qatar titles and logos if the aircraft would be fully repainted? Adding a simple hybrid Air Belgium title and logo is not excluded of course.
AB title and logo stickers would have been done in Brussels or even in Doha...
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Sabena320
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by Sabena320 »

BigJets wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 11:23 Why else would they go through the trouble to remove all the Qatar titles and logos if the aircraft would be fully repainted?
I'm quite sure QR will never let another airline fly with its livery, the aircraft is not owned by QR anymore.

BigJets
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by BigJets »

Sabena320 wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 13:56
BigJets wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 11:23 Why else would they go through the trouble to remove all the Qatar titles and logos if the aircraft would be fully repainted?
I'm quite sure QR will never let another airline fly with its livery, the aircraft is not owned by QR anymore.
Even if it's going straight to the paint shop (with a stopover in Brussels)? But, you could be right, especially if it's contract bound.
I would love to see that aircraft in full Air Belgium "Cargo" colours.

ZavCity
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by ZavCity »

Air Belgium is not the owner, only the operator..CMA group has nice painted ships..Would be great to see this plane in thes colors with"operated byAir Belgium" titles on it!
Painting is done in DUB..But honestly I think it will be boring white like most other "new" airlines!
gtz
paul

PttU
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Re: Air Belgium in 2021

Post by PttU »

ZavCity wrote: 15 Feb 2021, 16:02 CMA group has nice painted ships..Would be great to see this plane in thes colors with"operated byAir Belgium" titles on it!
Dark Blue on top, red belly? :s

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