Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

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Matt
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Matt »

Poiu wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 14:39
Matt wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 12:06
The guy basically does what he wants here. Mods don't do anything about this guy. ( you should know this already )

Also: mods: the posts above could imply racism ( monkeys, I think Leopold also used those words... ) ;) but it's flanker and he gets away with all kind of bullshit.
Whilst I fully agree with you that the message isn’t brought in the most appropriate way, we should not throw away the baby with the bath water!
There are some individuals and companies out there which are not respecting the rules and recommendations, there is a significant risk this behaviour will harm aviation even more in these difficult times.
There’s nothing wrong with naming and shaming them, I would even argue it’s displaying civic responsibility, but let’s stay civilised indeed.
Of course. I agree with the fact that people are just being foolish and not cautious enough.

Calling them monkeys however is a few bridges too far. It's the way the message is brought that I have a problem with.

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sn26567
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by sn26567 »

Thanks for bringing that post to our attention. Of course it is not acceptable to call people monkeys, even if it is toned down as "gentlemonkey".

On the other hand, travelling on a plane and refusing to wear a mask is even less acceptable. I don't know how such people could be named.

Now let's move forward and discuss aviation.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Conti764
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 08:53
Conti764 wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 00:17
I wasn't referring to the mask you wear, that's entirely your choice.

The way you address other people is more of an issue.
Other people not wearing a mask or airlines ignoring the Covid rules are an even bigger issue.
Sure, screaming at a complete stranger to put his fucking mask on is acceptable social behaviour.

And for the unruly passenger, he should have been kicked off the plane in the first place if he chooses to disobey the current rules and the directions of the crew.

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Conti764
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Conti764 »

sn26567 wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 18:37 On the other hand, travelling on a plane and refusing to wear a mask is even less acceptable. I don't know how such people could be named.

Now let's move forward and discuss aviation.
They should be named for what they are: unruly passengers. If it's up to me they should be kicked off the plane immediately since the obligation to wear a mask is sufficiently known by now.

Since airlines care about their image: one (1) warning can be given.

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Conti764
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 14:39
Matt wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 12:06
The guy basically does what he wants here. Mods don't do anything about this guy. ( you should know this already )

Also: mods: the posts above could imply racism ( monkeys, I think Leopold also used those words... ) ;) but it's flanker and he gets away with all kind of bullshit.
Whilst I fully agree with you that the message isn’t brought in the most appropriate way, we should not throw away the baby with the bath water!
There are some individuals and companies out there which are not respecting the rules and recommendations, there is a significant risk this behaviour will harm aviation even more in these difficult times.
There’s nothing wrong with naming and shaming them, I would even argue it’s displaying civic responsibility, but let’s stay civilised indeed.
Absolutely. People who wilfully choose to ignore to wear a mask should be kicked off immediately, and in public space be fined directly.

In a service oriented industry as aviation a warning could be given beforehand, but one chance suffices.

I have been at Pairie Daisa today and although you're not obliged to wear your mask everywhere, I did so since I didn't even bother putting it up and down each time. And judging by the number of visitors who were constantly wearing their masks, many people seem to think so. You'll get used to it, so I don't understand why it should be such an issue for some...

Passenger
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Passenger »

I don't believe that story.

1. With easyJet, facial masks are mandatory. Passengers not doing so inflight, know that they risk to be confronted with the police upon arrival. If they don't wear a mask during deboarding, they even risk an immediate fine.
2. If I see someone without facial mask in a supermarket, I do not address that person because I don't know how that person would react. I discretely tell a staff member about the issue. And here, we're supposed to believe that our source shouted to that other passenger?
3. Crew is well informed they must check that passengers wear facial masks at alle times, unless when they eat/drink. I can't imagine that all easyJet cabin crew have failed to notice that guy, when checking the cabin.
4. The poster has the irresistable urge to proof the world that aviation is causing a new corona uproar. This story serves that purpose excellent. When it's true...
5. Given the posters' trumendous and unlimited knowledge of the above risk of corona for aviation (he even opened a special topic for this), it is uncredible and inbelievable that he would have flown without having bought a preaseating to avoid the deadly middle seat.
6. The poster told us once he walked from Kinshasa Airport to the Memling hotel in downtown Kinshasa. Someone posting such nonsense, is unreliable as source.

Flanker2
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Flanker2 »

Passenger wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 22:57 I don't believe that story.

1. With easyJet, facial masks are mandatory. Passengers not doing so inflight, know that they risk to be confronted with the police upon arrival. If they don't wear a mask during deboarding, they even risk an immediate fine.
2. If I see someone without facial mask in a supermarket, I do not address that person because I don't know how that person would react. I discretely tell a staff member about the issue. And here, we're supposed to believe that our source shouted to that other passenger?
3. Crew is well informed they must check that passengers wear facial masks at alle times, unless when they eat/drink. I can't imagine that all easyJet cabin crew have failed to notice that guy, when checking the cabin.
4. The poster has the irresistable urge to proof the world that aviation is causing a new corona uproar. This story serves that purpose excellent. When it's true...
5. Given the posters' trumendous and unlimited knowledge of the above risk of corona for aviation (he even opened a special topic for this), it is uncredible and inbelievable that he would have flown without having bought a preaseating to avoid the deadly middle seat.
6. The poster told us once he walked from Kinshasa Airport to the Memling hotel in downtown Kinshasa. Someone posting such nonsense, is unreliable as source.
1. Next time I'll take a picture for you. By the way, he was not the only one. People don't know that they risk being welcomed by police, how would they know that? Also, if a passenger complies after a crew points it out, there would be no repercussions. The cabin crew did not enforce it well on this flight.

2. Yeah, like I'm going to call cabin crew during a landing roll out. I'm ging to tell the "unruly passenger" myself, they do it in their pants when I get my angry face on. Not the first time I've confronted unruly passengers. In fact, I have once screamed at a group of 5 or 6 Drunk Polish passengers who were shouting bad words the entire flight in presence of children. It came close to a confrontation, in fact I was planning to make a hole in their face the moment they made a move.
Cabin crew in Europe are too passive, they want to get home on time. I don't blame them, but that doesn't mean that passengers get a pass under my watch.

3. I don't know exactly when the guy stopped wearing the mask, but I found out when I realised that his voice was coming through to smoothly when he was talking to a fellow. These were an entire group too, so what, I'm going to keep my mouth shut and look in front of me?

4. I don't have to justify myself. Putting people should to shoulder on a plane is irresponsible. It's not rocket science. Ah well, I'm not going to score point on an aviation forum with that, but you guys don't realise that this will hurt aviation because it will inevitably contribute, together with other factors, to new lockdowns and groundings. To me it's like you guys are trying to bankrupt all these airlines.

5. Actually, there are workarounds. Not going to advertise them, not the purpose of my rants.

6. Your memory is failing you.

Flanker2
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Flanker2 »

sn26567 wrote: 03 Aug 2020, 18:37 Thanks for bringing that post to our attention. Of course it is not acceptable to call people monkeys, even if it is toned down as "gentlemonkey".

On the other hand, travelling on a plane and refusing to wear a mask is even less acceptable. I don't know how such people could be named.

Now let's move forward and discuss aviation.
I think that monkey is an acceptable term to describe ignorant people who despite all the media coverage and warnings, still can't keep their masks on.
I'm not naming a particular person, or a particular gender or race, it doesn't invade anyone's privacy, and humans are primates too, so why not?
We have to stop being politically correct and start having this difficult conversation with everyone who keeps the nonsense up.


I welcome some of the previous posters like Conti who strongly condemn people who don't wear their masks.
In fact, I think that they should mention penalties for failure to wear their masks during the safety briefing, like some airlines do about smoking in the lavatories.

If we want airlines to keep flying, we need the airlines showing that they are actually doing the best they can.
I know that it's not simple to keep middle seats empty, but then again, keeping several rows empty and pax in rows behind them packed together is nonsense that the Easyjet cabin crew should have addressed. Reassigning the 3 rows of empty seats to 6 rows worth of middle seat people travelling alone doesn't cost them anything. Weight and balance can be dealt with on the spot too, it's not rocket science. Better even, this can be dealt with during seat assignments. In fact, now is not the time to make money on seat selection. Old greedy habits rearing their ugly face??
In fact, if we ignore the middle seat issue for households and parties travelling together, I'm pretty sure everyone on the flight could have been distanced even if it was 90% full, because most travellers were families with children and groups of young people.
Keeping the middle seat empty except for parties travelling together is a no-brainer and does not result in losing 1/3rd of capacity like airlines fear.
Stop fighting safeguards, embrace them, implement them, make passengers feel safe, and we'll fly.
Otherwise, be prepared for more lockdowns, groundings, bankruptcies.

To complete the story, I was not the only one who moved to one of the empty rows.
Another middle-seat guy moved to sit in the window seat across the aisle after I did.

We can see that airlines are evolving in this crisis.
Easyjet is doing some things right and I have pointed those out too.
I hope that airlines pick up on these experiences and improve themselves.


History will show that airlines were the biggest contributors to Covid becoming a pandemic. My personal finances and plans have been hit too, I have reasons to be upset. I'm still trying to stay constructive despite being very upset, probably because I love aviation like most of us here.
Airlines are just being irresponsbile like so many of us and I can tell you, I'm struggling to make even my own family members take this seriously.
Still, I can only wonder how enraged some people who have lost loved ones must feel. Wait until documentaries start telling the story of how the disease spread, there will be widespread backlash on airlines.



Last edited by Flanker2 on 04 Aug 2020, 00:26, edited 1 time in total.

gumblebee
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by gumblebee »

Flanker2 wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 00:12 Keeping the middle seat empty except for parties travelling together is a no-brainer and does not result in losing 1/3rd of capacity like airlines fear.
I would even dare to propose to make this a paid option (50% surcharge) during online booking. While this crisis lasts this could be mandatory for passengers travelling alone or for groups that are not multiples of 3 passengers. This would also alleviate most problems for heavy-built passengers and their neighbours, at a reasonable surcharge.

Flanker2
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Flanker2 »

gumblebee wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 00:23
Flanker2 wrote: 04 Aug 2020, 00:12 Keeping the middle seat empty except for parties travelling together is a no-brainer and does not result in losing 1/3rd of capacity like airlines fear.
I would even dare to propose to make this a paid option (50% surcharge) during online booking. While this crisis lasts this could be mandatory for passengers travelling alone or for groups that are not multiples of 3 passengers. This would also alleviate most problems for heavy-built passengers and their neighbours, at a reasonable surcharge.
Indeed.
I've been thinking to book myself two seats just to be safe but then again, I didn't expect to be assigned the only unoccupied middle seat when checking in 4 hours before departure and seeing 3 empty rows at the front, 2 empty overwing exit rows, and 2 empty rows at the back on the seatmap.
I didn't expect Easyjet to be so greedy, the empty rows at the front and the overwing exit were being sold for 20+ Euro's. No wonder that almost nobody is booking them. If I had to book two seats and purchase the seat selection for the two seats, I it would have set me back quite a lot

I've already done my part to help Easyjet and other airlines, accepting hundreds of Euro's worth of vouchers. You give them a hand, they'll take your arm. There is a point where it starts to makes more sense to go for the full-face mask.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Italy threatens Ryanair with flight ban over COVID-19 safety rules

Italy's civil aviation authority ENAC threatened to suspend Ryanair's permit to fly to the country citing non-compliance with COVID-19 safety rules.

ENAC said in a statement that "Ryanair systematically does not comply" with national regulations to reduce the risk of COVID-19 transmission when flying to and from Italian airports.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/05/ita ... fety-rules

Charlie Roy
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Charlie Roy »

I flew with New New New New Alitalia last weekend. There was no distancing before, during or after boarding... I guess ENAC have also warned them? :geek:

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lumumba
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by lumumba »

Charlie Roy wrote: 05 Aug 2020, 23:08 I flew with New New New New Alitalia last weekend. There was no distancing before, during or after boarding... I guess ENAC have also warned them? :geek:
But we have to protect Alitalia not Ryanair!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by rwandan-flyer »

lumumba wrote: 06 Aug 2020, 00:56
Charlie Roy wrote: 05 Aug 2020, 23:08 I flew with New New New New Alitalia last weekend. There was no distancing before, during or after boarding... I guess ENAC have also warned them? :geek:
But we have to protect Alitalia not Ryanair!


"Italy has allowed airlines to derogate from social distancing rules if they take other steps to protect passengers from coronavirus instead." ;)

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/tra ... -1.4323049

I think it's non only based on Audits, but probably based on Passengers complains, which probably are too many

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Delta blacklists more than 100 passengers for refusing to wear masks, says airline boss

Delta has banned more than “100 people” from flying for refusing to wear a mask, according to the airline’s CEO.

Ed Bastian said that passengers who refused to comply with the carrier’s requirement that they wear face coverings at all times are being temporarily blacklisted.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 55216.html

American Airlines removes passenger from flight for wearing anti-police face mask

The mask, which said "F***-12," is a reference to the movement to defund police departments.

American Airlines turned a plane around before takeoff in Miami last week and removed a passenger who insisted on wearing a face mask with an anti-police message that included the F-word.

Passenger Arlinda Johns, known in South Florida as an activist, was removed from a July 29 flight from Miami to St. Louis after repeatedly being asked to take off a mask with the phrase “F***-12″ printed on it, according to Miami ABC affiliate Local10. The mask included the F-word spelled out.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... face-mask/

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by rwandan-flyer »

JetBlue Blocks Middle Seat Until October

JetBlue (B6) has today announced it will block middle seats on all of its flights until October 2020.

This comes following its continued support to this scheme in the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Seat distancing for flights operating until October 15 will be implemented where parties are not traveling together.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/jetblue ... l-october/

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by rwandan-flyer »

Strict mask rules? Empty middle seats? We compare airlines’ COVID-19 policies

Devastated by the COVID-19 pandemic, some U.S. airlines are hoping to put potential passengers at ease by imposing tougher rules for mask wearing, including threats of banning fliers who refuse to cover their faces.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... mpty-seats

US airlines are banning vented masks, which the CDC says don't stop COVID-19

American has joined a growing list of US airlines to ban passengers from wearing vented or valved masks, following updated CDC coronavirus guidance.

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/airli ... rus-2020-8

Flanker2
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Flanker2 »

Hazmat officials board Ryanair flight at Stansted and drag off Covid-infected passenger who broke quarantine by taking seat AFTER getting text alert that he had tested positive in airport
Passenger was told they had tested positive via text as they sat on the Ryanair plane preparing to head to Pisa
Footage shows three hazmat-clad officials on plane preparing to escort off male passenger and companion
Their seats and the overhead cabin bins were disinfected before the flight was allowed to head to Italy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ssage.html


But don't worry, all is fine and nobody will ever get infected on a flight because "aviation experts" say so.

Flanker2
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by Flanker2 »

We now have evidence of on-board transmission of the virus on at least one flight:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53966897
Last edited by luchtzak on 01 Sep 2020, 08:24, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Text removed (copyright)

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luchtzak
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Re: Impact of aviation on the Coronavirus crisis

Post by luchtzak »

Flanker2 wrote: 01 Sep 2020, 02:16 We now have evidence of on-board transmission of the virus on at least one flight:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53966897
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/tui- ... and-wales/

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