Air Antwerp in 2020

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Vic Diesel
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by Vic Diesel »

saratoga wrote:
07 Mar 2020, 09:48
Very nice footage. Tx

I am really wondering what future Air Antwerp has in mind. Ok the ANR-LCY is back. Good load factors, enough freq’s, again stability. Like the old days. All nice, but i am wondering what their vision is. You don’t start a new company just to operate 1 single route and that’s it. As we all know the ex-VLM tried many different routes without big succes. So i am perhaps a bit pessimistic, but is there a future for air antwerp to grow in one way or the other?
Exactly this (fly 1 route) is the key to success for small regional carrier People's (formerly known as "People's Viennaline), that took up the VIE-ACH route after it was abandoned by Austrian Airlines in 2010. They successfully operated the route with a single E170 aircraft since, with occasional charter flights. They only ran into difficulties after they expanded and bought a second E170 trying to fly more charter flights and that senseless ACH-FDH-CGN route. Currently they try to get rid of that second aircraft, having cut back charters and concentrating on the ACH-VIE route only. So there can be cases when it makes sense for an airline to concentrate on a single route.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, working in Brussels)

AAI
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by AAI »

Most of the companies say : " we don't fly till ..... that day "
Air Antwerp says : " we start to fly again on may 4th ! "
that's the positive attitude !

saratoga
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by saratoga »

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... s-contract

Wondering if the air antwerp project will be at stake??

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cathay belgium
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

Two options if Cityjet goes bankrupt..

A. They were making money = KLM takes over fully, Blue plane, KLM antwerp, KLM London Cityflyer , KLM London hopper....

B. They were NOT making money = game over, no Panic.

If you can't make money with an old paid plane when fuel is as low as now, no need to sustain further really..

So, we will see how they were doing after the Covid crisis is over...
Woud be pity to see them gone but after all those years I bet for sure another one will try again soon enough ;)

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140-E190E2

sean1982
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

cathay belgium wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 10:03

B. They were NOT making money = game over, no Panic.

Very sympathetic to the people who will lose their job.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

Well, maybe not , sorry for that, but such reactions can you post in several topics now... Brussels Airlines, Norwegian,...
Besides14000 Workers of Alitalia reading luchtzak will get a heart attack if they read how people here were desperate wanting Alitalia go bust for years now ;)
Even outside aviation lots of people will loose their jobs..

So sorry no sorry, it's real no ?

Back on topic ;)

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140-E190E2

crew1990
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

I never understood the point of the Antwerp - London City route. flying to London Cit ok it have a real value but what about Antwerp.

To go from to the city center of Anwterp it's just 32 minutes with the train. How do you want succeed from this airport.

AAI
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by AAI »

you can't book a LCY in may anymore
june is still available
but that isn't a good sign !

koninckske
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by koninckske »

https://airantwerp.com/COVID-19-measures/COVID19
All scheduled flights on the route Antwerp Airport-London City Airport are cancelled up to and including 31 May 2020 at this time. In addition all mid-day flights WP120 and WP121 are cancelled up to and including 21 June 2020. Until further notice the first flights to operate after this close-out period will be WP100-101 on Monday 1 June 2020.

Did you think it would be possible to start again on May 4th like they planned before?

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

VLM was the only one who was very successful at Antwerp with many routes. They made more than 8 years in a row profit. It went wrong as from the moment that foreign investors showed up.

Many came after and the same number failed.

So my idea is why not Brussels Airlines? If there would be a switch from smaller plane types from the group to SN, they could maybe start up a small base there and offering flights to the UK.

Just an idea bcs something has to change in the near future

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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

koninckske wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:00
https://airantwerp.com/COVID-19-measures/COVID19
All scheduled flights on the route Antwerp Airport-London City Airport are cancelled up to and including 31 May 2020 at this time. In addition all mid-day flights WP120 and WP121 are cancelled up to and including 21 June 2020. Until further notice the first flights to operate after this close-out period will be WP100-101 on Monday 1 June 2020.

Did you think it would be possible to start again on May 4th like they planned before?
We discovered it at the same time :D
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

crew1990
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Atlantis wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:01
VLM was the only one who was very successful at Antwerp with many routes. They made more than 8 years in a row profit. It went wrong as from the moment that foreign investors showed up.

Many came after and the same number failed.

So my idea is why not Brussels Airlines? If there would be a switch from smaller plane types from the group to SN, they could maybe start up a small base there and offering flights to the UK.

Just an idea bcs something has to change in the near future
I think as well it should be a route for Brussels Airlines, Belgium have to be linked with London City, but not out of a little regional airport.

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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

crew1990 wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:37
Atlantis wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:01
VLM was the only one who was very successful at Antwerp with many routes. They made more than 8 years in a row profit. It went wrong as from the moment that foreign investors showed up.

Many came after and the same number failed.

So my idea is why not Brussels Airlines? If there would be a switch from smaller plane types from the group to SN, they could maybe start up a small base there and offering flights to the UK.

Just an idea bcs something has to change in the near future
I think as well it should be a route for Brussels Airlines, Belgium have to be linked with London City, but not out of a little regional airport.
VLM had a route, 10 years ago I believe between BRU and LCY.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

ironspan
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by ironspan »

AAI wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 11:34
you can't book a LCY in may anymore
june is still available
but that isn't a good sign !
The lockdown in the UK has been extended till at least the 2nd week of May. In Belgium, it is still not clear when international travel can start (borders remain closed till 3rd of May for sure). How could you then expect they would start flying again early May? Nothing to do with ‘not a good sign’, more to do with carefully considering how to re-start their operations. Temporarily cancelling the afternoon flight is also a good measure. Think positively, they are still announcing they will start flying again (without asking the Belgian government for a loan/support like others do!), which means they must have received some guarantee from their shareholders that they can continue. We should get concerned if Cityjet would go bankrupt, or when KLM would be too much focused on their own (or Air France) issues. As somebody said, luckily they are a very small operator with little cost and very good load factors (before corona). And no, the train to BRU is not a solution for business people on shorter flights (and even not for tourists, considering the full load factors and high yield on the TUI-flights).

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Established02
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by Established02 »

Atlantis wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:01
VLM was the only one who was very successful at Antwerp with many routes. They made more than 8 years in a row profit. It went wrong as from the moment that foreign investors showed up.

Many came after and the same number failed.
Not sure what period you're referring to, but it's probably the period when VLM was in the hands of the Dutch entrepreneur Jaap Jacobson. I understand VLM was able to make some money during that time because of the large amount of valuable LCY slots they controlled and the limited competition on a few profitable routes like MAN-LCY and RTM-LCY. Jacobson sold VLM right on time, before the situation at LCY changed structurally.

Poiu
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by Poiu »

TLspotting wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:45

VLM had a route, 10 years ago I believe between BRU and LCY.
Yes indeed, and they discontinued it because of disappointing pax numbers.

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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

Poiu wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 15:07
TLspotting wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:45

VLM had a route, 10 years ago I believe between BRU and LCY.
Yes indeed, and they discontinued it because of disappointing pax numbers.
If Eurostar was stopping at Antwerp Central then it would be no problem, because indeed from Brussels to Antwerp you have to take the train, then the bus, it would have been easier to extend the tram network at least...
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Established02 wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 14:03
Atlantis wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:01
VLM was the only one who was very successful at Antwerp with many routes. They made more than 8 years in a row profit. It went wrong as from the moment that foreign investors showed up.

Many came after and the same number failed.
Not sure what period you're referring to, but it's probably the period when VLM was in the hands of the Dutch entrepreneur Jaap Jacobson. I understand VLM was able to make some money during that time because of the large amount of valuable LCY slots they controlled and the limited competition on a few profitable routes like MAN-LCY and RTM-LCY. Jacobson sold VLM right on time, before the situation at LCY changed structurally.
No, completely not. It was the period before the Dutch came. I think they took over VLM in 2008 and transformed it inti Cityjet.
I'm talking the period before that. It was even not 8 year but even 10 years in a row that they made profit. The management was also very solid with a Belgian CEO

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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by PttU »

crew1990 wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 11:28
I never understood the point of the Antwerp - London City route. flying to London Cit ok it have a real value but what about Antwerp.

To go from to the city center of Anwterp it's just 32 minutes with the train. How do you want succeed from this airport.
crew1990 wrote:
18 Apr 2020, 13:37
I think as well it should be a route for Brussels Airlines, Belgium have to be linked with London City, but not out of a little regional airport.
At ANR you can arrive 30min or less before your flight leaves, and still have plenty of time. After arriving (with only hand luggage), you're out of the door in no time. For a flight of about an hour, 10 minutes are a big deal: BRU is just too big for this kind of route...
Yes: you can travel from the centre of the city to BRU in 32 minutes, but that's only relevant if you live close enough to the train station. From BRU to LCY, you loose more time at BRU, and the comparison to the Eurostar gets closer regarding travel time.
I don't think it's a route for Brussels Airlines: it will always be a little side project not really cared for (they won't open more routes from ANR), and for the financial stability or monetary backing of this route, SN isn't a great choice either. So it's better to leave it with someone more specialised for this kind of routes. CityJet, VLM,... were great, Air Antwerp is great. If they don't make it, I hope someone else will step in.

On another note: as they only have one F50, that plane needs maintenance too. Does anybody know if they're using this downtime to do the checks they need to do every so many hours/cycles?

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Re: Air Antwerp in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

Funny how so many people react as being stung by a bee when it comes to SN when you say something controversial,however they don't seem to mind to throw other colleagues under the bus easily.

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