Brussels Airlines in 2020

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sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

Inquirer wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:23

It's a dead wrong conclusion since none of us is a shareholder of this company (and thus not affected by profits/losses), so the bottom line results of the past are totally irrelevant to us.
Well, we will be soon if our tax money is poured into it first of all and secondly, not all governments around the world are taking this stance as we start to see airlines fail now. With the massive debts racking up in Belgium too, I think I read that we are already set back economically for about 10 years now, I hope the government (what government?) spends wisely. Its a bold statement to make that an airline with about 30 planes (if we are lucky, I'm guessing less) is responsible for the whole economic welfare of Belgium.
Last edited by sean1982 on 21 Apr 2020, 16:43, edited 1 time in total.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

How come ? Where that news for tomorrow ??
Any meeting announcement ? Gov., SN of LH ?

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781

Deejay
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Deejay »

I am convinced that our hopelessly divided country needs a little economical patriotism.

Through this endless regional disputes, we lack at the same time long term vision AND ambition.

We "gave away" Electrabel to the french, and our banks (Fortis and BBL) to the french and the dutch.
and now we regularly see the consequences... (nuclear plants discussion, BNP dividends, etc .... )

Having a national carrier is a big advantage for a country...

I still do not understand how the Swiss can manage to have a profitable airline out of a smaller country, and with two hubs, GVA and ZRH
and at the same time have a large intercontinental network
and a "tourist" airline: Edelweiss

Why is this is not possible in Belgium, with Europe's capital, Nato etc ... ???

at least two reasons:
we shoot ourselves in the foot by organizing unfair competition with a low cost airport a few km from Brussels (but in another region... ), you do not see that in Switzerland, or Austria.

and we tolerate crazy ticket prices from lowcost airlines (which, on top, is bad for the climate .... )

FlyingUnicorn
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by FlyingUnicorn »

Deejay wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 17:02 I am convinced that our hopelessly divided country needs a little economical patriotism.

Through this endless regional disputes, we lack at the same time long term vision AND ambition.

We "gave away" Electrabel to the french, and our banks (Fortis and BBL) to the french and the dutch.
and now we regularly see the consequences... (nuclear plants discussion, BNP dividends, etc .... )

Having a national carrier is a big advantage for a country...

I still do not understand how the Swiss can manage to have a profitable airline out of a smaller country, and with two hubs, GVA and ZRH
and at the same time have a large intercontinental network
and a "tourist" airline: Edelweiss

Why is this is not possible in Belgium, with Europe's capital, Nato etc ... ???

at least two reasons:
we shoot ourselves in the foot by organizing unfair competition with a low cost airport a few km from Brussels (but in another region... ), you do not see that in Switzerland, or Austria.

and we tolerate crazy ticket prices from lowcost airlines (which, on top, is bad for the climate .... )
Totally agree on all those points! Plus the connection to Africa. The know how.

So many opportunities... but no interest in putting aviation as the main focus point and building something around it.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

A low cost airport in Belgium is good for CRL, the pax.and Belgium...
Living in a small country, if they don't go to CRL they go to Eindhoven,Lille, Weeze for those flights...
Even lots of dutch and french make use of CRL !
Or do you think all those Air Belgium flights to Guadeloupe and Martinique are filled with belgians which have not even a small connection with those isles ??

Having a big airline in your own country is An advantage indeed but we gave that away a long time ago..

Once you gave it away it will never come back..
Like the banks and energy...

So no need to discuss these losses and deal with the situation now... ;)

Sabena was an icon but will never come back, ..

In fact why Swiss ? Is not even a question...
SN is LX is OS = LH
Never noticed before ?

SN is a few years gone now..
The name is there but it's all LH who rules out..
Just like in Switzerland ;)

No time for wheeping , we gave it also away for peanuts to Germans..
They Will decide and you Will follow...
Or not .. but nobody cares about your opinion as you don't have those stock exchange Papers ;)

Just throw some money to them or not that's the question, but you can't decide anymore..
They do it for you... The Germans..

My guest is that EW Will be back the table ..

Tried to book some flights the last hour on their website !

Didn't saw anytime so much Swiss and Lufthansa flights in between ;)

Well that sure say something to me... And to you ?

CXB
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781

Shonix
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Shonix »

Deejay wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 17:02
we shoot ourselves in the foot by organizing unfair competition with a low cost airport a few km from Brussels (but in another region... ), you do not see that in Switzerland, or Austria.

and we tolerate crazy ticket prices from lowcost airlines (which, on top, is bad for the climate .... )
Please tell us more about your definition of "unfair competition" and "low cost airport". There is room for everyone.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

Shonix wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 19:09
Deejay wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 17:02
we shoot ourselves in the foot by organizing unfair competition with a low cost airport a few km from Brussels (but in another region... ), you do not see that in Switzerland, or Austria.

and we tolerate crazy ticket prices from lowcost airlines (which, on top, is bad for the climate .... )
Please tell us more about your definition of "unfair competition" and "low cost airport". There is room for everyone.
Indeed, if “economic patriotism” means excluding your citizens for better value for money, then count me out.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by RoMax »

sean1982 wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 19:52
Shonix wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 19:09
Deejay wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 17:02
we shoot ourselves in the foot by organizing unfair competition with a low cost airport a few km from Brussels (but in another region... ), you do not see that in Switzerland, or Austria.

and we tolerate crazy ticket prices from lowcost airlines (which, on top, is bad for the climate .... )
Please tell us more about your definition of "unfair competition" and "low cost airport". There is room for everyone.
Indeed, if “economic patriotism” means excluding your citizens for better value for money, then count me out.
No fair competition should be excluded from the market (if everything about CRL is fair competition, I have my personal doubts, but that's not a discussion I want to go into here). But with regards to your comment of 'better value for money' I do have something small to say - LCC's provide better value for money for A PART of the market, not for everyone as otherwise the legacy or rather hub-network model (which airlines still represent the majority of global air travel) wouldn't even exist anymore (and no that's not just a matter of unfair state support or whatever to one group, that's a knife that cuts at both sides).

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
Not coincidence. Today Austrian informed, Luchtvaartnieuws, that they will reduce the fleet with 20% by 2022.
Turbo prop will be out, smaller number of A320, 7 A319 out and 3 B767 out
They will keep a fleet of 60 planes.

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

RoMax wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 20:48
No fair competition should be excluded from the market (if everything about CRL is fair competition, I have my personal doubts, but that's not a discussion I want to go into here). But with regards to your comment of 'better value for money' I do have something small to say - LCC's provide better value for money for A PART of the market, not for everyone as otherwise the legacy or rather hub-network model (which airlines still represent the majority of global air travel) wouldn't even exist anymore (and no that's not just a matter of unfair state support or whatever to one group, that's a knife that cuts at both sides).
I agree with you Romax, I didnt say that LCC is always better value for money as it depends on what the customer wants. What I wanted to say is that if "patriotic economics" mean that that part of the market is automatically denied, then im totally against it.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Deejay wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 17:02 at least two reasons
3. Flag carrier was run into the ground by bad decisions and activist unions.
4. National government doesn’t care about aviation and has no long term agenda.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
Tomorrow is today. Something happened ?

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by b.lufthansa »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
No news ? :roll:

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

b.lufthansa wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 17:49
Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
No news ? :roll:
Nothing at the moment, we keep you in touch if we have anything new to share.
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 16:03
Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
Tomorrow is today. Something happened ?
For as far as we know, no big announcement (like e.g. Austrian's press release) made at today's "virtual meeting". But maybe an insider can tell more?
André
ex Sabena #26567

Darjeeling
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Darjeeling »

sn26567 wrote: 23 Apr 2020, 00:52
nordikcam wrote: 22 Apr 2020, 16:03
Boeing767copilot wrote: 21 Apr 2020, 16:42 Tomorrow is D-Day for Brussels Airlines. Possibly large number of layoffs for a much smaller but viable carrier.
Curious.
Tomorrow is today. Something happened ?
For as far as we know, no big announcement (like e.g. Austrian's press release) made at today's "virtual meeting". But maybe an insider can tell more?
Nothing really new as I've heard.
- Priority for longhaul is to restart Africa in July, sanitary situation permitting. But they don't forecast the same Covid mayhem in Africa than in Europe and America
- Montreal shelved until further notice and significant changes in the situation. Forward yields pre-Covid were terrible anyway.
- JFK/IAD service aren't a priority for the restart, feeding potential isn't clear at the moment
- Lufthansa waits for the Belgian Govt bail-out position before giving a real plan for SN and its final stance
- Most of the "Reboot" measures are shelved as it's no longer adapted to the current employment situation
- Nothing really clear about the DUS hub situation
- Mandatory part-time will be the way to go, most probably.

It is sure that they got less informations elements from LH than OS did.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

maybe during the crisis, but after I think it's a good idea to focus on Africa.

Globaly, demand will be decreasing because the business will need some time to recover. Of course some people travel to Africa for business purpose but the majority of the PAX on african flight are traveling for family purpose, and this type of demand will be less affected

sean1982
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sean1982 »

The crisis has taken another turn. Even mother Luftie is now fearing it won’t be able to pay its bills anymore in the next couple of weeks. It is talking about a couple of billion EUR of outstanding bills.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Long day for the guys and gals operating SN1055 today.

OO-SFG left BRU at 04:45 bound to Yaounde. Then a quick hop to Accra to pick more pax (suppose this was a repatriation flight).
Currently abeam PMI with ETA BRU 21:54.
Even with a double crew this makes a very hard day. Congrats.

H.A.

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