Brussels Airlines in 2020

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longwings
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 03:51

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by longwings »

crew1990 wrote: 22 Nov 2020, 14:28 My point was that, you have days with 6 long haul flights a day (saturday's) and plenty of connecting flight, and day with one single flight. There is just a problem with the use of the fleet. The demand is low (thank you sn26567 I didn't know :roll: ) but it doesn't mean that you can't split the production more equally during the week. In therm of long haul aircraft, as there is only 22 long haul flight per week, it could be 3 flight per day with one day of the week 4 long haul flight. 4 A330 active would be sufficient to reduce the cost instead of activation 6 aircraft.
In a world where you have enough O/D passengers ex-BRU, you would be right. IBut you mentioned connecting flight and my guess is there lies your answer.

If long haul to Africa needs connecting traffic from Canada/US, it makes sense to concentrate as many flights as possible to depart on days Air Canada and United land.

If they need the European feed but there isn't enough demand to run a full bank 7 days a week (see the single flight to LHR), consolidating onto fewer days is again a better option than daily flights.

Also to consider what to do with the "extra" aircraft if they operate daily? Not like the lessor wants them back, so flying them may be a better option than parking them. For the A330s doing a RON at destination, having the same crew operate both inbound and outbound legs is cheaper than having enough crew for daily ops.

Other costs (fuel, overflight, landing & handling fees, etc.) don't vary much whether an airline operates a daily flights, or seven flights once a week...

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Once again there is no crew operating the out outbound flight AND the inbound flight right after. I m an insider by the way.

If it was possible, don't you think it wouldn't be already the case in normal operation?

The aircraft flying to Dakar take off at 15.25 and is back at 5.35 in Brussels. It make 14.10 add to that 1h15 for the pre-flight duty and 20min for the post flight duty and you have a total of 15.45 duty including a night flight. Come on be realistic please

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bracebrace »

crew1990 wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 11:47If it was possible, don't you think it wouldn't be already the case in normal operation?
It is possible, double crew flights happen on a regular basis when it's not "advisable" to stay local (think unsafe to stay due to political instability or even current covid conditions). Been there, done that.

But it's not that simple to cope with for a company as positioning does not count as rest, and the company simply "loses" time anytime a crew has to position.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

Bracebrace wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 14:50
crew1990 wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 11:47If it was possible, don't you think it wouldn't be already the case in normal operation?
It is possible, double crew flights happen on a regular basis when it's not "advisable" to stay local (think unsafe to stay due to political instability or even current covid conditions). Been there, done that.

But it's not that simple to cope with for a company as positioning does not count as rest, and the company simply "loses" time anytime a crew has to position.
It is possible with a DOUBLE crew, but the SAME crew can NOT operate BOTH flights. For the SAME crew this is IMPOSSIBLE

Maybe Nouakshott, Bamako, Ouagadougou and Niamey could work with the same crew but only if the flight is operated with a smaller aircraft like A320 as it would shorten the pre-flight duties 1h instead of 1h15 and shorter the turn around to 1h. But only if there is no night flight, It would mean that the flight should depart around 7am from BRU, the A/R land around 12.30, take off at 13.30 and land at 19.00. This is something witch was already done for Marsa Alam wich was considered as a long haul flight in our operation even if commercially (catering, bagage allowance etc), it was not considered as long haul.

But for flight to Africa, it's harder to make this type of operation because the comfort is not the same, the allowance in term of luggage is different and we have cargo operation. This is why A330 are needed.

The other problem would be the connection, if the flight need to depart really early to avoid to have a night flight to make that the crew do the flight up and down, then you miss all the European connecting flight and the long haul flight from North America that land slightly later than the African one.

Another proble is that it doesn't give any room for any delay, bird strike, slot or technichal problem make that the aircraft would be stuck as the crew would be reaching their limit in duty time, resulting in rebooking all the pax, hotel rooms for all the pax and crew, missed connection, aircraft not back in time at base for the next flights.

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bracebrace »

crew1990 wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 19:38 It is possible with a DOUBLE crew, but the SAME crew can NOT operate BOTH flights. For the SAME crew this is IMPOSSIBLE
Forget my remark on positioning, my mistake, that is only valid when the crew is present outstation (inbound crew staying on board). ;)

Double crews is what I refer to as "2+2" (there is only one commander). I suppose the A330 has bunks. Not sure anymore of those flight time limitations but this might even be possible with 3 pilots. Aerologic used to fly to Hong Kong via Dubai with one crew of 3 pilots I believe.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

After 10 months and despite the contribution of the Belgian State, still no beginning of repayment while AF / KL promptly paid its debts ... and we would have to "fly" SN ? Curious !

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

In the Brussels Airlines A330 for BRU operation, there is no crew bunk. As in the A330/A340 those bunk are located in the cargo area as there is no space in the ceiling like for 777, 787 and A350. SN need all the cargo area for the pax luggages, inbound catering and cargo. Pilot take their rest in the cockpit, and the cabin crew have 4 economy seat at the back, separated with curtains, and some jump seat slightly reclinable also separated with curtains. The A330's used for Eurowing ops are fitted with a crewbunk per requirement as the flights are longer. But even with proper resting area, it would not change the maximum duty time of the crew.

If you add an extra pilot, you can add 2 hours in duty time. Thomas cook use to have 3 pilots on triangular flight to Egypt like Brussels-Hurghada-Luxor-Brussels for example. But even with a third pilot you can't make it, Dakar is the shortest long haul flight we have, the scheduled outbound flight is 6h15, the inbound flight is 5.55. So just the flight time is already 12.10 add to that the 1.15 prior the flight 1h10 turnaround and 20min post duty and you have a duty time of 14h55.

longwings
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by longwings »

crew1990 wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 11:47 Once again there is no crew operating the out outbound flight AND the inbound flight right after. I m an insider by the way.
I don't think anyone is arguing single-crew op when the plane does a same-day turn. But if you take BRU-ACC-LFW or BRU-EBB-BJM as example, with the plane on the ground for 20 hours before the return, there is enough rest time for the same crew to operate the inbound and outbound legs, is there not?

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

longwings wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 03:28 I don't think anyone is arguing single-crew op when the plane does a same-day turn. But if you take BRU-ACC-LFW or BRU-EBB-BJM as example, with the plane on the ground for 20 hours before the return, there is enough rest time for the same crew to operate the inbound and outbound legs, is there not?
Actually Bel33 did, this is why I was explaining all of this :-)
Bel33 wrote: 25 Nov 2020, 17:04 Sometimes, same crew operates directly the return flight when duration of flight is around 5 hrs

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

lumumba wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 17:24
crew1990 wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 15:41
lumumba wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 15:13 Brussels Airlines stars Brussels Luanda the 15th of February.
And New York.
From when can we go to the USA again?
So nobody can answer this question,so why is Brussels airlines starting to fly to the US ?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 22:03 After 10 months and despite the contribution of the Belgian State, still no beginning of repayment while AF / KL promptly paid its debts ... and we would have to "fly" SN ? Curious !
No one inside SN for answering the question ? When ?...

flightlover
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Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by flightlover »

lumumba wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 22:24
lumumba wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 17:24
crew1990 wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 15:41
And New York.
From when can we go to the USA again?
So nobody can answer this question,so why is Brussels airlines starting to fly to the US ?
There is a global effort starting for transporting vaccines,...

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

flightlover wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 12:01
There is a global effort starting for transporting vaccines,...
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/unit ... -vaccines/

Time for Brussels Airlines to join the bandwagon!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

flightlover wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 12:01
lumumba wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 22:24
lumumba wrote: 26 Nov 2020, 17:24
From when can we go to the USA again?
So nobody can answer this question,so why is Brussels airlines starting to fly to the US ?
There is a global effort starting for transporting vaccines,...
I understand so it will not be passenger flight to NY just cargo!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

crew1990
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Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

New York was normally to start in February, but it has been removed from the booking system this week. Nobody is answering because nobody knows at the moment.

There where an interview with Dieter Vrankx, new, and future ex-ceo of Brussels Airlines, this week, the journalist asked about when those flights would restart and he answered that it will start when it will be profitable, but at the moment there is already flight with partner airlines to north america, feeding the flights.

So the answer to "When will Brussels Airlines be back to north America" the answer is "we don't know" We can't give you any better answer than this one at the moment.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

crew1990 wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 14:23 New York was normally to start in February, but it has been removed from the booking system this week. Nobody is answering because nobody knows at the moment.

There where an interview with Dieter Vrankx, new, and future ex-ceo of Brussels Airlines, this week, the journalist asked about when those flights would restart and he answered that it will start when it will be profitable, but at the moment there is already flight with partner airlines to north america, feeding the flights.

So the answer to "When will Brussels Airlines be back to north America" the answer is "we don't know" We can't give you any better answer than this one at the moment.
Thanks 👍
It's logic those flights where removed but you said there are flights with partner airlines so this mean can we already go to the US from the EU?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by crew1990 »

lumumba wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 14:57 Thanks 👍
It's logic those flights where removed but you said there are flights with partner airlines so this mean can we already go to the US from the EU?
Tous les voyages vers les Etats-Unis sont strictement déconseillés.

En raison de la pandémie de coronavirus (COVID-19), les Etats-Unis ont interdit l’accès au territoire à tous les étrangers ayant séjourné ou transité durant les 14 jours précédant leur voyage aux Etats-Unis dans l’un des pays suivants:

la Chine (hors Hong Kong, Macau et Taiwan - mesure en vigueur depuis le 31 janvier 2020) et l’Iran (mesure en vigueur depuis le 29 février 2020)
les 26 pays de l’ espace Schengen, dont la Belgique (mesure en vigueur depuis le 14 mars 2020)
le Royaume-Uni et l’Irlande (mesure en vigueur depuis le 17 mars 2020)
le Brésil (mesure en vigueur depuis le 26 mai 2020)
Cette interdiction s’applique également aux voyageurs qui transitent via les Etats-Unis vers une autre destination. Les voyageurs ayant séjourné durant les 14 derniers jours dans l’un des pays précités ne peuvent donc plus prendre de vol qui fait escale aux Etats-Unis.

Des exceptions sont prévues pour les résidents permanents légaux et certains membres directs de leur famille (cfr. texte de la proclamation 9984 de la maison Blanche(link is external)).

Les Belges se trouvant actuellement aux Etats-Unis pour une courte période, comme les touristes ou les étudiants, doivent être bien conscients que la prolongation d’un séjour aux Etats-Unis n’est pas simple et que le dépassement de la validité de leur visa de 90 jours peut entraîner des problèmes à long terme. L’assurance et la situation médicale de chacun peuvent également constituer un problème. Afin d’organiser votre retour en Belgique, prenez en premier lieu contact avec votre tour-operator, agence de voyage ou compagnie aérienne. En cas d’urgence, les Belges peuvent prendre contact avec le poste diplomatique compétent pour la circonscription dans laquelle ils se trouvent.

Les mesures adoptées par les Autorités américaines en fonction de l’évolution de la situation sanitaire sont souvent prises avec un préavis très court, parfois même applicables immédiatement. Il convient donc de consulter régulièrement les sites des Départements de santé des différents Etats dont les coordonnées sont consultables via ce lien(link is external).

Les Autorités américaines ont par ailleurs confirmé le 22 juin 2020 la suspension(link is external) au moins jusqu’à la fin 2020 la délivrance des visas de travail pour les catégories de migrants qui - selon eux - représentent un risque pour le marché du travail américain pendant la reprise économique suivant l’épidémie de COVID-19.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/fr/Servic ... etats_unis

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba »

crew1990 wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 15:34
lumumba wrote: 29 Nov 2020, 14:57 Thanks 👍
It's logic those flights where removed but you said there are flights with partner airlines so this mean can we already go to the US from the EU?
Tous les voyages vers les Etats-Unis sont strictement déconseillés.

En raison de la pandémie de coronavirus (COVID-19), les Etats-Unis ont interdit l’accès au territoire à tous les étrangers ayant séjourné ou transité durant les 14 jours précédant leur voyage aux Etats-Unis dans l’un des pays suivants:

la Chine (hors Hong Kong, Macau et Taiwan - mesure en vigueur depuis le 31 janvier 2020) et l’Iran (mesure en vigueur depuis le 29 février 2020)
les 26 pays de l’ espace Schengen, dont la Belgique (mesure en vigueur depuis le 14 mars 2020)
le Royaume-Uni et l’Irlande (mesure en vigueur depuis le 17 mars 2020)
le Brésil (mesure en vigueur depuis le 26 mai 2020)
Cette interdiction s’applique également aux voyageurs qui transitent via les Etats-Unis vers une autre destination. Les voyageurs ayant séjourné durant les 14 derniers jours dans l’un des pays précités ne peuvent donc plus prendre de vol qui fait escale aux Etats-Unis.

Des exceptions sont prévues pour les résidents permanents légaux et certains membres directs de leur famille (cfr. texte de la proclamation 9984 de la maison Blanche(link is external)).

Les Belges se trouvant actuellement aux Etats-Unis pour une courte période, comme les touristes ou les étudiants, doivent être bien conscients que la prolongation d’un séjour aux Etats-Unis n’est pas simple et que le dépassement de la validité de leur visa de 90 jours peut entraîner des problèmes à long terme. L’assurance et la situation médicale de chacun peuvent également constituer un problème. Afin d’organiser votre retour en Belgique, prenez en premier lieu contact avec votre tour-operator, agence de voyage ou compagnie aérienne. En cas d’urgence, les Belges peuvent prendre contact avec le poste diplomatique compétent pour la circonscription dans laquelle ils se trouvent.

Les mesures adoptées par les Autorités américaines en fonction de l’évolution de la situation sanitaire sont souvent prises avec un préavis très court, parfois même applicables immédiatement. Il convient donc de consulter régulièrement les sites des Départements de santé des différents Etats dont les coordonnées sont consultables via ce lien(link is external).

Les Autorités américaines ont par ailleurs confirmé le 22 juin 2020 la suspension(link is external) au moins jusqu’à la fin 2020 la délivrance des visas de travail pour les catégories de migrants qui - selon eux - représentent un risque pour le marché du travail américain pendant la reprise économique suivant l’épidémie de COVID-19.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/fr/Servic ... etats_unis
Merci
Hasta la victoria siempre.

nordikcam
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by nordikcam »

nordikcam wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 22:45
nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 22:03 After 10 months and despite the contribution of the Belgian State, still no beginning of repayment while AF / KL promptly paid its debts ... and we would have to "fly" SN ? Curious !
No one inside SN for answering the question ? When ?...
No answer, I conclude that nobody knows anything! So SN has recovered state aid but does not reimburse the tickets ... there is no longer a network on the North Atlantic and Europe and I have nothing to do in Africa ... I receive advertisements to go to Spain with SN. Does SN think of recovering the injured passengers? Surprising management where there is no information! Any ! Only advertising! Bye SN...

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote: 30 Nov 2020, 13:22
nordikcam wrote: 28 Nov 2020, 22:45
nordikcam wrote: 27 Nov 2020, 22:03 After 10 months and despite the contribution of the Belgian State, still no beginning of repayment while AF / KL promptly paid its debts ... and we would have to "fly" SN ? Curious !
No one inside SN for answering the question ? When ?...
No answer, I conclude that nobody knows anything! So SN has recovered state aid but does not reimburse the tickets ... there is no longer a network on the North Atlantic and Europe and I have nothing to do in Africa ... I receive advertisements to go to Spain with SN. Does SN think of recovering the injured passengers? Surprising management where there is no information! Any ! Only advertising! Bye SN...
I am not an insider, but I reply from own experience: my wife had booked an SN flight from BRU to WAW in July. The flight was cancelled and she was reimbursed in October.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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