Brussels Airlines in 2020

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Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

oldblueeyes wrote: 10 May 2020, 17:56 Patriotic approaches are not bad in their own but they are not realistic to market realities and an open skies Europe.

It's nice to have big dreams on long haul, but the reality is that this work typically in alliance internal JV's. And the alliances are built around big founding members from each continent and each of them has a word to say.

Delta is already a shareholder in AF/KLM and Virgin Atlantic serving already 3 hubs nearby.

IAG has not only UK and Spain but needs also critical mass for DUB.

LH is founding member of the Star Alliance and unlikely that they would stay close friends if they would get a punch in their face. Also they have a very good relation with Neeleman - lastly they were in talks to catch TAP together with United, 20 years ago they were with 25% shareholders in Jet Blue etc.

So where should find a new company friends on the other side of the Ocean that could carry passengers further? Outside JFK which is a markt itself, even highly popular leisure destinations such as Miami were not working for Austrian...

Dreams are always good, but taxpayers' money should go into something feasable.
I think that anemic investments that keep an airline flirting with death for 20 years like SN has been is even less realistic.

To be self-sustaining, an airline needs a "Yes we can and yes we will" attitude.
Not a "maybe, if we try, we might, but I don't know" attitude.
It's already hard enough to run a decent airline with the highest of motivations, if you lack the attitude then you can forget about it.

To be self-sustaining, an airline needs to have mass, economies of scale, bargaining power, influence.

As for the political aspect, if you look at the big names who have been at the head of SN, such as Davignon, political influence is never far away even in a totally private company.
Late Freddy Van Gaever of VLM was also a politician.


Alliances are not critical in a world where codeshares are an option.
There are plenty of airlines anywhere in the world ready to codeshare.
UA/DL/AA don't want to work with you in North America? Fine, ask B6, WN, AS, F9, AC.
Neeleman no longer has influence at B6 and besides, he's too busy juggling funds between TAP, Azul and Breeze that he can't be bothered. He's never been a big friend of LH or United for that matter.

This is also not a concern as SN is already a member of Star Alliance, no LH influence can kick them out and for now this is plenty enough, no reason to leave.

Codeshares with Lufthansa may disappear, but then SN can run their own FRA and ZRH flights, it's not like these flights add a lot of value to SN anyway, they are just feeding LH and LX hubs, SN can use them more proactively to feed the BRU hub.
Why wouldn't SQ work with SN in SIN if SN starts a flight?
Why shouldn't SN work with CX on their HKG flights? Just because LH says so now.

So alliances and codeshares are not really that much of a concern.

Lufthansa Passage and German subsidiaries are about to get 9 Billions.
Over 100.000 EUR of taxpayer money per German staff member in the name of "critical infrastructure".
Time for Belgium to build its own "critical infrastructure", this is not the time to get shaky legs, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to do whatever it takes and put Belgium on the map.

Aviation creates economic activity and stimulates opportunities.
Every 1 EUR coin invested comes back to the government in 100 EUR notes, even if the airline itself may be break-even or even loss-making. The passengers the airline carries brings in business and business brings consumption and jobs, ie VAT, social contributions, personal and corporate income taxes.
Every airline job creates many other jobs down the line.

As a government, you need to look at the big picture.

Do you want to come out of the Coronavirus crisis a weak and battered country and stay that way, or do you want to come out reborn as a global hub for business and diplomacy?
Do you want to come out of the crisis looking like Bangladesh or rather like Dubai?
Do you want to come out of the crisis as Eurowings, Brussels Airlines life or death Zombie (SN of the past 20 years) or as Brussels Airlines International?

It's not about being patriotic.
Either do things the right way, or stay home and play Playstation.
Last edited by Flanker2 on 10 May 2020, 21:49, edited 1 time in total.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

LJ wrote: 10 May 2020, 20:46
Flanker2 wrote: 10 May 2020, 13:15 I'm going to repeat it again and over again if necessary.

This is the time for SN to cut ties with Lufthansa.
AF/KL would welcome your thoughts. They would be greateful if they can have the whole area from The Netherlands till France for themselves.
If Merkel says no to Spohr's demands, the company you work for, Lufthansa, may go into administration.
I'll let you worry about that for now and we'll see if you would still be waving the Lufthansa flag then.
An agreement about the bail-out should have been made by last week, then this week,and now they're talking about tomorrow.
Spohr is playing with fire. I don't see Merkel abandoning LH, but I wouldn't be shocked if she lets it go into insolvency before taking the big steps, and I'm not sure Spohr will still be in the picture.

As for SN, if they follow my suggestion, get 3 billions from the Belgian government to rebuild a proper airline like Italy is doing with Alitalia, it will be most of all at the expense of AF and KLM, and they're gonna ${(*% their pants. KLM and AF have taken advantage of SN's weakness all this time, sucking trains full of passengers originating in ZYR and ZWE to their hubs. That would end and even reverse.
Now its passengers from Paris, Lille, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Breda flowing into BRU.
Flowers and fish will transit through BRU rather than AMS.
Belgium has a lot to say about Thalys and Eurostar. If Belgium says so, these trains would all have to stop in BRU. Either that or no trains for nobody and SN bombards CDG and AMS with flight over flight.

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Flanker2 wrote: 10 May 2020, 21:35As for SN, if they follow my suggestion, get 3 billions from the Belgian government to rebuild a proper airline like Italy is doing with Alitalia, it will be most of all at the expense of AF and KLM, and they're gonna ${(*% their pants. KLM and AF have taken advantage of SN's weakness all this time, sucking trains full of passengers originating in ZYR and ZWE to their hubs. That would end and even reverse.
Now its passengers from Paris, Lille, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Breda flowing into BRU.
Flowers and fish will transit through BRU rather than AMS.
Belgium has a lot to say about Thalys and Eurostar. If Belgium says so, these trains would all have to stop in BRU. Either that or no trains for nobody and SN bombards CDG and AMS with flight over flight.
Anything close to this is only possible with way more than 3 billion for SN2 (KL is getting more than that while they were already profitable and have all the infrastructure in place), additional billions for infrastructure, cooperating unions and government policies favorable towards aviation. Thus not going to happen anytime soon.

Also most passengers from ZYR go to CDG and from ZWE to AMS so whatever the route is between Antwerp and Brussels isn't really relevant for AFKL.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

sean1982 wrote: 09 May 2020, 21:22 In the mean time, IAG and Etihad are on the hunt to take Vienna from LH. Which proves that even in corona times business is going on and airlines are looking towards the future. Also puts the whole “no one else is interested in BRU”-story in the bin.

https://www.aerotelegraph.com/en/iag-w ... -lufthansa
Not exactly great news for VIE:
British Airways’ parent company IAG has already stationed an airline at Vienna International Airport in the form of the low-cost carrier Level Europe. It should therefore be relatively easy to expand with long-haul jets
So turning VIE in a low cost airport? When an anouncement of SQ about BRU was expected back in autumn, peope on this forum weren't very enthousiastic of having Scoot at BRU until SQ anounced the real deal would be flying to BRU. It's like LH absorbing SN into EW and have them take over BRU with short haul and long haul flights.

And what could EY do accept having a couple of flights a day from VIE to AUH?

No airline (group) will set up an entirely new airline in these challenging times.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

If SN survives, wouldn't there be possibilities to take market share from KL and AF at their overseas territories? On some flights both airlines have a near monopoly, so prices must be pretty high. With BRU being idealy located in between AMS and CDG it might present some opportunities.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Flanker2 »

Jetter wrote: 10 May 2020, 23:50
Flanker2 wrote: 10 May 2020, 21:35As for SN, if they follow my suggestion, get 3 billions from the Belgian government to rebuild a proper airline like Italy is doing with Alitalia, it will be most of all at the expense of AF and KLM, and they're gonna ${(*% their pants. KLM and AF have taken advantage of SN's weakness all this time, sucking trains full of passengers originating in ZYR and ZWE to their hubs. That would end and even reverse.
Now its passengers from Paris, Lille, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Breda flowing into BRU.
Flowers and fish will transit through BRU rather than AMS.
Belgium has a lot to say about Thalys and Eurostar. If Belgium says so, these trains would all have to stop in BRU. Either that or no trains for nobody and SN bombards CDG and AMS with flight over flight.
Anything close to this is only possible with way more than 3 billion for SN2 (KL is getting more than that while they were already profitable and have all the infrastructure in place), additional billions for infrastructure, cooperating unions and government policies favorable towards aviation. Thus not going to happen anytime soon.

Also most passengers from ZYR go to CDG and from ZWE to AMS so whatever the route is between Antwerp and Brussels isn't really relevant for AFKL.
Yes unlikely to happen, but I'm laying out what should happen.
If it doesn't happen, we are facing another 20 years of endless discussions about small meaningless things that SN should do to stay afloat.
"ah, we had our chance in 2020 but we missed it".
Endless discussions about raising salaries by 4% over 2 years or not, wetleasing aircraft or not, becoming Eurowings or some other Lufthansa low-cost clone, etc...


3 Billions is plenty enough IMO if it comes as a capital injection.
If Germany is allowed to inject 6 Billions in a profitable airline, Belgium should be allowed to inject 3 Billions in a marginally profitable airline.

This is the moment for Belgium aviation, which is dying if you haven't noticed.

Thomas Cook Belgium > Dead
VLM > Dead
SN > Becoming Eurowings
TUI Belgium > Alive but who knows after this?


By the way, TUI Belgium also has its place in all of this and so do Air Belgium which has already received state funds.

The 3 Billion is just for SN, Belgium (as most countries) actually has much bigger problem in its entire inbound and outbound travel industry. Hotel and travel agencies are going broke as we speak, even the ones with deep pockets.


I think that people don't realise yet that this crisis can bring most countries and businesses to their knees.
What we see with hasty reopenings is an economic panic of business owners and politicians. Most consumers will stay home for a while and spend as little as possible.
The same way they were reluctant to shut everything down, they are reopening prematurely and causing damage on our economies and a recovery by burning money.
Most businesses can't make money with 50% less sales, if anything, they will bleed faster.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boavida »

Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 10:43 If SN survives, wouldn't there be possibilities to take market share from KL and AF at their overseas territories? On some flights both airlines have a near monopoly, so prices must be pretty high. With BRU being idealy located in between AMS and CDG it might present some opportunities.
Part of the problem is, I'm afraid, our Belgian 'fatalist' mentality.

Flanker2 described it quite well:
Flanker2 wrote: 10 May 2020, 21:21 To be self-sustaining, an airline needs a "Yes we can and yes we will" attitude.
Not a "maybe, if we try, we might, but I don't know" attitude.
We need more 'patriotism' in business and above all: more audacity. Like the Dutch have. Only last week PostNL announced they'll open a big distribution center in Belgium, right under the nose of Bpost. Can you imagine the opposite? We sold Fortis to the French, Delhaize to the Dutch. We let it happen like it's nothing.

I agree we must remain realistic when it comes to aviation. BRU is sandwiched between Europe's biggest hubs, but a bit more audacity wouldn't hurt. Like the motto of the special forces: who dares wins. Every crisis is an opportunity.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by b.lufthansa »

Special conciliary meeting with unions tomorrow!!

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Bracebrace »

Boavida wrote: 11 May 2020, 11:24 We need more 'patriotism' in business and above all: more audacity.
Unfortunately not.

We are small, we need to be smart. But we aren't.
We are not big in Africa. We rely on history and keep using our colonialism to preted we are big. At this point, even the Chinese might be bigger in Africa.
Small should be flexible. We aren't.
Small should respond to changes quickly. We don't.

Everything wrong that happens is a result of us comparing to bigger countries and think we need the same treatment. We don't. Every single time somewhere someone has to bring up the Sabena-DAT-blablabla Africa history.

Forget it. Change. Adapt.

Controversial? Maybe. But it's better to think we are small than compare ourselves to companies like AF/KLM/Lufthansa/British Airways. We are not. Far from.

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by oldblueeyes »

Bracebrace wrote: 11 May 2020, 15:52 Controversial? Maybe. But it's better to think we are small than compare ourselves to companies like AF/KLM/Lufthansa/British Airways. We are not. Far from.
Your observation is right. But it would bring people outside of their comfort zone.

There are several success stories outside of the big guys - but they are linked to realistic approaches, unpleasant decisions and sometimes risk assumptions. Hybris cut is not a comfort zone for the patriotic opinion, unpleasant decisions not for some employee groups and risks are nothing for average managers.

Three examples to benchmark:

Aer Lingus:
- profit machine, even in IAG
- they were forced rapidely to bring costs down , with Ryanair next door to them from the beginning of the ULCC journey
- gave up turboprop and peanuts operations, focusing on bigger things
- no alliance hybris, their product is lighter to please more budget driven demand or benchmarks
- no big dreams of hubbing in a continental remote area - instead focusing on their niches -> a lot if Irish origin population in the US and business demand for their low corporate tax country

Air Baltic
- at the end of the day, serving 3 countries with 8 mio population
- understood that their market is economically in the budget area and that they have a lot of working migrants to serve as core demand
- high courage to order C-Series at a time of high uncertainity of the product -> but rewarded with excdllent pricing and perfect timing to the market for having a state of the art aircraft model in a spot that is going to be in temrns of cost unpleasant for the other products in the market

Finnair
- also acting in a niche, with the other 3 Nordic states allied in SAS
-focused only on what they can serve with a kind of competitive advantage -> also in marketing terms -"North Route" to Asia and business needs for their community - no dreaming to feed any small town to their hub

Success is not always about size, but about creating a competitive advantage in a certain niche where the overall parameters would be hard to achieve for others. At least Lingus and Air Baltic are acting by offering product that is from one side to low for most classic legacies, to complicated for typical LCC's.

Another example is Volotea - focusing as well with smaller planes serving decentral leisure routes on spots outside the scope of the aircraft sizes the ULCC need and between cities not covered by other bases.

Thus, the question fr the future is not to catch the AF/KLM customer -> which won't be a bargain since the scalability of economics for a small player are more difficult than for a larger one, but finding the right nihe to have an economically feasable business model.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by JOVAN »

Belgian politicians will never understand the airline business. Nor the importance it has for our country's economy, independence and future.

Most of our strategic companies are in hands of foreign shareholders and holdings.

Energy, airport, harbours etc are essential and should by all means kept under our own supervision AND our own ownership.
Engie, LH, the Toronto teachers , BNP Parbas, ING etc see our country only as a milking cow.

Hundreds of millions flow yearly to foreign owners.

Remember the Eandis story, where a bunch of local Flemish politicians was trying to sell a highly essential and benefit-making enterprise to the Chines (China Grid). That showed how stupid and backward our politicians are.

With almost 300 BILLION EURO SAVINGS that Belgians have on their saving account, bringing only mini interests, one could imagine that National Investment Fund that makes all our INDUSTRIAL JEWELS again property of Belgian Citizens. A successful airline could be part of this strategy.

A National Fund that guarantees 2,5 to 3% interest (with growth perspective), woud be very attractive for millions of hard working Belgium's, who now have rather no interest than playing on the CasinoStockExchange.

Now is the moment.
Everybody is suffering, and maybe the very big ones suffer the most.

Could be a good time for small and medium size players like SN to make a giant step.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

JOVAN wrote: 11 May 2020, 18:37 Belgian politicians will never understand the airline business. Nor the importance it has for our country's economy, independence and future.

Most of our strategic companies are in hands of foreign shareholders and holdings.

Energy, airport, harbours etc are essential and should by all means kept under our own supervision AND our own ownership.
Engie, LH, the Toronto teachers , BNP Parbas, ING etc see our country only as a milking cow.

Hundreds of millions flow yearly to foreign owners.

Remember the Eandis story, where a bunch of local Flemish politicians was trying to sell a highly essential and benefit-making enterprise to the Chines (China Grid). That showed how stupid and backward our politicians are.

With almost 300 BILLION EURO SAVINGS that Belgians have on their saving account, bringing only mini interests, one could imagine that National Investment Fund that makes all our INDUSTRIAL JEWELS again property of Belgian Citizens. A successful airline could be part of this strategy.

A National Fund that guarantees 2,5 to 3% interest (with growth perspective), woud be very attractive for millions of hard working Belgium's, who now have rather no interest than playing on the CasinoStockExchange.

Now is the moment.
Everybody is suffering, and maybe the very big ones suffer the most.

Could be a good time for small and medium size players like SN to make a giant step.
Thank you Jovan and other members having such positive reaction.


We are small, indeed, and better understand and accept this. But that doesn’t mean being incapable.

Dinosaurs were big and probably thought “the skies will clear up soon and we’ll be back to normal”. Small mammals seized the opportunity and took the lead.
Remember the old marketing cliché : Opportunities are often disguised as a threat. One such opportunity may be going aggressively after the African potential.

Drop the old price-driven approach for the moment. Those who will / have to travel in the coming months will be interested in flying in safe conditions. Paying a 25-50% premium against guaranteed unoccupied seat next to you may be attractive. High LF are not for tomorrow anyhow and families may continue being seated next to each other. And you can take 10 tonnes extra cargo if you fly with 100 empty seats.
Jet fuel is now (hedging aside) at half the price paid 20 years ago it should be doable, no?

Maybe an opportunity to further develop based on the good reputation that SN built in western Africa during the Ebola crisis. And go after other destinations. BKO is an AF monopoly and a return was put at +2000EUR before the crisis. Maybe also NIM as a bilateral could be obtained thanks to the strong Belgian support to Niger military.

Agreed with Jovan, Boavida and other members that more audacity is needed. Belgium is the country of the Solvay, Nagelmackers, Bekaert, Janssen, Empain and so many others. Where are their descendants today?

But true, that was before we fell into that crazy “Sillyconomy” and nobody today has the guts of an entrepreneur with long-term vision. Only next quarter results now count, to please the shareholders.

H.A.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

This evening, La Libre Belgique is writing (behind a paywall) about the negotiations between the Belgian Government and Lufthansa, with tomorrow's SN works council meeting as background (which could see hundreds of job cancelled)

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... T=70942260

In brief:

1. Spohr might come to Brussels on Wednesday, the day after the Works Council, to discuss a bridge loan with the Belgian government. Money is needed before the end of the week. But Belgium doesn't trust Spohr (we remember the dirty trick to acquire the last 55% for almost nothing, and the Eurowings catastrophe) and prefers to enter into the capital of SN Airholding. Spohr refuses (also for Germany and Austria).

2. To counter Spohr, Belgian ministers are discussing with German and Austrian ones about a common policy towards Spohr, considered as arrogant.

3. Spohr is not happy that Gustin is a special advisor to the Belgian government. Those two cannot see each other. But everyone wants SN to remain in the LH Group, although SN should get newer planes, like SWISS.

4. It is expected that SN will become 25% smaller, thus hundreds of jobs could disappear.

5. Spohr wants to get rid of expensive night stops, but Brussels Airport considers them as essential for long-haul connectivity.

6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

oldblueeyes wrote: 11 May 2020, 17:16 Thus, the question fr the future is not to catch the AF/KLM customer -> which won't be a bargain since the scalability of economics for a small player are more difficult than for a larger one, but finding the right nihe to have an economically feasable business model.
Why not offer clients an alternative to AF and KL on the flights to their overseas territories? Since they have a near monopoly on some of these routes, prices will be at the higher end. Not to push AF/KLM out of the market since for obvious reasons that's impossible but to make money where money can be made. And BRU is nicely in the middle of CDG and AMS and imho way more convenient then at least AMS (I've never flown from CDG).

As an airline you cannot forever rely on the same 17 African destinations, especially not since more and more airlines are finding their way to the continent.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Conti764 »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:38 6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
SN's A330's are not that old anymore since the A330 rollover, I assume?

And I can't imagine replacing the A330's one on one since they'll need a couple to fly to Africa (cargo)...

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:45
oldblueeyes wrote: 11 May 2020, 17:16 Thus, the question fr the future is not to catch the AF/KLM customer -> which won't be a bargain since the scalability of economics for a small player are more difficult than for a larger one, but finding the right nihe to have an economically feasable business model.
Why not offer clients an alternative to AF and KL on the flights to their overseas territories? Since they have a near monopoly on some of these routes, prices will be at the higher end.
KL doesn’t have a monopoly to any overseas territory: TUI flies everywhere in the Caribbean.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by JOVAN »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:38 This evening, La Libre Belgique is writing (behind a paywall) about the negotiations between the Belgian Government and Lufthansa, with tomorrow's SN works council meeting as background (which could see hundreds of job cancelled)

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... T=70942260

In brief:

1. Spohr might come to Brussels on Wednesday, the day after the Works Council, to discuss a bridge loan with the Belgian government. Money is needed before the end of the week. But Belgium doesn't trust Spohr (we remember the dirty trick to acquire the last 55% for almost nothing, and the Eurowings catastrophe) and prefers to enter into the capital of SN Airholding. Spohr refuses (also for Germany and Austria).
==> indeed, we do not forget this, we do not forgive this /i]

2. To counter Spohr, Belgian ministers are discussing with German and Austrian ones about a common policy towards Spohr, considered as arrogant.
===> if Spohr gets trouble with Merkel, guess who will be OUT .

3. Spohr is not happy that Gustin is a special advisor to the Belgian government. Those two cannot see each other. But everyone wants SN to remain in the LH Group, although SN should get newer planes, like SWISS.
===> good to see BG back

4. It is expected that SN will become 25% smaller, thus hundreds of jobs could disappear.
===> very sad, but cannot be avoided I am afraid, too bad

5. Spohr wants to get rid of expensive night stops, but Brussels Airport considers them as essential for long-haul connectivity.
===> hotels are also crazy about empty rooms, good time for negotiation;
be happy with a Novotel or so


6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
===> Airbus, Boeing are bleeding , thousands of new planes will be avaiable from other bankrupt companies, time for a good negotiation


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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

Conti764 wrote: 11 May 2020, 22:02
sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:38 6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
SN's A330's are not that old anymore since the A330 rollover, I assume?

And I can't imagine replacing the A330's one on one since they'll need a couple to fly to Africa (cargo)...
To The States and Canada can be. Air Transat also flew already the A321LR to BRU.

And maybe certain African countries with less cargo can use the A321. More direct flights instead of triangle

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Atlantis »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2020, 21:38 This evening, La Libre Belgique is writing (behind a paywall) about the negotiations between the Belgian Government and Lufthansa, with tomorrow's SN works council meeting as background (which could see hundreds of job cancelled)

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... T=70942260

In brief:

1. Spohr might come to Brussels on Wednesday, the day after the Works Council, to discuss a bridge loan with the Belgian government. Money is needed before the end of the week. But Belgium doesn't trust Spohr (we remember the dirty trick to acquire the last 55% for almost nothing, and the Eurowings catastrophe) and prefers to enter into the capital of SN Airholding. Spohr refuses (also for Germany and Austria).

2. To counter Spohr, Belgian ministers are discussing with German and Austrian ones about a common policy towards Spohr, considered as arrogant.

3. Spohr is not happy that Gustin is a special advisor to the Belgian government. Those two cannot see each other. But everyone wants SN to remain in the LH Group, although SN should get newer planes, like SWISS.

4. It is expected that SN will become 25% smaller, thus hundreds of jobs could disappear.

5. Spohr wants to get rid of expensive night stops, but Brussels Airport considers them as essential for long-haul connectivity.

6. Fleet: SN would go to an all A320 medium-haul fleet. For long-haul, the old A330s might be replaced by smaller less-polluting A321LRs to satisfy the green requirements.
Regarding point 2. Well maybe is the right time to dismiss Spohr. Being arrogant and bringing business in danger is not the right person on the right place. EW was a disaster, brought SN in danger with the failed integration and lost time a money for SN and the own LH staff was striking many time under him. If he still continue to be stubborn, he could bring the whole group in danger. High time to bring normal people on the top who will bring clear communication and stability in the group.

Regarding point 4. SN will be no exception in lay off staff. This is hard and difficult time but to survive it has to be. I hope the unions will also understand this and not playing cat/mouse now

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

The article in Le Soir, and the comments here, are bad signs. Someone mentionned on this forum "we have stupid politicians". Maybe. But what's happening here, is far worse: it's revenge and rancor (rancune) by people who are supposed to be aviation professionals and/or aviation geeks and/or responsible ministers. If it's all true what Le Soir writes, then Bernard Gustin and Alexander De Croo are putting thousands of jobs at jeopardy "to counter Spohr". And they get applause here. Sad. Really sad.

Le Soir writes - and others confirm - that Gustin wants revenge for his dismissal - and "Belgium" wants revenge "because Lufthansa got 55% for almost nothing". Sad. Really sad. And what is even worse: it's not even true. Gustin didn't leave empty handed, and Lufthansa didn't buy the 55% for 2,6M. Lufthansa bought the 55% for 82,6M or 102,6M. To the 2,6M, one must add the amount of cumulated loss at the take over moment. Debts that the old management was unable to pay, and for which Lufthansa officially signed "we will pay that debt to the creditors".

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