Brussels Airlines in 2020

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 854
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 22 Jan 2020, 00:23

Still nothing concrete regarding the reboot plan ?

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 854
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 22 Jan 2020, 00:28

Still no hope in sight regarding a possible NH / SN codeshare on the BRU- TYO route ?

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 854
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 22 Jan 2020, 00:30

Do they still consider the possibility of a rebranding ?

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 314
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer » 22 Jan 2020, 02:45

I m quite suprised to see so many (suprising) reactions about removing paper press.

Air France planned to removed paper newspapers , from early 2010s. But they have canceled projects, due to the pressure, from.....French national newspapers publishers. Air France was the first airline, in the world to provide digital newspapers on Ipad and smartphones, in 2013.

You can read a French article (2012) https://translate.google.fr/translate?h ... _3234.html

"However, the press is a significant budget. According to our information, the purchases of newspapers and magazines enter for nearly 10 million euros in its accounts, to which are added nearly 5 million euros of logistics to deliver the titles in all its planes and its living rooms."

The publishers' response was immediate: there was no question of removing the paper copies. Air France is indeed the first press buyer in France. The company acquires between 18 and 20 million daily newspapers each year. Its purchases can represent up to 14% of paid circulation for certain newspapers.

These are "sales by third parties", which do not bring anything to publishers. The newspapers charge the company a certain amount, which in turn invoices "boarding costs" of an equivalent amount.

But this dissemination is essential for the press. First because it is counted by the OJD, the body that certifies the circulation of newspapers. Second, because it affects customers who often have high incomes."

At Paris CDG, some airlines from North America and Asia, don't provide newspapers at the boarding. Probably it's still the case on board, for biz class, when doors are close, or either in the lounges. But no paper newspapers, for eco class. When i work with airlines that still providing newspapers, at the bording, choice is not big. Most of time, l'Equipe, Le Figaro and Le Monde (quite hard for socialists and communists, not Liberation and l'Humanité :mrgreen: )

If you are lucky, you can have also English and Chinese newspapers, but most of time, it's for the 1st and biz class. And often there are newspapers left at the end of boarding (from the "small" A320 to the big Boeing 777-300ER)

People now use Ipad, e-readers, laptops. It's a common sight to see at airports a family of 5, with 3 ipads, 2 laptops and one e-readers.

People should be more worried about the facial recognition system which starts to be used in aviation and all informations, that they have on the their phone, via all apps that they download

User avatar
BrightCedars
Posts: 824
Joined: 01 Sep 2005, 00:00
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by BrightCedars » 22 Jan 2020, 09:43

MEA still offers printed press first in C and then down the aisle in Y, there are options in Arabic, English and French. It does seem like something from past ages but I enjoy grabbing one once in a while.
Still I wouldn't miss it and would be happy if I could just download a copy off the aircraft wi-fi if there was one.

Ansett
Posts: 455
Joined: 13 Apr 2016, 19:12

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Ansett » 22 Jan 2020, 12:37

Forgive me, I fail to understand the free newspaper discussion. Most airlines offer you to download a newspaper (when you check in, I think°. I always forget. As too paper newspaper, honestly, today there is not enough space in Y class to comfortably read a paper newspaper. And again, if somebody wants a newspaper on board, the best option remains to buy one at the airport where you will (usually) have a good choice.
Airlines make us pay for nearly everything today. Look at the last "near-suicidale" move by SN not to offer free catering anymore in the expensive Flex&Fast cabin.

Besides, forgive me again, but I think there are more important issues on the table at the moment (the survival of SN).

PttU
Posts: 337
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 15:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by PttU » 22 Jan 2020, 16:15

Ansett wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 12:37
Forgive me, I fail to understand the free newspaper discussion. Most airlines offer you to download a newspaper (when you check in, I think°. I always forget. As too paper newspaper, honestly, today there is not enough space in Y class to comfortably read a paper newspaper. And again, if somebody wants a newspaper on board, the best option remains to buy one at the airport where you will (usually) have a good choice.
Airlines make us pay for nearly everything today. Look at the last "near-suicidale" move by SN not to offer free catering anymore in the expensive Flex&Fast cabin.

Besides, forgive me again, but I think there are more important issues on the table at the moment (the survival of SN).
I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1304
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boeing767copilot » 22 Jan 2020, 16:40

In this discussion it is important to know that since a few years the newspaper publishers have been paying themselves to SN to offer their titles on board.
Maybe the publishers themselves pulled the plug.

Poiu
Posts: 684
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu » 22 Jan 2020, 17:54

PttU wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 16:15
I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.
That is exactly what SN has been trying over the last 5 years....
Unfortunately the only way to keep LCCs out of their backyard was flying with a negative profit margin and their financial situation is to weak to put enough resilience in their long haul business travel model.

Passenger
Posts: 6476
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger » 22 Jan 2020, 20:13

Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 22:55
It’s not the employers choice, employers are forced to respect the Renault law as soon as they make 30 people redundant in a 60 day period. The Renault law protects the employees and is quite costly for the employer. Only the future will tell us how many, if any, people are made redundant. If SN is not going to make employees redundant there is no need to be afraid of the Renault law. Banning a union from the negotiations would be unnecessary in that case.
You can't give another interpretation to "ontslag/licenciement" then what that is: the employer dismisses an employee - the employer gives them notice that their labour contract ends.

Employees who end their employment for retirement and/or employees who leave voluntary, are not counted. It's even marked as exception in the law.

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 314
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer » 22 Jan 2020, 20:44

I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.
In France some majors newspapers are not longer available in paper version. Only on Digital version:

France Soir and La Tribune.

Poiu
Posts: 684
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu » 22 Jan 2020, 21:06

Passenger wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:13
Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 22:55
It’s not the employers choice, employers are forced to respect the Renault law as soon as they make 30 people redundant in a 60 day period. The Renault law protects the employees and is quite costly for the employer. Only the future will tell us how many, if any, people are made redundant. If SN is not going to make employees redundant there is no need to be afraid of the Renault law. Banning a union from the negotiations would be unnecessary in that case.
You can't give another interpretation to "ontslag/licenciement" then what that is: the employer dismisses an employee - the employer gives them notice that their labour contract ends.

Employees who end their employment for retirement and/or employees who leave voluntary, are not counted. It's even marked as exception in the law.
Dismissal, the situation in which an employer officially makes someone leave their job, is too general as often dismissal is when the employee underperforms or made serious mistakes.
The law Renault is only applicable in case of redundancy, the state of being no longer in employment because there is no more work available.
The non continuation of temporary contracts and contractors needs to be INCLUDED in the redundancy numbers on condition the concerned employee has been working in the company for at least one year. (As far as I understand this is one of the disagreements between the union and management)
Last edited by Poiu on 22 Jan 2020, 21:27, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1692
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba » 22 Jan 2020, 21:08

rwandan-flyer wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 20:44
I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.
In France some majors newspapers are not longer available in paper version. Only on Digital version:

France Soir and La Tribune.
France soir disappeared well before the digital newspaper became popular in 2006 and went up and down till 2012.
It reappeared in 2016 has a digital newspaper but this us not a good example.

La Tribune is still on paper once a week and has the same problem,it was already a newspaper that was in financial trouble since the 90s.

No healthy newspaper is going only digital!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
Posts: 6476
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger » 22 Jan 2020, 21:50

Just wondering: does all that "no printed newspaper onboard? What a stupid airline!" theory also applies for Finnair and for KLM, who have abondonned printed newspapers long before Brussels Airlines? Or is it a clever decision from Finnair and KLM, and a stupid decision from Brussels Airlines?

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1692
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lumumba » 22 Jan 2020, 23:19

Passenger wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 21:50
Just wondering: does all that "no printed newspaper onboard? What a stupid airline!" theory also applies for Finnair and for KLM, who have abondonned printed newspapers long before Brussels Airlines? Or is it a clever decision from Finnair and KLM, and a stupid decision from Brussels Airlines?
Don't forget KLM and Finnair has WiFi in there flight's Brussels Airlines not!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 36085
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 » 23 Jan 2020, 15:36

Count Etienne Davignon (87), co-Chairman of the Board of Brussels airlines, will remain a Director at the next General Assembly in April or May, but will hand over the co-chairmanship to Jan Smets, former governor of the National Bank of Belgium. The other co-Chairmanship could go to Christina Foerster.

https://www.lalibre.be/economie/entrepr ... 7c2195f833
André
ex Sabena #26567

Poiu
Posts: 684
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu » 23 Jan 2020, 15:49

sn26567 wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 15:36
Count Etienne Davignon (87), co-Chairman of the Board of Brussels airlines, will remain a Director at the next General Assembly in April or May, but will hand over the co-chairmanship to Jan Smets, former governor of the National Bank of Belgium. The other co-Chairmanship could go to Christina Foerster.
The 10%+ cost cutting clearly won’t be applicable to the board then, reminds me of another Belgian airline, twenty years ago, where the board was trying to force pilots to accept an important salary cut whilst, at the same time, the board paid themselves a nice bonus in a fiscal paradise...

https://www.apache.be/2014/02/05/de-mee ... an-sabena/

Inquirer
Posts: 2019
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Inquirer » 23 Jan 2020, 17:21

FWIW, it has been numerously reported in the past that boardmembers take no remuneration whatsoever... :roll:

Poiu
Posts: 684
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu » 23 Jan 2020, 18:49

Inquirer wrote:
23 Jan 2020, 17:21
FWIW, it has been numerously reported in the past that boardmembers take no remuneration whatsoever... :roll:
That is completely new to me, do you have a reference?
I know several members of different boards and not a single one is doing it for free, quite the opposite!
As an example: 20 years ago Mr D was paid 150000€ as member of the board of a Belgian bank.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 36085
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by sn26567 » 23 Jan 2020, 19:20

The annual report of SN Airholding shows indeed 0 euro for the board members (and 4,072 euros for the commissioners). But I'm sure 'passenger' can enlighten us on those figures.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Post Reply