Brussels Airlines in 2020

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
Poiu
Posts: 832
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Jetter wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 02:26
What they're basically saying is that not hiring new staff equals collective layoffs, it's preposterous! They made themselves irrelevant with such an extremist stance
Not correct, what they are actually saying is: deciding to lay off 50 people, every month during 20 consecutive months should be considered as laying off 1000 people and the relevant laws should be taken into account.

Jetter
Posts: 474
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 07:43
Jetter wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 02:26
What they're basically saying is that not hiring new staff equals collective layoffs, it's preposterous! They made themselves irrelevant with such an extremist stance
Not correct, what they are actually saying is: deciding to lay off 50 people, every month during 20 consecutive months should be considered as laying off 1000 people and the relevant laws should be taken into account.
How many people are getting fired? :?

Poiu
Posts: 832
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Jetter wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:27
How many people are getting fired? :?
The law Renault is applicable as soon as 30 people are made redundant (not fired) in any 60 day period.
As for the total, that is still inside knowledge for the moment, but if you want to reduce costs by 10% or more it could be a significant number.

Passenger
Posts: 6780
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:41
Jetter wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:27
How many people are getting fired? :?
The law Renault is applicable as soon as 30 people are made redundant (not fired) in any 60 day period.
Nope. De Wet/Loi Renault is not "when 30 people are made reduntant". The Wet Renault / Loi Renault is "when the employer wants to activate collectief ontslag / licenciement collectif" (collective dismissal). It seems that no one will be fired, dismissed, sent away.

Let's put things straight. The ACV/CSC demands "Wet Renualt / Loi Renault" for 3 reasons:

1. When the Wet Renault applies, the Ondernemingsraad / Conseil d'Enterprise is activated, giving the trade unions a lot of power and participation in the company's management that they otherwise don't have.

2. When the Wet Renault applies, those leaving the company will benefit a dismissal fee (for 4 months, and the amount apparently is the difference between their reference salary and their unemployment perspective (even when they find a job elsewehere)).

3. Spierballengerol. With the social elections in May 2020, calling for Wet Renault / Loi Renault" is an excellent opportunity for candidates to show their electorate "hey, look how I defend your rights. Thus vote for me please".

Jetter
Posts: 474
Joined: 06 Nov 2015, 21:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Jetter »

Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:41
Jetter wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:27
How many people are getting fired? :?
The law Renault is applicable as soon as 30 people are made redundant (not fired) in any 60 day period.
As for the total, that is still inside knowledge for the moment, but if you want to reduce costs by 10% or more it could be a significant number.
Let's see what ACV says about that: https://www.hetacv.be/mijn-loopbaan/wer ... ef-ontslag Even the ACV communication department can't agree with their extremist delegates at Brussels Airlines. :lol:

A321Lufthansa
Posts: 27
Joined: 20 Jun 2019, 00:24

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by A321Lufthansa »

Looks like SmurfJet is over?
Airbus A320 -214 1838 OO-SND Brusssels Airlines ferried 21jan20 BRU-OSR for paint nto? ex D-ALTJ

User avatar
Airbus330lover
Posts: 814
Joined: 21 Jul 2005, 00:00
Location: Rixensart

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Airbus330lover »

She fly LHR-BRU for the moment

lucas
Posts: 175
Joined: 01 Feb 2017, 15:06

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by lucas »

A321Lufthansa wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 12:58
Looks like SmurfJet is over?
Airbus A320 -214 1838 OO-SND Brusssels Airlines ferried 21jan20 BRU-OSR for paint nto? ex D-ALTJ
Wasn't Rackham leaving the fleet as first one?

TLspotting
Posts: 2355
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel,BE
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

A321Lufthansa wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 12:58
Looks like SmurfJet is over?
Airbus A320 -214 1838 OO-SND Brusssels Airlines ferried 21jan20 BRU-OSR for paint nto? ex D-ALTJ
It can be maintenance... The livery is to stay until 2023 according to SN's website.
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Poiu
Posts: 832
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

Passenger wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 10:09
Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 09:41
The law Renault is applicable as soon as 30 people are made redundant (not fired) in any 60 day period.
Nope. De Wet/Loi Renault is not "when 30 people are made reduntant". The Wet Renault / Loi Renault is "when the employer wants to activate collectief ontslag / licenciement collectif" (collective dismissal).

It’s not the employers choice, employers are forced to respect the Renault law as soon as they make 30 people redundant in a 60 day period. The Renault law protects the employees and is quite costly for the employer. Only the future will tell us how many, if any, people are made redundant. If SN is not going to make employees redundant there is no need to be afraid of the Renault law. Banning a union from the negotiations would be unnecessary in that case.

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 877
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Still nothing concrete regarding the reboot plan ?

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 877
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Still no hope in sight regarding a possible NH / SN codeshare on the BRU- TYO route ?

brusselsairlinesfan
Posts: 877
Joined: 29 Mar 2007, 14:44

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Do they still consider the possibility of a rebranding ?

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 409
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

I m quite suprised to see so many (suprising) reactions about removing paper press.

Air France planned to removed paper newspapers , from early 2010s. But they have canceled projects, due to the pressure, from.....French national newspapers publishers. Air France was the first airline, in the world to provide digital newspapers on Ipad and smartphones, in 2013.

You can read a French article (2012) https://translate.google.fr/translate?h ... _3234.html

"However, the press is a significant budget. According to our information, the purchases of newspapers and magazines enter for nearly 10 million euros in its accounts, to which are added nearly 5 million euros of logistics to deliver the titles in all its planes and its living rooms."

The publishers' response was immediate: there was no question of removing the paper copies. Air France is indeed the first press buyer in France. The company acquires between 18 and 20 million daily newspapers each year. Its purchases can represent up to 14% of paid circulation for certain newspapers.

These are "sales by third parties", which do not bring anything to publishers. The newspapers charge the company a certain amount, which in turn invoices "boarding costs" of an equivalent amount.

But this dissemination is essential for the press. First because it is counted by the OJD, the body that certifies the circulation of newspapers. Second, because it affects customers who often have high incomes."

At Paris CDG, some airlines from North America and Asia, don't provide newspapers at the boarding. Probably it's still the case on board, for biz class, when doors are close, or either in the lounges. But no paper newspapers, for eco class. When i work with airlines that still providing newspapers, at the bording, choice is not big. Most of time, l'Equipe, Le Figaro and Le Monde (quite hard for socialists and communists, not Liberation and l'Humanité :mrgreen: )

If you are lucky, you can have also English and Chinese newspapers, but most of time, it's for the 1st and biz class. And often there are newspapers left at the end of boarding (from the "small" A320 to the big Boeing 777-300ER)

People now use Ipad, e-readers, laptops. It's a common sight to see at airports a family of 5, with 3 ipads, 2 laptops and one e-readers.

People should be more worried about the facial recognition system which starts to be used in aviation and all informations, that they have on the their phone, via all apps that they download

User avatar
BrightCedars
Posts: 827
Joined: 01 Sep 2005, 00:00
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by BrightCedars »

MEA still offers printed press first in C and then down the aisle in Y, there are options in Arabic, English and French. It does seem like something from past ages but I enjoy grabbing one once in a while.
Still I wouldn't miss it and would be happy if I could just download a copy off the aircraft wi-fi if there was one.

PttU
Posts: 374
Joined: 24 Nov 2015, 15:07

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by PttU »

Ansett wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 12:37
Forgive me, I fail to understand the free newspaper discussion. Most airlines offer you to download a newspaper (when you check in, I think°. I always forget. As too paper newspaper, honestly, today there is not enough space in Y class to comfortably read a paper newspaper. And again, if somebody wants a newspaper on board, the best option remains to buy one at the airport where you will (usually) have a good choice.
Airlines make us pay for nearly everything today. Look at the last "near-suicidale" move by SN not to offer free catering anymore in the expensive Flex&Fast cabin.

Besides, forgive me again, but I think there are more important issues on the table at the moment (the survival of SN).
I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1306
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Boeing767copilot »

In this discussion it is important to know that since a few years the newspaper publishers have been paying themselves to SN to offer their titles on board.
Maybe the publishers themselves pulled the plug.

Poiu
Posts: 832
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Poiu »

PttU wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 16:15
I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.
That is exactly what SN has been trying over the last 5 years....
Unfortunately the only way to keep LCCs out of their backyard was flying with a negative profit margin and their financial situation is to weak to put enough resilience in their long haul business travel model.

Passenger
Posts: 6780
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Poiu wrote:
21 Jan 2020, 22:55
It’s not the employers choice, employers are forced to respect the Renault law as soon as they make 30 people redundant in a 60 day period. The Renault law protects the employees and is quite costly for the employer. Only the future will tell us how many, if any, people are made redundant. If SN is not going to make employees redundant there is no need to be afraid of the Renault law. Banning a union from the negotiations would be unnecessary in that case.
You can't give another interpretation to "ontslag/licenciement" then what that is: the employer dismisses an employee - the employer gives them notice that their labour contract ends.

Employees who end their employment for retirement and/or employees who leave voluntary, are not counted. It's even marked as exception in the law.

rwandan-flyer
Posts: 409
Joined: 19 Dec 2010, 12:30

Re: Brussels Airlines in 2020

Post by rwandan-flyer »

I think the survival of SN and attracting enough customers to make them survive relies on two types of customers:
First, the economy travellers, where profitability is achieved by numbers: not making a lot of money on a single ticket, but all together they cover the costs. There, I don't see a problem in dropping the newspaper: most of these travellers compare SN to the "real" LCC, and decide easily on price.
Second, there's the business traveller, the SN-addicts, the people seeing the journey as the experience. For them, the service matters, and they're willing to pay for it. To those travellers, the offer of a free paper newspaper can be a part of the experience they want. This is not the majority of the travellers, but the premium the pay per ticket can make it profitable for SN. As I see it: investing in the extra service so SN can ask a higher price should not be neglected.
In France some majors newspapers are not longer available in paper version. Only on Digital version:

France Soir and La Tribune.

Post Reply