TUI fly Belgium in 2020

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UJspotting
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by UJspotting »

TLspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:24
Just read via UJspotting that TUI is going to lease some aircraft to operate flights during S20.

Wait what ?
Information via Google Flights. Everything is subject to change in these uncertain times...

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

UJspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:39
TLspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:24
Just read via UJspotting that TUI is going to lease some aircraft to operate flights during S20.

Wait what ?
Information via Google Flights. Everything is subject to change in these uncertain times...
Indeed. I don't see why TUI fly Belgium would lease foreign aircraft when they cannot even fly their own aircraft.
André
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UJspotting
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Joined: 20 Oct 2018, 15:28

Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by UJspotting »

sn26567 wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:43
UJspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:39
TLspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:24
Just read via UJspotting that TUI is going to lease some aircraft to operate flights during S20.

Wait what ?
Information via Google Flights. Everything is subject to change in these uncertain times...
Indeed. I don't see why TUI fly Belgium would lease foreign aircraft when they cannot even fly their own aircraft.
Nothing is certain in these times... We'll see what the future brings.

UJspotting
Posts: 25
Joined: 20 Oct 2018, 15:28

Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by UJspotting »

UJspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:46
sn26567 wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:43
UJspotting wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:39


Information via Google Flights. Everything is subject to change in these uncertain times...
Indeed. I don't see why TUI fly Belgium would lease foreign aircraft when they cannot even fly their own aircraft.
Nothing is certain in these times... We'll see what the future brings.
Update: this is data that was added in 'Google flights' before the Coronavirus outbreak. This data from 'Google flights' is incorrect. My apologies!

737MAX
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

How can you make plans while nobody knows what will be allowed, when, and which countries will eventually accept tourists?

Stop spreading nonsense, please.

Bralo20
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Bralo20 »

737MAX wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:56
How can you make plans while nobody knows what will be allowed, when, and which countries will eventually accept tourists?

Stop spreading nonsense, please.
In normal times JAF would indeed be leasing other planes as they do so virtually every year and on top of that they have the MAX issue which (imho) won't be flying anytime soon. But due to covid-19 we all can expect that plans have changed and most likely no planes will be leased since travelling outside Belgium for non-necessary trips (as are holidays) are not allowed and probably won't be allowed in the upcoming weeks (since in this case it takes at least 2 parties (Belgium and the other country, it's one thing to open Belgium for non-necessary travel but if no other country is opening their borders for foreigners you still can't go anywhere).

737MAX
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

Bralo20 wrote:
02 May 2020, 01:19
737MAX wrote:
01 May 2020, 20:56
How can you make plans while nobody knows what will be allowed, when, and which countries will eventually accept tourists?

Stop spreading nonsense, please.
In normal times JAF would indeed be leasing other planes as they do so virtually every year and on top of that they have the MAX issue which (imho) won't be flying anytime soon. But due to covid-19 we all can expect that plans have changed and most likely no planes will be leased since travelling outside Belgium for non-necessary trips (as are holidays) are not allowed and probably won't be allowed in the upcoming weeks (since in this case it takes at least 2 parties (Belgium and the other country, it's one thing to open Belgium for non-necessary travel but if no other country is opening their borders for foreigners you still can't go anywhere).
Yes, that is what I meant... obviously.

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

Passenger wrote:
22 Apr 2020, 22:18
Both TUI Airlines Belgium and touroperator TUI Belgium (and a few other TUI companies) have published their annual account 01/10/2018 -> 30/09/2019.

For TUI Airlines Belgium, the grounding of its 737 MAX fleet is shown in the result: 2018-2019 has a € 74,5M loss on a € 823M turnover. Own assets are now negative € 31M, with a reported loss (overgedragen verlies) of € 37,7M.

TUI explains that the 737MAX debackle has lead to more expensive external leases, with a higher fuel cost and a higher cost for EU-Rule 261/2004 (cost for 261/2004 = € 5,5M).

Luckily for TUI Airlines Belgium, TUI Belgium shows a huge € + 320M own assets, with € 251M reported profit.
My above “...Luckily for TUI Airlines Belgium…” was too optimistic. The annual accounts from both TUI Airlines and TUI Belgium show that a large part of their liquidity (from both) was transferred to / parked at the TUI AG cashpool in Germany.

On a sidenote: it is legal to send the surplus in cash to the foreign head office, whilst keeping them as “liquidity” in your own books. But it might be dangerous when things turn bad. The money that Thomas Cook Belgium had sent to the THC cashpool in the U.K., led directly to the bankruptcy of the Belgian THC entity. Remember the Belgian curatoren/curateurs are investigating a final cash transfer from € 5M from Belgium to the U.K., just two weeks before the bankruptcy.

Another problem for TUI Airlines (and TUI Belgium) is that the dossier “state support for Brussels Airlines” seems to confirm that German companies are not allowed to use German KfW state aid for their foreign entities - contrary thus to previously stated here.

I have read that TUI Airlines Belgium asked € 250M state aid. Is there any news about that? Is there conformation that TUI Germany may use their KfW loan for Belgium too? Is that €250M including or excluding the Belgian cash drain to Germany?

sdbelgium
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sdbelgium »

OO-LOE departed this morning around 09.00 as JAF8951 to CAY/SOCA (Cayenne).

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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

sdbelgium wrote:
04 May 2020, 12:13
OO-LOE departed this morning around 09.00 as JAF8951 to CAY/SOCA (Cayenne).
Pax or cargo (pepper :lol: ) ?
André
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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

TUIfly Belgium plans to operate the Lille – Fez route from 10 November 2020 with a Boeing 737-800.
André
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sn26567
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by sn26567 »

TUIfly Belgium plans a seasonal Liege – Oujda route from 11 June 2020 with A320.

TUIfly Maroc (usually operating with TUIfly Belgium aircraft) intends to operate Agadir – Toulouse service on 15 June 2020 with B737-800. The carrier will also offer Agadir – Bordeaux – Toulouse – Agadir triangle routing from 02 July 2020.
André
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PttU
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by PttU »

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20200508_0495 ... te-crashen

It's behind a paywall, but some interesting answers:
TUI fly vliegt officieel opnieuw vanaf 8 juni. “Maar die datum gaan we niet halen, omdat we na een goedkeuring van de Nationale Veiligheidsraad enkele weken tijd nodig hebben om onze vliegtuigen klaar te maken. Volgende week zullen we een latere startdatum aankondigen”, zegt woordvoerder Piet Demeyere.
Officially the re-start date of TUI is June 3rd, but that will be postponed as they need to prepare the planes after the approval of the safety council. A later startdate will be announced next week.
A quote right after that, so I assume it's also by Piet Demeyere:
“Het is nog niet duidelijk of we deze zomer kunnen vliegen. Maar er komen wel openingen. Wij vliegen vanop Deurne naar Split in Kroatië. Dat land heeft al aangekondigd dat het deze zomer graag toeristen wil ontvangen. We vliegen vanop Deurne ook naar de Balearen en de Canarische Eilanden in Spanje. Die streken zijn minder hard getroffen dan bijvoorbeeld Valencia en Madrid. Ik kan me dus voorstellen dat de Spaanse overheid een opdeling zal maken van regio’s waar vakantiegangers zijn toegelaten en waar niet.”
Flying to the Canary Islands from Antwerp? Seems like a far stretch... Have they flown there from ANR before?
“We gaan geen warm eten meer serveren”, zegt Sarah Saucin, woordvoerder van TUI fly. “Bij de aankoop van een vliegtuigticket zullen klanten wel een lunchpakket kunnen bestellen. Dat moet bij de boeking meteen worden betaald. Het voorverpakte eten wordt dan op de vlucht uitgedeeld.
No more buy on board, but order a lunchbox while making the reservation.
TUI, de Duitse moedermaatschappij van TUI fly, heeft van de Duitse staatsbank KfW een staatslening van 1,8 miljard euro gekregen om de coronacrisis door te komen. “Er wordt nu bekeken welk deel van dat geld aan TUI fly in België wordt besteed”, zegt Sarah Saucin, ook woordvoerder van TUI fly.
TUI has received support from the German government (through KfW), they're looking what part can be used by TUI fly Belgium. Quite contradictory to the statements of KfW that German support should only benefit German companies.

TLspotting
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by TLspotting »

PttU wrote:
09 May 2020, 10:13
“Het is nog niet duidelijk of we deze zomer kunnen vliegen. Maar er komen wel openingen. Wij vliegen vanop Deurne naar Split in Kroatië. Dat land heeft al aangekondigd dat het deze zomer graag toeristen wil ontvangen. We vliegen vanop Deurne ook naar de Balearen en de Canarische Eilanden in Spanje. Die streken zijn minder hard getroffen dan bijvoorbeeld Valencia en Madrid. Ik kan me dus voorstellen dat de Spaanse overheid een opdeling zal maken van regio’s waar vakantiegangers zijn toegelaten en waar niet.”
Flying to the Canary Islands from Antwerp? Seems like a far stretch... Have they flown there from ANR before?
The old Air Belgium perhaps ?
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

PttU wrote:
09 May 2020, 10:13
https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20200508_0495 ... te-crashen
...
TUI, de Duitse moedermaatschappij van TUI fly, heeft van de Duitse staatsbank KfW een staatslening van 1,8 miljard euro gekregen om de coronacrisis door te komen. “Er wordt nu bekeken welk deel van dat geld aan TUI fly in België wordt besteed”, zegt Sarah Saucin, ook woordvoerder van TUI fly.
TUI has received support from the German government (through KfW), they're looking what part can be used by TUI fly Belgium. Quite contradictory to the statements of KfW that German support should only benefit German companies.
Actually, "...It is now being examined what part of that money is spent on TUI fly in Belgium..." (cfr TUI in GVA.be) means that it's far from certain yet that TUI Belgium will receive German state aid. And KfW is quite firm on its website: "no funding for foreign projects by German companies or their subsidiaries based abroad" - see:
https://www.kfw.de/inlandsfoerderung/Un ... %28855%29/

What could be in favour for TUI Belgium to get German state aid after all, is that a large part of the Belgian cash reserves was sent to the German cashpool.

737MAX
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

PttU wrote:
09 May 2020, 10:13

Flying to the Canary Islands from Antwerp? Seems like a far stretch... Have they flown there from ANR before?


No. It's impossible with the E190, but the E2 could make it.
TUI has received support from the German government (through KfW), they're looking what part can be used by TUI fly Belgium. Quite contradictory to the statements of KfW that German support should only benefit German companies.
Since the first announcement of TUI AG about this state aid weeks ago, divisions within the TUI group were advised TUI AG would decide who gets which part of the package.

Matt
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Matt »

I tought the b737-700 was allowed to operate from Antwerp, no ?

that one should make it to the Canary islands

737MAX
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by 737MAX »

Matt wrote:
11 May 2020, 12:50
I tought the b737-700 was allowed to operate from Antwerp, no ?

that one should make it to the Canary islands
Not straight to the Canary Islands with full pax from ANR.
No way.

flightlover
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by flightlover »

737MAX wrote:
11 May 2020, 13:01
Matt wrote:
11 May 2020, 12:50
I tought the b737-700 was allowed to operate from Antwerp, no ?

that one should make it to the Canary islands
Not straight to the Canary Islands with full pax from ANR.
No way.
And fully packed "corona style" (one out of 3 seats empty)?

Passenger
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Re: TUI fly Belgium in 2020

Post by Passenger »

TUI Airlines Belgium will get aid from TUI Germany after all. Not because KfW makes an exception, but because a bankruptcy of TUI Airlines would cost "Germany" a lot more cash.

TUI Airlines Belgium has just reported a terrible (financial) year: a loss of 74.559.513 €, resulting in a negative own assets of 31.164.000 € and a cumulated loss of 37.764.000 €. Only reason for this drama: the 737-MAX disaster. TUI explains it in its published annual account: "...Wij hadden 4 toestellen in onze vloot en dit tekort moest opgevangen worden door extra inhuur. Naast deze substantiële kost (huurkost + hoger fuelverbruik ten opzichte van de MAX) werden we ook geplaagd door meer denied boarding compensations en dit als gevolg van een mindere operationele performance door een aantal lease-in carriers. Tenslotte werd ook een spare toestel ingezet om de MAX problematiek op te lossen wat ook tot een hogere DBC kost geleid heeft/ De gestegen capaciteit heeft aanleiding gegeven tot lagere yield op het seat only product... Bovenstaande elementen hebben ons resultaat negatief beihvloed voor meer dan 70 mio euro..." My translation, in brief: the replacement for our four 737-MAX aircraft has lead to higher lease + more fuel costs + more denied boarding compensations + one extra lease.

That's no reason off course for KfW to change its mind. What is relevant for them however, is what TUI Airlines also says: "...Aangezien een belangrijk deel van de cash positie zich bevindt op de interne TUI AG Group cashpool..." My translation: a substantial part of our liquidity is parked at the internal TUI AG Group's cashpool.

With TUI AG (Germany) itself in severe distress, they need every penny now. Belgian state aid however is unlikely when there is still company money parked on a foreign bank account. But if TUI Airlines Belgium would go bankrupt, the (Belgian) curator/curateur will demand full refund of the (Belgian) money that is parked in Germany. I can only guess how much that is, but it's most probably a lot more then what TUI Airlines Belgium now asks. Hence: reason enough for Mutti to be friendly.

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