Air Antwerp in 2019

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luchtzak
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by luchtzak » 20 May 2019, 10:24

Air Antwerp on Twitter, already two followers: https://twitter.com/AirAntwerp

lucas
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by lucas » 20 May 2019, 12:48

https://www.upinthesky.nl/2019/05/20/kl ... OcZY-cPVNE

In this article, it is stated that Air Antwerp will not operate it's own scheduled flights. "Air Antwerp will fly for other airlines, via wetlease, blockspace of charter, out of Antwerp."
But that seems strange to me, as it was also announced that it would commence scheduled flights to LCY. Maybe they will be operated by Air Antwerp for Cityjet? Time will tell.

Furthermore, there is said that the airline will test some routes, so they can see what niche-markets are interesting, and new markets for bigger airlines. The article there is also mentioned that Air Antwerp is established to serve KLM.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by PttU » 20 May 2019, 14:45

Some small, yet significant differences:
  • "Wel dat de maatschappij toestellen met een capaciteit van vijftig tot tachtig stoelen zal exploiteren. “Zoals de Fokker 50.”" => They'll be flying aircraft like the Fokker 50. So possibly ATR, but the Avro's and Embraers of CityJet and KLM are also "50 to 80" seats.
  • They've got their maths right: "Zij brachten een startkapitaal samen van 61.500 euro, waarvan één derde door KLM en de overige twee derden door CityJet dat zijn hoofdzetel heeft in Dublin." as stated by Travel Magazine is incorrect: it's indeed 1/4 KLM, 3/4 CityJet: so more CityJet, less KLM
In this article, it is stated that Air Antwerp will not operate it's own scheduled flights. "Air Antwerp will fly for other airlines, via wetlease, blockspace of charter, out of Antwerp."
But that seems strange to me, as it was also announced that it would commence scheduled flights to LCY. Maybe they will be operated by Air Antwerp for Cityjet? Time will tell.

Furthermore, there is said that the airline will test some routes, so they can see what niche-markets are interesting, and new markets for bigger airlines. The article there is also mentioned that Air Antwerp is established to serve KLM.
Also an interesting line in the foundational act: ‘het belang te dienen van Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij … en haar groep.’: Air Antwerp has as objective to serve the purpose of KLM and its group. Maybe that's just a standard line, meaning they won't be competing against their shareholder.
Maybe it's indeed to test routes before incorporating them into the KLM network, some kind of "KLM Antwerphopper", but it's still strange to have those operations at ANR...

Doing charters etc: so competition for VizionAir at ANR?

No official reply or communication from Air Antwerp for AV24.be yet?

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by TLspotting » 20 May 2019, 16:45

I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Boavida » 21 May 2019, 16:56

From the article:
De vergunning is er nog niet en op korte termijn zal volgens mij ook moeten geïnvesteerd worden in andere vliegtuigen dan de Fokker 50.
A220 maybe ?

Image

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by TLspotting » 21 May 2019, 18:02

With money coming from KLM & CityJet?
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by PttU » 22 May 2019, 07:08

A220-100 has over 100 seats, around the same as an Embraer 190/195 or Avro which KLM and CityJet do have. But let them take it step by step: first filling up a plane with around 50 passengers, and then scaling up.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by TLspotting » 22 May 2019, 08:17

The E170 has a capacity of 66 passengers.
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Poiu » 22 May 2019, 09:18

TLspotting wrote:
22 May 2019, 08:17
The E170 has a capacity of 66 passengers.
80 pax max.
https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/defaul ... 122011.pdf

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by lucas » 27 May 2019, 23:42

Since 20th of May they also have a Facebook page. Until now, one week later, they only have three likes. One of that is mine. Doesn't seem to be a lot.

To feed speculations about the type of airctaft: their photo shows a F50.

EDIT: their siti www.airantwerp.com is currently under construction.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by SLM » 05 Jun 2019, 07:36

Any more news about Air Antwerp? Thanks!

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by sn26567 » 05 Jun 2019, 12:20

SLM wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 07:36
Any more news about Air Antwerp? Thanks!
A brand-new article behind a paywall: https://luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/cate ... ir-antwerp
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Boeing767copilot » 05 Jun 2019, 15:45

SLM wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 07:36
Any more news about Air Antwerp? Thanks!
A new Belgian joke, according to the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/363 ... -belgenmop

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by sn26567 » 05 Jun 2019, 16:01

Boeing767copilot wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 15:45
SLM wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 07:36
Any more news about Air Antwerp? Thanks!
A new Belgian joke, according to the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf:

https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/363 ... -belgenmop
Dead-serious KLM participating in a Belgian joke? Not in their habits!
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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Passenger » 05 Jun 2019, 21:42

sn26567 wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 16:01
Boeing767copilot wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 15:45
A new Belgian joke, according to the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/363 ... -belgenmop
Dead-serious KLM participating in a Belgian joke? Not in their habits!
Niets is wat het lijkt, als je maar goed kijkt (Cees Crone, 1914-1951).

Don’t focus on the title from that article (“Air Antwerp is a Belgian joke”). Read the article: apart from the first phrase, it’s not about Air Antwerp but about KLM versus Air France. The title has been chosen, just to attract Dutch readers.

Don’t focus on “with one F50”. That was indeed what KLM told Travel Magazine (B). But in a few Dutch interviews, KLM said “with a 50-70 seater, like a F50”.

Don’t focus on KLM only. Actually, at this moment, ownership is KLM 1/4th and Cityjet 3/4th.

Their plans? No idea, but could well become more then just Antwerp-London City.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 05 Jun 2019, 21:50

Also, this newspaper has a rather poor reputation, as I understand from a couple of Dutch forums that I frequent. We will have to wait and see. My biggest fear is that the customer base for ANR-LCY (mainly bankers and diamond traders) will have switched to other means of transport, and will not lightly come back. ANR-LCY must be the first and main business for any ANR-based business airline, even if other routes can and should be considered.

My other fear is CityJet: they have already ruined this service in the past - it went only downhill ever since CityJet stopped hiring VLM planes - would they have learned from their past errors?

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Passenger » 06 Jun 2019, 10:01

jan_olieslagers wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 21:50
Also, this newspaper has a rather poor reputation, as I understand from a couple of Dutch forums that I frequent.
De Telegraaf is the largest newspaper in the Netherlands: it has a daily circulation of 370.000 newspapers and 5,3 mio unique online visitors each month. You can't realize that with a rather poor reputation.

Yteke de Jong, the editor of that article about Air Antwerp, is a graded auditor and a graded accountant. She has almost 20 years of experience as journalist, most of it for aviation matters. What she wrote about Air Antwerp is correct: at this moment, we don't know their investment plan...

Yteke de Jong also wrote: ...Air Antwerp looks like a defensive investment to keep away the Lufthansa Group... We only know what/why/how once KLM and CityJet announce their plans.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by Jetter » 06 Jun 2019, 13:34

Passenger wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 10:01
jan_olieslagers wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 21:50
Also, this newspaper has a rather poor reputation, as I understand from a couple of Dutch forums that I frequent.
De Telegraaf is the largest newspaper in the Netherlands: it has a daily circulation of 370.000 newspapers and 5,3 mio unique online visitors each month. You can't realize that with a rather poor reputation.

Yteke de Jong, the editor of that article about Air Antwerp, is a graded auditor and a graded accountant. She has almost 20 years of experience as journalist, most of it for aviation matters. What she wrote about Air Antwerp is correct: at this moment, we don't know their investment plan...

Yteke de Jong also wrote: ...Air Antwerp looks like a defensive investment to keep away the Lufthansa Group... We only know what/why/how once KLM and CityJet announce their plans.
You know that The Daily Mail is the best visited English news website? :roll: High viewership doesn’t always translate to quality reporting and good reputation, this is true for The Netherlands and many other countries.

While I didn’t read this article, Yteke de Jong is the worst aviation journalist of The Netherlands. Just look at her past articles and notice how often her ‘confidential sources’ provided misinformation and how wrong her analysis have been.

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by saratoga » 06 Jun 2019, 16:16

jan_olieslagers wrote:
05 Jun 2019, 21:50
My biggest fear is that the customer base for ANR-LCY (mainly bankers and diamond traders) will have switched to other means of transport, and will not lightly come back. ANR-LCY must be the first and main business for any ANR-based business airline, even if other routes can and should be considered.
I agree 100% with that. Ppl who used to fly with VLM to LCY already found other solutions in the mean time and are used to those. Why changing again if it works, unless, the new operation in ANR is stable like hell and reliable like a foundation of a house. Nobody wants to change if that company is going to get tits up in a few months time. There is a challenging task for those new owners of Air Antwerp in attracting customers and providing quality and sustainability. Luckily it is not me. ;)

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Re: Air Antwerp, a new airline from Deurne ?

Post by PttU » 06 Jun 2019, 16:59

saratoga wrote:
06 Jun 2019, 16:16
I agree 100% with that. Ppl who used to fly with VLM to LCY already found other solutions in the mean time and are used to those.
3,5 to 4 hours by train?
And for travellers from Antwerp, going to the city centre of London, travelling through BRU and LHR takes more time than the ANR-LCY flights too. So those other solutions have their cons too ;)

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