Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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mvg
Posts: 137
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

On one hand the Walloon government invests millions in projects* that will only be beneficial for Skeyes and on the other hand they have to bring Skeyes to court to try to have a guarantee of continuity of its services.

*One example among others: https://www.aviation24.be/air-traffic-c ... r-in-2024/

Continuity of services will never be guaranteed as long as they don't choose another service provider. But that won't happen either, for political reasons...


By the way, I read here that temporary unemployment was not applicable to controllers because they are civil servants... But civil servants cannot/do not want to guarantee a service continuity? Civil servants want to be able to strike legally any time they feel like? Where is the logic here?

In the meantime, while some people are struggling with the little 1000€ help from the governement, some civil servants are relaxing at home, working only a few days per month, without losing a single euro from their huge salary, absolutely sure that they will never lose their jobs and their striking rights...
In the meantime, the State (in other words the tax payers) is going to have to put money in that company because it has lost its income, but not reduced its expenses...
In the meantime, pilots are making huge efforts with salary cuts, stressing about their jobs and some even lost it.
But yes, sorry, we are not at the same level... Some are civil servants, others are "just" workers...

mvg
Posts: 137
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

737MAX wrote: 12 May 2020, 19:28
mvg wrote: 12 May 2020, 18:36
In the meantime, while some people are struggling with the little 1000€ help from the governement, some civil servants are relaxing at home, working only a few days per month, without losing a single euro from their huge salary, absolutely sure that they will never lose their jobs and their striking rights...
In the meantime, the State (in other words the tax payers) is going to have to put money in that company because it has lost its income, but not reduced its expenses...
In the meantime, pilots are making huge efforts with salary cuts, stressing about their jobs and some even lost it.
But yes, sorry, we are not at the same level... Some are civil servants, others are "just" workers...
I get your point and completely agree with it, but who is to blame here?
ATCO's? If we were ATCO's, we'd probably not ask ourselves to cut our salary by 50% if we didn't have to ;-)

Pilots? Yes, those who lost their jobs now are in deep sh****, but those in *some* major airlines like Air France, KLM etc still get their 100% salary too. That still exists. There are extreme inequalities there too.
My point isn't that they should not ask themselves for a salary cut. If they are lucky enough to avoid it, that's good for them.

My point it that, because they are so protected, so well paid and their working conditions are so far above anyone else in this country:

1) they should agree to provide a minimum service at all times. They are civil servants, aren't they? For example, the French controllers must provide a minimum service in case of strike. People have enough of their wild strikes, even more if you know their working conditions. Funny how they like to compare themselves to other countries only when it suits them...
Several times, i mentioned that they have the best "work-salary-conditions package" of the world: no stress and no salary cut in the current situation is the perfect example. And the State (the taxpayers) will pay if the company is in trouble, like each time it was in the past! Mind the word "pay", not "borrow" money like they want to do for SN.

2) they should stop complaining about silly things: everyone is working hard at some point in his/her career. Pilots are not an exception to that, are they?

3) they should not be selfish and look a bit at the rest of the world before daring to complain.
Their work wasn't really difficult before the crisis, was it? We already talked about the amount of time on position, the low traffic levels in Brussels compared to major hubs in Europe. How is it going to be for the next 2 or 3 years after this crisis? A piece of cake!

About your example, you are right. But Air France (KLM is slightly different) is probably one of the last companies that gives pilots such privileges like nowhere else in the world.
Skeyes is doing the same with the controllers, and even more. It is one of the last workplace where controllers are so much protected, so well paid and so untouchables.
I challenge anyone to find another company in the world paying so much, working so little and with a better (or even similar) employee's protection.

SR20
Posts: 496
Joined: 17 Apr 2017, 09:14

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 »

Anger is booming among Skeyes staff. Social peace can no longer be respected. The chances of new staff actions are “very high,”

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/ni ... gle.com%2F

https://bx1.be/news/la-colere-gronde-pa ... personnel/

nordikcam
Posts: 1070
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by nordikcam »

It is an autonomous public enterprise which more or less fulfills its reason for being towards the public ... they have gone mad Sir, in its particular circumstances ... Should we not entrust this mission to the Dutch, French or Germans. And close Skeyes.

Sonho1985
Posts: 58
Joined: 27 Mar 2014, 16:06

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Sonho1985 »

nordikcam wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 14:27 It is an autonomous public enterprise which more or less fulfills its reason for being towards the public ... they have gone mad Sir, in its particular circumstances ... Should we not entrust this mission to the Dutch, French or Germans. And close Skeyes.
Their monopoly should be broken at least.

Couldn't it be an option te let military air traffic controllers take over their tasks when they strike, in order to guarantee the continuation of flights above Belgium?

nordikcam
Posts: 1070
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by nordikcam »

737MAX wrote: 10 Jun 2020, 09:42
nordikcam wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 14:27 It is an autonomous public enterprise which more or less fulfills its reason for being towards the public ... they have gone mad Sir, in its particular circumstances ... Should we not entrust this mission to the Dutch, French or Germans. And close Skeyes.
The French? Hell no, they strike even more often :cry:
Yeap...sorry ! Dutch or Germans ! :-)


mvg
Posts: 137
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

Prikklok/pointeuse has always been refused by the controllers (all other employees at Skeyes use it) because they are leaving early before the end of their shift. This has been said many times (and never denied).
If you work your hours, you can’t be upset with a prikklok...
Who, in 2020, gets paid 6000€ after tax without even being checked if he/she is present at work and for how long? 😂
Not even talking about their efficiency at work: no check! Make an aircraft fly 20 extra miles or wait 10 minutes on the ground because you don’t do your job properly or because you don’t want to make an effort: no problem, you are untouchable!

I agree that belgian skies should be opened to competitors but not the militaries. It’s not their job.
Competitors from other countries would easily provide a better service for a much cheaper price! They have tried to jump into the belgian game but they have been kicked out each time! Guess by who and why...

mvg
Posts: 137
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

Hi 737MAX,

To answer your questions:

Most of the time, one hour is not worked every shift. In some units (mostly in the regional airports), it can go up to 3 or 4 hours not worked for some shifts!
If we add up all the hours not worked each month, we are speaking about days not worked by each of them every month!

They NEVER work longer than scheduled. Never ever. It's easy.
Why? Because there are always several controllers coming to replace the persons who have finished their shifts. Even if one or two don't show up, there are still enough people to let go home those who have to. And in the worse case, let's say if nobody shows up (that never happened), they would rather close sectors (thus put flow restrictions) and let people go home than stay longer.
By the way, I am not criticising it at all: this system is in place to make sure that controllers are relieved from their duty after a certain amount of time and it has to be like that for many reasons (like for pilots, there are regulations in place). What is unbelievable is to refuse that your employer checks at what time you arrive and leave work...
In fact the management has had all the timings for many years but they cannot use the data. Each time an employee arrives at work he needs to use his/her badge to enter the secured site where they work so the timings are already recorded (like for the other employees of the company).

Which other nearby countries could provide a cheaper and better service? A few examples: DFS in London Gatwick, NATS in Spain or SERCO all over the world all provide ATC services where they happened to be cheaper than the national provider.
Their structures are much more efficient, their standards much much higher and their contracts are connected to today's aviation reality... In other words, controllers are paid for what they do, more if they work a busy position, less if their work is easier, rewarded according to their performance and so on.
And yes there is a big competition in some european countries like Spain and the UK. In other parts of the world as well. But some countries are doing everything to avoid competition like Belgium. The reason is easy to find: think about who runs that company...
Some foreign companies have tried to come into the belgian market not long ago but they have been kicked out in some very dishonest ways...
But that's another debate...

mvg
Posts: 137
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

https://www.aviation24.be/air-traffic-c ... -pandemic/

Do not thank us (the taxpayers). You are welcome :) Your sacrifices are leaving us speechless.

Now to the people who live in the real world: big thoughts to all those who:
- lost their jobs
- agreed on paycuts to save their colleagues
- had no choice than taking paycuts
Aviation will recover and be stronger!
Talk to you at their next strike ;)

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