Boeing767copilot wrote: ↑22 Apr 2019, 20:38
Has anyone noticed that the Belgian airspace remains open for three consecutive nights. An extra reimbursement for those who are working on Sunday and public holiday (Easter)?
I also notice that it is very quiet at the moment with our friends atco's on this forum.
Nothing against you personally, but if this kind of posts keep coming, I'm done reacting here, and then I go back to reading while shrugging slightly and rolling my eyes.
I reacted twice this afternoon and do have a social and a rather busy worklife apart from everything else.
In case you hadn't noticed, I prefer to answer in full and properly, not half-assed.
And to answer your other remark, which is exactly the biased attitude I came here to disagree on, they have started "claiming" atcos and are forcing them to take or swap shifts short notice.
We are one step away from getting police at our door on our off day to take us to work because they can't find anyone to do it voluntarily.
Reactions are either "they can't do that, that's not legal?!" or "it's about time, that's only logical".
Well, forcing anyone to accept a different shift one or few days in advance is not legal either, they don't care either, why would they stop there? just another issue to add to the pile.
And to the other reaction; Really? What kind of dictatorship are we living in?
In 'short' to the rest:
Hours of training and number of positions don't matter, our on the job training is counted in days and when I say 9 months, this is an average based on reality. (min number of days + vacation days + possible resit of one or two parts)
Maximum number of trainees simultaneously is also determined by a procedure (as is everything for that matter), and it is closer to 2 per unit than 2 per shift. EBBR has 2 per shift and this is not workable for the atcos.
I understand the seniority rule comes from older times, but there are colleagues who have been waiting for over 8 years to take this course because of this rule. Whose future career also depends on this because of other rules.
Without any guarantees or clear and transparent transition measures, suddenly implementing things like direct entry ab initios is not something you can do in a government owned company without changing your whole system while you're at it. This urge to implement this fast-fast is not well thought out and will bring more problems than it solves.
Once again, these attempted new ways of working won't change anything since there are plenty of atcos waiting eagerly in the towers to start this training. Honestly, we are not preventing extra trainings from happening in any way, would be a win-win-win-win (tower controllers waiting, canac, management and the general public)
May I point out the seniority rule is being discarded SINCE ex-controllers are in the management and not the other way around? This rule has been around since 1989 if I'm not mistaken.
And again, we are open to change, but not the way the CEO is attempting to implement it.
"I don't like this rule, so we will simply discard it and go to court with anyone who disagrees. While we are in court on the issue, it is not up for any discussion or negotiation. Meanwhile, we claim we do everything right, even though it's the opposite of how the rule has been followed for 28 years. And now that I see I may have taken it too far (in following this logic on multiple topics), I might give back part of the rules and rights you have had for 28 years -and longer- IF you accept all these other things that you are all against"
Everybody his job, I agree. But a CEO has an obligation to follow the rules and laws, not make his own and force them onto everybody. (to answer your question in short, he is a very stubborn man) The whole management has the obligation to put safety above their numbers, not to publicly claim safety is in their blood but constantly make questionable decisions on that topic.
And atcos have the duty to control air traffic. We do. Clearly not as much as our CEO and everybody needs, but way more than we are expected to do normally.
Once again, have you not noticed how in 2017-2018 we had these same issues, but there were no airspace closures and no strikes? We worked with what we had and made it work. But then the CEO started taking away peoples motivations and incentives to go this extra mile while still expecting all this extra work and effort. I'm afraid that doesn't work.
No we are not the boss and no we don't get what we want. We haven't in a long time and we will not this time either. But we refuse to be massively screwed over AGAIN.
If you can't understand that, honestly, we're done discussing.
I do wish to clear up a misunderstanding that seems to be widespread here.
We have a 35 hour workweek, but our roster (if we worked 5/7) puts us at work for 37,5 hours.
If you work 6/7 (lets say this is pretty much reality in canac), the roster puts you at work for 45 hours (!), every week, week in week out, for years straight already and years to come.
Are you honestly shocked SOME (not all) atcos decide to go home to eat with their families at the end of their shift instead of eating unpaid at work? When all positions are manned and there is no staff shortage?
Nobody will walk away from position or canac if there is a shortage, there is always a buffer.
This is a touchy issue and I will not go into it further, but I'm still surprised how many people are just drawn to these lightning rods that are thrown in the media to spark outrage amongst the public and stare themselves blind on it.
To the same guy, you think we did not increase our productivity?
Have a look at some press releases and figures of the last few years regarding the topic before you claim skeyes is not productive.
And yes, we are a big fan of a system with rules, where the rules are followed.
A maximum number of days, hours, consecutive shifts, ...
We have rights, a package, rules, laws forcing us and laws protecting us, advantages, ... but all of them are subject to the will of the management at the moment. We KNOW we will lose some things either way, but this situation is not workable.
So sure, free up the market, but do so responsibly under a window of European laws and rules (instead of guidelines that are discarded whenever somebody sees fit to do so)
As I stated before, roughly around 2/3 of the shift (the paid 7h) is work, 1/3 is off.
Clearance delivery is a non-licensed position and last I heard there are indeed waiting ab-initios doing shifts on this position after a short training. Does not solve a shortage in canac though.
Newly retired atcos either want to go home and retire or they sign up for a bit longer.
Sending them to a regional tower is a horrible idea as it requires retraining and it places them in an environment they are not or no longer used to. Wouldn't solve any shortage in canac either.
Am I claiming they can not work one shift normally anymore?
The days you are talking about had different views on safety, a smaller history of accidents and incidents (simply because aviation and safety evolved and the sector tries to learn from every incident or accident) and just in general a whole different mindset. The 'they' you are referring to was also more exception than rule. Either way, how focused do you think you will still be in your second consecutive shift? Or in the third?
Even when you avoid peak hours, this job requires constant attention.
There is a saying amongst controllers regarding safety and incidents; "you only need 2 aircrafts..."
Any moment can be the moment something goes wrong, peak or no peak, busy or calm environment (and calm moments are more dangerous for that matter)
What is the point in squeezing people out like lemons? Maximize your numbers? Reduce costs?
Force something down peoples throats and all you get back is what you forced down, nothing more.
This company can't provide the service it's meant to provide with 'nothing more'.
During multiple nightshifts this year I worked 4/5 hours straight, because it was needed.
What do you think will happen if they implement this ICAO rule and enforce it?
After two hours, some people will put their mic down and put their feet up for half an hour. And then there would be public outrage if that news came out too.
Honestly, who wins from this?
You need motivation, skill, passion, enthusiasm, but most of all; flexibility. Aviation is not a static or predictable sector.
Every rule they add, restricts one or both parties in their flexibility though, and that knife cuts on both sides.
That is the price of chasing absolute control. (something he does not realize yet, or something he is planning on dealing with by coming up with the most inclusive set of rules ever written. We're not sure which one it is.)