Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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Acid-drop
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Acid-drop »

We dont need to know !!
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Acid-drop
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Acid-drop »

Beautiful. Says enough about you.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Passenger
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Passenger »

Senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde is a moderate person and he doesn’t tweet “one-sided information”. He expresses what (almost) all other responsible parties in the whole aviation and travel industry think about these ongoing strikes: it’s scandalous.

You have surpassed a limit that is unacceptable, and that’s a shame for intelligent people with your responsabilty. You are voluntary causing financial damage to companies that have nu influence at all with your dispute. Just one example: for holiday package travel, all costs of the reroutings are for the airlines and/or touroperators. And when a hotel night is part of that rerouting: cost are for the airline and/or touroperator.

The reason for your load pressure is not because of mismanagement by the CEO, but because of your ongoing demand to get the full package of all your acquired rights - acquired as a result of previous strikes.

“…We have been listening for 5 years without being listened to…” is obviously just a cheap argument you use to justify your demands (given the already high salary, you most probably are now demanding additional compensations, days off, …).

You have a top level executive salary. There is a common sense in our business society that people with an income even less then yours, do not to count their working hours on a pharmacy balance. Even those executives with a labour contract don’t ask for compensation when they work more then 38 hours.

For the salary that the Belgian taxpayer offers you, the least you can do is to stop damaging those who have no influence at all: the airlines.

flightlover
Posts: 710
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 14:11 Senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde is a moderate person and he doesn’t tweet “one-sided information”. He expresses what (almost) all other responsible parties in the whole aviation and travel industry think about these ongoing strikes: it’s scandalous.

You have surpassed a limit that is unacceptable, and that’s a shame for intelligent people with your responsabilty. You are voluntary causing financial damage to companies that have nu influence at all with your dispute. Just one example: for holiday package travel, all costs of the reroutings are for the airlines and/or touroperators. And when a hotel night is part of that rerouting: cost are for the airline and/or touroperator.

The reason for your load pressure is not because of mismanagement by the CEO, but because of your ongoing demand to get the full package of all your acquired rights - acquired as a result of previous strikes.

“…We have been listening for 5 years without being listened to…” is obviously just a cheap argument you use to justify your demands (given the already high salary, you most probably are now demanding additional compensations, days off, …).

You have a top level executive salary. There is a common sense in our business society that people with an income even less then yours, do not to count their working hours on a pharmacy balance. Even those executives with a labour contract don’t ask for compensation when they work more then 38 hours.

For the salary that the Belgian taxpayer offers you, the least you can do is to stop damaging those who have no influence at all: the airlines.
And this is always the argument of those who stand with the management. Yes there is a nuisance for others but it is caused by mismanagement. It is not the only company that is suffering by this. It is a common thing in the airline industry these days. And the fact that there are so many strikes is just testament to that. Or better the result of the people working in the industry, doing more than agreed to when starting, and the management thinking the exceptional standard is the new norm that can be further 'improved' upon.

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luchtzak
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by luchtzak »

EBBU
West and North sectors regulated due to ATC staffing.
High delays.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

@Acid-drop: forums are for exchange of information, and for discussion. If you decline both - which is of course fully within your rights - then what is the use of posting?

@all: I think we all agree that the present situation must change, indeed has been what it is for far too long. It seems obvious that management and staff are unable to negotiate a way-out. Where is the strong hand that settles things for once and for good? WHERE IS THE GOVERNMENT? The present state of things is loosing us jobs jobs jobs!!! Mr. Prime Minister, if Bellot doesn't act then it is for you to do so!!!

TLspotting
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by TLspotting »

A1329/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLT/IV/NBO/E /045/245/5026N00544E064
A) EBBU B) 1904182330 C) 1904190230
E) BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS EAST LOW, EAST HIGH, HULDENBERG AND
LUXEMBOURG
CLSD DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 »

TLspotting wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 16:28 A1329/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLT/IV/NBO/E /045/245/5026N00544E064
A) EBBU B) 1904182330 C) 1904190230
E) BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS EAST LOW, EAST HIGH, HULDENBERG AND
LUXEMBOURG
CLSD DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED
And this one :

EBBR A1332/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/ATCH/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/5038N00533E
A) EBLG
B) 1904182330 1904190230
E) LIEGE TMA ONE, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE UPPER LIMITS RAISED TO
FL085. AVBL FOR TRAFFIC INBOUND AND OUTBOUND ONLY.

I guess the corridor between LGG and Germany will be activated tonight for the first time !

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lumumba
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 14:11 Senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde is a moderate person and he doesn’t tweet “one-sided information”. He expresses what (almost) all other responsible parties in the whole aviation and travel industry think about these ongoing strikes: it’s scandalous.

You have surpassed a limit that is unacceptable, and that’s a shame for intelligent people with your responsabilty. You are voluntary causing financial damage to companies that have nu influence at all with your dispute. Just one example: for holiday package travel, all costs of the reroutings are for the airlines and/or touroperators. And when a hotel night is part of that rerouting: cost are for the airline and/or touroperator.

The reason for your load pressure is not because of mismanagement by the CEO, but because of your ongoing demand to get the full package of all your acquired rights - acquired as a result of previous strikes.

“…We have been listening for 5 years without being listened to…” is obviously just a cheap argument you use to justify your demands (given the already high salary, you most probably are now demanding additional compensations, days off, …).

You have a top level executive salary. There is a common sense in our business society that people with an income even less then yours, do not to count their working hours on a pharmacy balance. Even those executives with a labour contract don’t ask for compensation when they work more then 38 hours.

For the salary that the Belgian taxpayer offers you, the least you can do is to stop damaging those who have no influence at all: the airlines.
Hey Passenger
Did you read what phoenixx wrote?
If yes are you ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS on the management side?

I think if you want to get out of this situation you have to listen to everybody.....

First I could not understand they way they where acting but after some reading and research I changed my mind.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Aerofool
Posts: 58
Joined: 25 Jul 2017, 17:46

Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Aerofool »

SR20 wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 17:12
TLspotting wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 16:28 A1329/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/QSCLT/IV/NBO/E /045/245/5026N00544E064
A) EBBU B) 1904182330 C) 1904190230
E) BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS EAST LOW, EAST HIGH, HULDENBERG AND
LUXEMBOURG
CLSD DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED
And this one :

EBBR A1332/19 NOTAMN
Q) EBBU/ATCH/IV/NBO/AE/000/999/5038N00533E
A) EBLG
B) 1904182330 1904190230
E) LIEGE TMA ONE, THREE, FOUR AND FIVE UPPER LIMITS RAISED TO
FL085. AVBL FOR TRAFFIC INBOUND AND OUTBOUND ONLY.

I guess the corridor between LGG and Germany will be activated tonight for the first time !

Indeed:
On website Eurocontrol:

"Service continuity EBLG during Brussels ACC staff shortage"

Due to staffing shortage Brussels ACC sectors EAST low, EAST high, Huldenberg and Luxembourg will not be available between 18th 23:30 UTC and 19th 02:30 UTC (NOTAM A1329/19).
In order to enable traffic in and outbound EBLG a "Service continuity procedure" has been activated in coordination between Brussels ACC and Langen ACC raising EBLG TMA ONE, THREE, FOUR and FIVE to FL085 (NOTAM A1332/19).
Available departure route from EBLG: LNO-M170-PODAT-KENUM-NVO at FL070
Available arrival route to EBLG: NVO-KENUM-PODAT-M170-LNO at FL080

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Boeing767copilot »

So, the Germans take over the work of the sick Belgian ATCO’s?

mvg
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Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 19:29 So, the Germans take over the work of the sick Belgian ATCO’s?
No it’s only a corridor that links Liege TMA with Germany, in other words Liege Approach will be connected to Germany bypassing Brussels ACC.
Traffic will be able to land and depart but a very reduced rate (less than 10 per hour).
Better than nothing...
Last edited by mvg on 18 Apr 2019, 20:27, edited 1 time in total.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Boeing767copilot »

mvg wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 20:18
Boeing767copilot wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 19:29 So, the Germans take over the work of the sick Belgian ATCO’s?
No it’s only a corridor that links Liege TMA with Germany, in other words Liege Approach will ne connected to Germany bypassing Brussels ACC.
Traffic will be able to land and depart but a very reduced rate (less than 10 per hour).
Better than nothing...
Now I understand, good for night activities at Liège Airport. Thanks mvg.

mvg
Posts: 139
Joined: 08 Jun 2017, 04:30

Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

lumumba wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 18:36
Passenger wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 14:11 Senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde is a moderate person and he doesn’t tweet “one-sided information”. He expresses what (almost) all other responsible parties in the whole aviation and travel industry think about these ongoing strikes: it’s scandalous.

You have surpassed a limit that is unacceptable, and that’s a shame for intelligent people with your responsabilty. You are voluntary causing financial damage to companies that have nu influence at all with your dispute. Just one example: for holiday package travel, all costs of the reroutings are for the airlines and/or touroperators. And when a hotel night is part of that rerouting: cost are for the airline and/or touroperator.

The reason for your load pressure is not because of mismanagement by the CEO, but because of your ongoing demand to get the full package of all your acquired rights - acquired as a result of previous strikes.

“…We have been listening for 5 years without being listened to…” is obviously just a cheap argument you use to justify your demands (given the already high salary, you most probably are now demanding additional compensations, days off, …).

You have a top level executive salary. There is a common sense in our business society that people with an income even less then yours, do not to count their working hours on a pharmacy balance. Even those executives with a labour contract don’t ask for compensation when they work more then 38 hours.

For the salary that the Belgian taxpayer offers you, the least you can do is to stop damaging those who have no influence at all: the airlines.
Hey Passenger
Did you read what phoenixx wrote?
If yes are you ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS on the management side?

I think if you want to get out of this situation you have to listen to everybody.....

First I could not understand they way they where acting but after some reading and research I changed my mind.
Hi Lumumba,
Please accept that people have different opinions. Passenger, myself and many others brought arguments and facts to defend our opinions. Phoenixx brought his arguments and you choose to believe him. This is your choice, we respect it but please respect ours to still have serious doubts. Mines do not come from RTL-TVI or from being always on the management’s side. If you read the posts you will notice that they come from deep inside the company, and also with a serious aviation background.
We also appreciate Phoenixx’s Point of view.
Cheers

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 19:29 So, the Germans take over the work of the sick Belgian ATCO’s?
No. Portion of airspace is delegated from Brussels ACC to Liege Approach enabling a direct coordination between Liege and Langen. German ATCO'S don't do anything more than usual (even less as traffic is regulated : max 6 mouvements an hour ! )

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

For those who wonder: "Langen" is the place where most German ATC services are centralised. Even some regional FIS (Bremen, I should think, and perhaps more?) were recently consolidated to Langen. Unexpectedly, there is no airport of Langen - the place is just to the South of Frankfurt (Main), North of the G/A airfield of Egelsbach. They offer several services over a vast area so they have a lot of frequencies.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Portion of airspace is delegated from Brussels ACC to Liege Approach
Must we then understand that, whereas Brussels ACC operates from Steenokkerzeel, Liege Approach is really at EBLG?

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lumumba
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Location: brussels Europe

Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by lumumba »

mvg wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 20:26
lumumba wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 18:36
Passenger wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 14:11 Senior aviation journalist Luk De Wilde is a moderate person and he doesn’t tweet “one-sided information”. He expresses what (almost) all other responsible parties in the whole aviation and travel industry think about these ongoing strikes: it’s scandalous.

You have surpassed a limit that is unacceptable, and that’s a shame for intelligent people with your responsabilty. You are voluntary causing financial damage to companies that have nu influence at all with your dispute. Just one example: for holiday package travel, all costs of the reroutings are for the airlines and/or touroperators. And when a hotel night is part of that rerouting: cost are for the airline and/or touroperator.

The reason for your load pressure is not because of mismanagement by the CEO, but because of your ongoing demand to get the full package of all your acquired rights - acquired as a result of previous strikes.

“…We have been listening for 5 years without being listened to…” is obviously just a cheap argument you use to justify your demands (given the already high salary, you most probably are now demanding additional compensations, days off, …).

You have a top level executive salary. There is a common sense in our business society that people with an income even less then yours, do not to count their working hours on a pharmacy balance. Even those executives with a labour contract don’t ask for compensation when they work more then 38 hours.

For the salary that the Belgian taxpayer offers you, the least you can do is to stop damaging those who have no influence at all: the airlines.
Hey Passenger
Did you read what phoenixx wrote?
If yes are you ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS on the management side?

I think if you want to get out of this situation you have to listen to everybody.....

First I could not understand they way they where acting but after some reading and research I changed my mind.
Hi Lumumba,
Please accept that people have different opinions. Passenger, myself and many others brought arguments and facts to defend our opinions. Phoenixx brought his arguments and you choose to believe him. This is your choice, we respect it but please respect ours to still have serious doubts. Mines do not come from RTL-TVI or from being always on the management’s side. If you read the posts you will notice that they come from deep inside the company, and also with a serious aviation background.
We also appreciate Phoenixx’s Point of view.
Cheers
Hey mvg
I don't think it's a question of believing but this are facts!
Regards
Hasta la victoria siempre.

SR20
Posts: 691
Joined: 17 Apr 2017, 09:14

Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 18 Apr 2019, 21:17
Portion of airspace is delegated from Brussels ACC to Liege Approach
Must we then understand that, whereas Brussels ACC operates from Steenokkerzeel, Liege Approach is really at EBLG?
Yes Liege Approach is operating from control tower at LGG !

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Ok, clear, thanks. A good thing that the consolidation is less advanced in BE, compared with the Germans!

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