Social actions at air navigation service provider skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

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jan_olieslagers
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Can anyone ping this guy on twitter or something ?
Cant journalist do their work ?
Myself am looking at parliament, rather. At least in theory, it is a task of the parliament to keep an eye on government.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

Parliament and all relevant ministers (European and belgian) have been addressed multiple times from the side of the air traffic controllers, to no avail. We are the requesting party in getting politics involved. We were asking party to get mediators Involved in social "dialogue" too.
Getting a bit tired of this constant smear campaign in the press and to be honest quite shocked from a lot of reactions here by aviation professionals and enthusiasts.

Boeing767copilot
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Phoenixx wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 14:47 Parliament and all relevant ministers (European and belgian) have been addressed multiple times from the side of the air traffic controllers, to no avail. We are the requesting party in getting politics involved. We were asking party to get mediators Involved in social "dialogue" too.
Getting a bit tired of this constant smear campaign in the press and to be honest quite shocked from a lot of reactions here by aviation professionals and enthusiasts.

Shocked? Who should be shocked? Come on guys. Go quickly to the doctor and ask for a new health certificate for so much suffering.
Belgian ATCO's, I will not and will not believe or understand them. Sick mentality in a modern and highly evolved company anno 2019.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 14:59
Phoenixx wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 14:47 Parliament and all relevant ministers (European and belgian) have been addressed multiple times from the side of the air traffic controllers, to no avail. We are the requesting party in getting politics involved. We were asking party to get mediators Involved in social "dialogue" too.
Getting a bit tired of this constant smear campaign in the press and to be honest quite shocked from a lot of reactions here by aviation professionals and enthusiasts.

Shocked? Who should be shocked? Come on guys. Go quickly to the doctor and ask for a new health certificate for so much suffering.
Belgian ATCO's, I will not and will not believe or understand them. Sick mentality in a modern and highly evolved company anno 2019.
There are currently less than 75 licensed atcos available for canac where they need 104 for a full team. That's 29 percent short.
In order to fix this shortage, those 75 would have to work 12.9 days out of 14 (instead of 5/7 like the rules say).
Thats not including Vacation days, parental leave, non ops services, ...
Are you starting to see why there is a constant staffing issue that can not been resolved?
Sick controllers are rostered in like all the rest (even if they are at home with a burnout for months), but who will replace them?
Everybody is either working already, or on one of their 4/5 days off per month. Nobody has any flexibility left for this management to give up the little bit of off days they have.
Standbys are all activated by default and there is simply no space in the rosters to implement a nightshift standby (because everyone is working already).
CEO tolerates these staffing issues by night lately because there is no way out left. All they can do is smear us in the media and blame it all on us to keep their hands clean.
They even gave a fake interview in le soir yesterday.

Let me ask you mr 767 copilot, how many days do you work in a row? 10 and more? Do you do this month in, month out for years straight?
No, because you have a maximum number of hours you're allowed to fly per year and a max number of days you can work straight. These Maxima should be exception, not rule.
Do you get in your flightdeck, flying hundreds of people when you know you're not fit enough to do so?

It's very easy to judge from a distance based on press releases, news articles and opinions and then curse the spoiled controller when you're not in the bloody mess for years already.

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lumumba
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by lumumba »

But why not sue Le Soir if that's a lie I hear what you are saying but I'm sure Le Soir is not laying and I'm sure you make big (to much) money....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

lumumba wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 15:24 But why not sue Le Soir if that's a lie I hear what you are saying but I'm sure Le Soir is not laying and I'm sure you make big (to much) money....
Sue le soir on what grounds?
Press has freedom to write whatever they want, no matter how wrong it is.
Le soir is lying:
- A nightshift in EBBR is worked with one licensed supervisor and 3 Atcos. (Not 6 like article says), we can easily prove this with the roster.
- we do not control only 20-30 aircraft from 22-08 local. Are you kidding me? Look at any figures, or count movements tonight on flightradar from 20 UTC tonight. You might make it to 20.30 on a call day and be above 20.
-Nobody works 6 nightshifts in a row and complains he has to work 12 days. in fact other newspapers had a look at canac rosters for march/april during the strike period and witnessed people getting series of 10-11-12 dayshifts in a row frequently.
- we do not work 3 hours per nightshift of 10h and chill for the rest of it, how would that even work if 2 Atcos have to be operational at any moment. We work 2/3 of our shift, same as day controllers and every controller in Europe for that matter, there are rules about this you know.
- yes we get an above average salary, like many People in aviation.
How much do captains earn?
No we do not net 15.000 per month (seriously, sign me up though)
Our salary before taxes is below 8000 euro and we are taxed at 50% Ish, I have never earned above 5000 net per month for a regular months work.
Not to complain at all, but we are at the bottom of the ladder for atco salaries in West Europe.
We get paid this salary for the responsibility and the specific knowhow and skill, not to be violated in the rules and laws that apply to us or to be a toy for the CEO to do with whatever he wants.

This is a literal copy of our CEO's points he has been spreading for years to get the public and professional opinion against us and not a single active atco at skeyes would give this interview, I can guarantee that. This is someone from the management posing as a controller to damage our image even further with the single purpose of keeping the attention on the "spoiled atcos" and away from their miserable failure to manage this company.

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lumumba
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by lumumba »

I you are right fare enough....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

ezis_bis
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by ezis_bis »

People, let's not let this escalate into some shouting contest.

Some remarks though;

I think everyone agrees Skeyes *is* understaffed.

Though, I doubt striking will fix this short term.

I also understood a negotiator is already appointed, or is this wrong from my side?

What I do fear, as by calling in 'sick' and doing so last minute, lots of people working at the airport/airlines who are sometimes (financially) struggling, do feel they get scr*wed over. These people of course feel unfairly treated, as those are not the guys Skeyes employees are angry with, but they are the guys who have to deal with it.

Maybe some understanding of eachother's situation would be more helpful.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

ezis_bis wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 15:47 People, let's not let this escalate into some shouting contest.

Some remarks though;

I think everyone agrees Skeyes *is* understaffed.

Though, I doubt striking will fix this short term.

I also understood a negotiator is already appointed, or is this wrong from my side?

What I do fear, as by calling in 'sick' and doing so last minute, lots of people working at the airport/airlines who are sometimes (financially) struggling, do feel they get scr*wed over. These people of course feel unfairly treated, as those are not the guys Skeyes employees are angry with, but they are the guys who have to deal with it.

Maybe some understanding of eachother's situation would be more helpful.
I agree, but reading through these last few pages almost feels like reading the comment section on these was getting very atco-bashing style, and this is sort of the one place where i expected more balanced views and reactions so I decided to react.
This is supposed to be a forum about delays at skeyes, but that does not require insults and pointing fingers I believe.
So if there are members here with an uncontrollable need to Point fingers, I'm glad to help them aim in the proper direction.

To be clear, we are not striking anymore.
Long term sick controllers are on the rosters and there is almost nobody available or willing to take these spots like i explained above. And when somebody calls sick, this is not 5 minutes in advance, this is hours in front. We get checkup doctors, these are not fake or protest calls. Again, there is simply nobody available because of the overloaded rosters and the few People having an off day have a family and plans of their own.
You must know this has happened like this for years already.
Before, people accepted and came to replace, trying their best to not have staffing flow. And what happened, nothing.
CEO and unions have been negotiating for the past 2 years and literally nothing came out.
Extreme flexibility is just a logical thing for this management, well it's not. People are done with doing effort and getting nothing back. No appreciation, no dialogue, no respect.
Just knife after knife in our backs and then some more rules being violated, just so he would not have to admit he has failed to ensure sufficient training and staff for years.
A sudden overload of trainees can not change this in a few months, not even in years.
You can only train so many people at once...

2 mediators were indeed added the social dialogue, on our request (employee side). He eventually agreed because he had no other option.
We are eagerly awaiting a reaction of politics.
We are also eagerly awaiting the verdicts in the 5 ongoing lawsuits staff started against the company for violating laws and rules.

And ofcourse we feel bad for all the passengers, pilots, groundcrews, owners of airlines, ... that are affected by this.
But to the Radarcontrollers in canac it is no longer an option to "just do a little extra effort" and try to fix this.
Because this staffing issue will continue for years to come. (Without exaggerating, this has been calculated in several models and simulations)
Pretty much the same number of Atcos will finish training (in maximum training capacity) as there are atcos retiring the next years. You don't fix a shortage like that.
They should have seen this coming years ago, but ignored it untill it was right in everyones face and now it is too late for a quick solution. Now somebody has to pay for those mistakes.
And we refuse to be the only ones paying -yet again-.
We want to work together to fix this, but there is no dialogue possible.
The only true option is regulating the capacity of the airspace and spreading staff and flights in a balanced way.
This would mean admitting mistakes however and not getting his way, so he refuses.

mvg
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

Good to have a controller on this forum! Thanks for that!

Reading the comments on an article it would be interesting to read, there are understandable and less understandable things for the people who are impacted by your airspace closures:


- Brussels tower is manned like you said, but that's not the unit causing the closures. Can you explain how long approach and Acc controllers are working per shift?
- you are not striking anymore but you were
- Explain us why you consider a night as two days of work but only for one day in order not to need a sick note from a doctor to call sick
- you are right: if there are less controllers present, the traffic must be regulated BUT don't close the airspace!
- you say you work 2/3 of your shift (maybe in the tower): 2/3 of 10 hours = 6,66 hours of work FOR TWO DAYS... That's 3,33 hour per day... not bad...
- Happy to compare your salaries with those of many captains. Especially those from radar controllers. I published the salaries of one of them before in this thread. Being a tower controller, you are in the first half of of your career: better compare with a copilot's salary... It's going to be even more interesting!
- Last question from my neighbor: if you have such a bad job with terrible conditions, why don't you quit and find another one? Easy answer: because you will never find such a job with such conditions and salary

SR20
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by SR20 »

A1299/19
From:16 APR 19 23:30 Till:17 APR 19 02:30
Text:BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS NORTH LOW, WEST HIGH, WEST LOW CLSD DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED

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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by jan_olieslagers »

if you have such a
@mvg: if you already know the answer, why ask the question? You could teach your neighbour (sic!) better manners than that!

That said: if problems are really so serious as reported - and I'm not disbelieving the reports - it seems quite quite hard to accept that the present way of action is the only possible approach. ATC staff are indeed rapidly loosing credibility even with me, who have long supported their cause. If the whole lot of them get kicked out any day soon they'll have no reason to complain except with themselves. But then, on the other hand, if they are NOT kicked out quick that will be an excellent indication they might have things more or less right.

Above all and again and again: WHERE IS THE GOVERNING AUTHORITY? Is Belgian state really dead??? If the Belgian minister does not even speak out (far less taking action) why do we still have a Belgian government (even if it is "demissionary")??? What guarantees do we get that the next "Belgian" "government" will have more "balls"?
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 16 Apr 2019, 19:22, edited 2 times in total.

convair
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by convair »

SR20 wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 18:48 A1299/19
From:16 APR 19 23:30 Till:17 APR 19 02:30
Text:BRUSSELS ACC SECTORS NORTH LOW, WEST HIGH, WEST LOW CLSD DUE TO STAFF SHORTAGE. EMERG FREQ ARE WATCHED
I think that closures, if and when they are "necessary", should be programmed so that the impact would be minimal. In that respect, it would be interesting to know which airports are affected by which sector's closure. Also which sectors' closure are the most detrimental for the economy.

convair
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by convair »

@Phoenixx
I always tend to believe most people are honest and sincere.
You have given above a number of plausible explanations, but you should understand that combining strikes, fake sick leaves and genuine lack of staff is a bit of an "explosive" cocktail.

The management certainly seems to be at fault as well; e.g. I cannot understand how long term sick controllers are still on the roster: after a while they aren't payed their salary any longer I presume, so they should be replaced. You have union representatives; why don't they take the initiative of proposing more practical rosters instead of pouring oil on the fire.

Also, the comments, not convincingly denied imho, made by "mvg" on the salary and working conditions tell me that, besides an occasional higher workload, you and your colleagues don't have it so bad. In such a position, you are expected to react responsibly, even under difficult circumstances.

mvg
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

@ jan_olieslagers
Of course it is not their only way of action and they are losing their credibility.
But there is something unique with this job: they will never be all kicked out! An airline can hire planes and crews to fly for them, or they can put pax on other flights from other airlines, or they can refund tickets or even use trains and or buses in some cases.
Atcos are irreplacable! If they fire all of them, it will take years to train new ones to replace them! (hoping that some are kept to train the new ones on the job). Even a controller from Brussels is not allowed to go and work in Oostende! That may not happen without a long training (in a school and on the job). So that will never happen and that's what makes them feeling so strong: they kow it! It's with them or it's nothing!
So they won't be kicked out! Never! And it won't mean that they were right.
The difference with the past actions/strikes/conflicts is that they are facing a stubborn CEO who will never give up until he is kicked out. That's probably what will have to happen.
That's one of the reasons why the government can't do anything or doesn't dare to step in: if they fire everyone, there will be no planes over Belgium for two years and if they fire the CEO, there will be big political consequences, because Skeyes is still a State owned company with a CEO put there for political reasons. On the other hand the governemt has designated that CEO and asked him to keep his budget within the limits (State owned company) and he is doing well. Before being CEO, he was head of a Minister Cabinet: they don't want to fire one of their good soldiers, from their own army, chosen by themselves...


@ convair
Why are long term sick Atcos still on the roster? Because roster are published two months in advance and most of them give sick notes month per month. So when the roster is made let's say now for June, those long term sick people are supposed to be back as their sick note is valid until end April. Probably May isn't even covered yet by a sick note but already published with some of them on the roster.
Last edited by mvg on 16 Apr 2019, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

mvg wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 18:31 Good to have a controller on this forum! Thanks for that!

Reading the comments on an article it would be interesting to read, there are understandable and less understandable things for the people who are impacted by your airspace closures:


- Brussels tower is manned like you said, but that's not the unit causing the closures. Can you explain how long approach and Acc controllers are working per shift?
- you are not striking anymore but you were
- Explain us why you consider a night as two days of work but only for one day in order not to need a sick note from a doctor to call sick
- you are right: if there are less controllers present, the traffic must be regulated BUT don't close the airspace!
- you say you work 2/3 of your shift (maybe in the tower): 2/3 of 10 hours = 6,66 hours of work FOR TWO DAYS... That's 3,33 hour per day... not bad...
- Happy to compare your salaries with those of many captains. Especially those from radar controllers. I published the salaries of one of them before in this thread. Being a tower controller, you are in the first half of of your career: better compare with a copilot's salary... It's going to be even more interesting!
- Last question from my neighbor: if you have such a bad job with terrible conditions, why don't you quit and find another one? Easy answer: because you will never find such a job with such conditions and salary
Ofcourse, happy to explain a bit.
Long post coming up though, will keep shorter next time.
For the record, while I know many of my colleagues share my opinion, I do not claim to speak for anyone else (even when I say we) of for all atcos. I just wish to explain what is happening.

- The article in le soir is supposedly written by an Ebbr Tower controller, hence my explanation.
- approach and area controllers are 2/3 of their shift on active duty. 40 min control, 40 min coördinator and 40 min break. This cycles to the end of the shift and for the nightshift is more grouped, but still in a way where it provides sufficient constant attention.
- We were indeed striking, like every unit (all 5 Towers, approach and acc). We don't have these staffing issues like canac anymore, but there is more than one fundamental issue in the company.
There were 27 Points on the strike announcement, of which 15 applied to atcos. And like you said canac is also the future for many tower controllers, so issues in canac will be prospects for ADR Atcos.
Over 200 of us (+85 percent of active atcos in the company) signed the open letter that was sent to our CEO, starting they support the actions and do not agree with him, his statements, his decisions and his actions. That should be a very clear sign something is fundamentally wrong.
- Regarding the night shift and the sick days, we follow what the CEO has been doing for months. He considers it to be 1 day of work to increase the number of shifts per month, but then sends a doctor to our house when somebody calls sick because it counts as two. We have been asking for clarity in the rules for years, but they are afraid to confirm anything as it will be used against them later (in court).
Ofcourse we allow the doctor to enter when he comes to check on a sick nightcontroller, but when we reverse his own logic on him, we are suddenly in the wrong?
- the nightshift has historically been counted as 2 days for over 20 years, this is not something we made up just now.
It only counts as 10 operational hours though! We still have a duty to perform 35 operational hours per week, so 3 nightshifts and done does not work, that's 5 hours short on a single week.
Ofcourse this is not mentioned anywhere as it does not fit his agenda. Our problem with him trying to take this from us is that it further reduces our free time.
- the decision to close the airspace is not made by controllers.
This is all prescribed in procedures (that we did not make) of what to do with x number of controllers or supervisors short of a full staff. Once again, this is not coordinated or agreed to in some dark bar, people get sick. And the more they work, the less they rest, the more they will get sick. We have families and a social life too that we would like to maintain. Working 6/7 days per week (10/11/12 in a row) goes against all safety logic. There have been numerous studies about this and the company admitted earlier that more than 6 in a row is not advisable due to increased fatigue.
Yet they still knowingly overload the roster by multiple days per person per month. This does not happen in any country in West Europe to be clear!
- you can count it as 3.33h per day, but fact is that we are available for our employer for 10h straight and that these 10 hours are spread over 2 dates.
- Regarding the salaries, I think you are making a crucial mistake. All the extra hours performed now are not by choice and ofcourse these are paid extra. The BASE salary of a radar controller is only few hundred euro more than that of a tower controller (200-300 I believe) It requires a full year of extra training too however.
Imagine suddenly doing 50 extra block hours and being sent out of base for 3 weeks a month. Peoples mouths will also open from the number on that payslip. However, that's not sustainable and not what you signed up for. it is a temporary way to shush and the logical outcome of working more than contractually agreed. The controllers are done being shushed with money and empty promises. We agreed to work 35 hours per week for a specific amount. Not to work 45 and earn more. We still do the 45, don't get me wrong. But we're done with it. And we sure as hell don't want to go to 48 per week for the next few years.
- and to answer your last question; we do not have a bad job, a controller that doesnt like his job Will not keep doing it.
The conditions as they are foreseen are not a problem either (like i said above, 35 h week means 37.5h at work, intresting job, good salary, ...)
What we have a problem with is the way everything is being forced now.
- we are not allowed to take our vacation days, but we are also not allowed to keep them (?)
- we are not allowed to take parental leave as stated in the law
- we are forced to work more hours for years already and years to come (this is a onesided change in contract content, not allowed)
- internal rules regarding a wide variety of topics are disregarded or 'reinterpreted' as it suits the management.
- there is no communication, no respect, no dialogue.
- we are being forced into a grid roster that we do not want
- we are being lied to by the management
- we are being lied about by the management to the public
- if we don't act, we get the worst of every European ansps way of working (and the best for the management)
- for years already, they have been asking for some flexibility, and some more and some more. And nothing changed. On the contrary.
- ...
Honestly, I could go on for 10-20 more lines, but the point is that there is a problem for a reason. And while some controllers have left, leaving does not solve anything (if you think about it, the airspace will be closed even more then...).
And we do want to solve this. We want to go to a company that is nice to work for again, for a management that listens and cares (at least a bit?) About it's staff and not just it's numbers and keeping their management post for 5 more years.
We drew a line, do not cross, (and it is deep in the red zone...) that is all.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

Damn that comment is much longer than i expected.
I could keep answering all your questions, but I'm afraid this is going off-topic and will simply extend into a very lengthy back and forth discussion, so I will not.
Essence is that there is much more going on than the public knows. And that it will not (because it's simply not possible) stop anytime soon, even though we would like that.

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

convair wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 19:35 @Phoenixx
I always tend to believe most people are honest and sincere.
You have given above a number of plausible explanations, but you should understand that combining strikes, fake sick leaves and genuine lack of staff is a bit of an "explosive" cocktail.

The management certainly seems to be at fault as well; e.g. I cannot understand how long term sick controllers are still on the roster: after a while they aren't payed their salary any longer I presume, so they should be replaced. You have union representatives; why don't they take the initiative of proposing more practical rosters instead of pouring oil on the fire.

Also, the comments, not convincingly denied imho, made by "mvg" on the salary and working conditions tell me that, besides an occasional higher workload, you and your colleagues don't have it so bad. In such a position, you are expected to react responsibly, even under difficult circumstances.
First of all, drop the "fake". But yes it is An explosieve cocktail that is all connected to eachother, among many other things.

They are not allowed to take them off the roster due to illness.
If they come back, they need to have a roster with active shifts, at any time.

The Union has proposed this, the CEO refused.
Same way he refuses everything the unions bring up...

'Occasional' higher workload?
5/6 shifts per month extra for years already and years to come is not occasional. We do react responsibly.
Safety and fatigue reports are discarded or downgraded to less serious categories, controllers literally come to work tired (and sometimes sick).
Controllers have been forced to go below seperation minima because it's a European Summit and some head of state wants a police helicopter above in IMC,
That is not responsible.
We are responsible for safety, not numbers. If air traffic cant happen safely, it should not happen.

mvg
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by mvg »

@ Phoenixx
Thanks for the long explanation.

There are problems for sure.

Let me answer 4 points you mentioned (some are true, others i think less) because they are important:

- there has never been one leave day lost because it wasn't taken before the end of the year. Same is valid for compensation hours.

- difference between salaries in Canac and towers is way more than 300€ (after tax): ask next time you go to eat to one of your colleagues from CANAC :) The salaries I published before are those from a Canac controller and are real (proofs available if kept anonymous through a moderator, if that can end the discussion)

- you are not allowed to take your parental leave: how do you want it to be possible when you are so short of staff? Moreover half of the requests are for a 4/5 work and they all ask to have free on Wednesdays to be with their kids or Monday/Fridays to have long weekends: fair enough but how do you want to manage a roster like that? That means that those working full time will NEVER have a Wed, Fri or Monday free! Unacceptable! And that's the whole problem! The rules are not adapted to the job!

- no dialogue and no respect from management: I agree

Let's finish with a question: would you agree to give up your contract and sign for conditions like pilots have?
- Well defined maximum of hours
- no choice for your roster (you work what you are given)
- Stand-by on days specified by the employer
- no nomination -> much less job security
- guaranteed rest periods and annual leave (but maybe not when you would like and most probably not in the summer months)?

And like you said, we could discuss hours and hours :) We all want the same: the disruptions to stop and an agreement to be found. But for that you have to give away things. And management too! Good luck!

Phoenixx
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Re: Social actions at air traffic control service skeyes (Belgium) - possible air traffic disruptions

Post by Phoenixx »

mvg wrote: 16 Apr 2019, 20:08 - there has never been one leave day lost because it wasn't taken before the end of the year. Same is valid for compensation hours.
- difference between salaries in Canac and towers is way more than 300€ (after tax): ask next time you go to eat to one of your colleagues from CANAC :) The salaries I published before are those from a Canac controller and are real (proofs available if kept anonymous through a moderator, if that can end the discussion)
- you are not allowed to take your parental leave: how do you want it to be possible when you are so short of staff? Moreover half of the requests are for a 4/5 work and they all ask to have free on Wednesdays to be with their kids or Monday/Fridays to have long weekends: fair enough but how do you want to manage a roster like that? That means that those working full time will NEVER have a Wed, Fri or Monday free! Unacceptable! And that's the whole problem! The rules are not adapted to the job!
- no dialogue and no respect from management: I agree

Let's finish with a question: would you agree to give up your contract and sign for conditions like pilots have?
- Well defined maximum of hours
- no choice for your roster (you work what you are given)
- Stand-by on days specified by the employer
- no nomination -> much less job security
- guaranteed rest periods and annual leave (but maybe not when you would like and most probably not in the summer months)?
- no, they get transferred and they have to be taken before end of march. Good luck with that in this staff shortage. Some controllers have enough Vacation days to not come for 3 months straight, so how Ill they do that?
The management wants to pay the remaining Vacation days instead of letting controllers actually take the leave. This does not intrest us, but do you think we have a choice?

- well I have talked to colleagues in canac and colleagues in training, that's why I was reacting with "few hundred euro more". I have found your post on Page 3 with the salary, but I find it hard to believe this is for a standard canac atco.

- parental leave is a European right by law. The wordt they can do is delay it for 6 months for operational needs. They Will need 6 years... But parents have a right to spend time with their kid, they don't have to pay for the managements mistakes?
"Long weekends" is a joke right, they work 3/4 weekends...
And People Will agree on other days of the week too.
Doesnt matter though, the requests are ignored, delayed even more and there is even a case where HR frauded with the duration of the request...
Operational "needs" do not overrule the law.

And to answer your question, well this is exactly what the CEO wants to implement and what we do not want. This differs from atco to atco, but personally I am not a big fan compared to the current rostering system. Partially because it does not solve the issues at hand, and partially because I like having "freedom" of swapping shifts and matching my shifts and offtime as close as possible to the needs and timetable of my family.
Que sera, sera. But we would like to have something to say about our future and the rest of our carreers.
And a payrise will not make me change my mind on that.

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