Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - Impact on Boeing 737 MAX

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lumumba
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by lumumba » 13 Mar 2019, 12:03

luchtzak wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:35
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:48
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:23
Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.
I gues the MAX series will be the last 737...
Guess not, still constructing Boeing 737 MAX 200 etc...

The concept and the design of the 737 has been proven to be successful ...
knowing that oil will be very rare in 30 or 40 years it's sur,like electric cars planes of the near future will be very different.
So we can suppose that this will be the last programme's flying on Jet1 engines.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers » 13 Mar 2019, 12:24

737MAX wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 06:57
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 02:20
For once I agree with President Trump!
Probably because you know nothing about flying.
Or for what reasons pilots sit in a cockpit.

Your previous post about the MCAS says enough about your knowledge of the matter. And I really don’t feel like explaining anything to ignorants who think they know.
I'm sure you know more than I do about flying :)
I am sure you know why pilots sit in a cockpit better than me as I wasn't the one flying anything from C182 to the A321 over 3 different continents as a commercial pilot since 2013 :)
You are very right 737MAX!! I am ignorant and don't know about the 737MAX features only experts like YOU know why a brand new aircraft crashes few minutes after departure and only experts like YOU know how to react to flight control problems as a crew, so as the world grounds the 737MAX over safety issues, only knowledgeable people like YOU can continue to fly her safely.
On the other hand Ignorants like me will pass on that as we have no idea about aviation safety and "why pilots sit in the cockpit".
Etops Flyers

737MAX
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by 737MAX » 13 Mar 2019, 12:49

etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 12:24
737MAX wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 06:57
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 02:20
For once I agree with President Trump!
Probably because you know nothing about flying.
Or for what reasons pilots sit in a cockpit.

Your previous post about the MCAS says enough about your knowledge of the matter. And I really don’t feel like explaining anything to ignorants who think they know.
I'm sure you know more than I do about flying :)
I am sure you know why pilots sit in a cockpit better than me as I wasn't the one flying anything from C182 to the A321 over 3 different continents as a commercial pilot since 2013 :)
You are very right 737MAX!! I am ignorant and don't know about the 737MAX features only experts like YOU know why a brand new aircraft crashes few minutes after departure and only experts like YOU know how to react to flight control problems as a crew, so as the world grounds the 737MAX over safety issues, only knowledgeable people like YOU can continue to fly her safely.
On the other hand Ignorants like me will pass on that as we have no idea about aviation safety and "why pilots sit in the cockpit".
Etops Flyers
Your post about the MCAS feature is completely false, I don't write about Airbus if I don't know what I'm talking about.

Like I said several times; if the MAX has to be grounded for any reason, then so be it. I'm not considering myself as a king who's gonna be able to save the plane from any situation, no. But I do think many crashes can be avoided with pilots that are properly trained. Properly trained doesn't only mean good flying skills, it means good in every level of automation, including 0 automation, and obviously much more... If you are a commercial pilot, you probably know it's a big issue in the industry.

Saying that doesn't make me a hero pilot or whatsoever, it's a fact and you can't ignore that. Saying you can replace all this by computers is complete non-sense. That's even more surprising if you are behind the controls of an A321...

It's quite obvious to me that the MAX has to be grounded if it has recurrent problems that lead to situations like unreliable airspeed + runaway stabilizer at the same time. There is no doubt about that. And I wouldn't be happy to sit in a plane that is known to be that sick. But AFAIK, it is not the case yet. Or have I missed something?

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers » 13 Mar 2019, 13:12

737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
Now on the MAX side, they give you a system supposed to prevent you from stalling but can pitch the plane down to a crash anytime.
So what I was pointing out is, Boeing made a safety system which pilots can NOT trust?!
I never said something like computers can take over, no need for pilots etc.
By the way... If your airplane doesn't behave, no training will save you.

Etops

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 » 13 Mar 2019, 15:37

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:50
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:27
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 09:12
I'm not a pilot... but if 350 new planes fly around and 2 crash in similar circumstances within half a year… statistically you have a problem… and you ground the fleet…
Cheers,
Stij
Absolutely. But Trump is just being Trump, sharing his opinion on something he doesn't know a thing about.
Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".
Does he fly it himself? :roll:

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Conti764
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Conti764 » 13 Mar 2019, 15:38

737MAX wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:21
Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:50

Trump owns a Boeing 757. So he surely knows a bit more about aircraft then "not a thing".
Just like FlightSimmers, probably... :roll:
Years ago, I even landed a 747... ;)

Poiu
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Poiu » 13 Mar 2019, 16:57

etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:12
737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
You pretend being an Airbus pilot and clearly never heard about OEB48, a special procedure for Airbus because erratic behaviour of the automatics led to some very very narrow escapes.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by luchtzak » 13 Mar 2019, 17:45

Canada has banned commercial Boeing #737Max flights in Canadian airspace. An exception is made for fights already in the air, enroute to/from or within Canada. Ferry/positioning (no passenger) flights also allowed.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers » 13 Mar 2019, 19:32

Poiu wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 16:57
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 13:12
737 MAX What you don't get is, I never said you can replace pilots by a computer, I said Airbus builds planes and says "use as much automation as possible" when flying the airplane meaning you can trust your plane, I don't know about other Boeing planes but, should not be very different than airbus.
On approach if you have any flap setting selected on auto flight and need to go missed you just push the thrust levers and see what your airbus does for you,no need to think about an unexpected nose down attitude during climb out, no need for any specific unusual situation training for exemple.
This is how automation should be used.
You pretend being an Airbus pilot and clearly never heard about OEB48, a special procedure for Airbus because erratic behaviour of the automatics led to some very very narrow escapes.
I still find it amazing how people instead of accepting the 737MAX problems try and bully the 320 which has been the state of the art fly by wire airplane for more than 30 years now.
Infact it led to narrow escapes but not two crashes within few month interval at the start of its life.
We should compare early A320's to 737NG's or even the Classics.
Automation at boeing back then was...Let me think...Steam gauges on the 737CL and radio altimeter problems causing once again TK1951.
I recall flight control problems as well on early 737s going into spins and crashing on final,low altitude again...
Don't get me wrong, I love the 737 however, the A320 was a step ahead speaking of automation.
Myself a fake and you a real airbus man we both know very well that the A320 has changed drastically over the years since the Air France 296 crash.
The LH 321 causing the oeb is very different from new A320s and because you like teaching I would love to hear from you about them.
The MAX is a new born airplane with only a few hundred produced, has a new system and it seems to fail at low altitude contrary to the A320 which has been produced at more than 8000 which is not cool is it?
I was very wrong comparing the normal procedures of the airbus with the MAX, this is true.
But lets be clear the following procedure is easier than fighting a MAX on departure at low altitude.
Altitude = Time, no time is less options.
55462878_10210912883938115_8221781583208644608_n.jpg
My conclusion; the MAX has serious problems and the whole world understands this.
I find it sad how people try to bully online when someone shares their toughts.
Same technique everytime, "you pretand to be, you don't know anything about flying..."
Please people!!! I do not pretend to be a pilot, very fortunately I am one :) or should I consider both my FAA and EASA licenses and say I am pilot twice ;) ).
Fly safe everyone.

Etops Flyers

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by ezis_bis » 13 Mar 2019, 20:04

I found this PBS (US) interview rather interesting, especially the remark about the symbiotic FAA-Boeing relationship;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JPdRWjadI

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Themax » 13 Mar 2019, 20:40

etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 19:32
Image
I don't know the airbus at all, but from looking at that picture, I fail to see any difference with the Max. An automatic system can and will probably fail at some time (it is still made my humans who are far from perfect), so when it does, switch it off. I fail to see how that makes the Max any more dangerous than any other modern airliner flying in the world right now ?
Still grounding the airplane is probably a good idea until more information comes out of the black boxes.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by sn26567 » 13 Mar 2019, 20:48

ezis_bis wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:04
I found this PBS (US) interview rather interesting, especially the remark about the symbiotic FAA-Boeing relationship;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JPdRWjadI
Jon Ostrowern a renowned aviation writer, said today that between FAA and Boeing there is a revolving door. Boeing even has the right to certify some parts and procedures itself, without FAA involvement.

Well now, President Trump himself called the end of the recreation and grounded the 737 MAX in the U.S. Common sense prevailed!

If there are recurrent problems with an aircraft, which attitude do you prefer: "We know, but until we find the cause, let's continue flying" or "We know, and until we know the cause, stop flying" ?
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by sn26567 » 13 Mar 2019, 20:50

Trump grounds Boeing Max planes

President Donald Trump says his administration is grounding Boeing 737 Max planes based on new information about the crash of an Ethiopian Air Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft.

Trump said from the White House on Wednesday that planes currently in the air would be ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded, and that airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision.

Source: CNN

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/faa- ... in-the-us/
André
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers » 13 Mar 2019, 21:12

Themax wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:40
etopsflyers wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 19:32
Image
I don't know the airbus at all, but from looking at that picture, I fail to see any difference with the Max. An automatic system can and will probably fail at some time (it is still made my humans who are far from perfect), so when it does, switch it off. I fail to see how that makes the Max any more dangerous than any other modern airliner flying in the world right now ?
Still grounding the airplane is probably a good idea until more information comes out of the black boxes.
For me the biggest difference between MAX and A320 is we don't know enough about the MAX yet.
One thing is sure though, two crashed at low altitude within minutes after departure is very alarming and this is what makes it more dangerous than the others.
Any airplane can have a failure of course, yesterday's Turkish BRU-IST A321NEO had a diversion to Sofia due to mechanical problems but in the MAX case loss of control is not only dangerous, it is fatal.
I don't think flight training is enough for such a hazard, as I stated previsouly the airplane being low on the departure portion of a flight, altitude does not guarentee the crew enough time to proceed as they should.
Mitigating risks is primary in aviation, grounding the MAX does not mean it is a bad airplane, it is a temporary event and will be over when the the issue will be sorted out.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by etopsflyers » 13 Mar 2019, 21:15

sn26567 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:50
Trump grounds Boeing Max planes

President Donald Trump says his administration is grounding Boeing 737 Max planes based on new information about the crash of an Ethiopian Air Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft.

Trump said from the White House on Wednesday that planes currently in the air would be ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded, and that airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision.

Source: CNN
I really look forward to what's gonna happen next.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Passenger » 13 Mar 2019, 21:32

sn26567 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:50
Trump grounds Boeing Max planes

President Donald Trump says his administration is grounding Boeing 737 Max planes based on new information about the crash of an Ethiopian Air Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft. Trump said from the White House on Wednesday that planes currently in the air would be ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded, and that airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision.

Source: CNN
When CNN is the source for news about Trump, there is a 100% certainty that it's not accurate. It's not "Trump grounds Boeing MAX planes": it's "Trump announces that the FAA grounds Boeing 737 MAX 8/9".

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/faa- ... in-the-us/

Relevant FAA Emergency Order (and not Trump Executive Order):
https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/ ... _Order.pdf

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - Impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by luchtzak » 14 Mar 2019, 00:37

French aviation authorities to investigate the Ethiopian Airlines orange black boxes.

⚠️ Accident du #Boeing737Max
@BoeingAirplanes
ET-AVJ exploité par
@flyethiopian
survenu le 10/03 / Les autorités éthiopiennes demandent à
@BEA_Aero
son assistance pour l’analyse des FDR & CVR / Toute communication sur les avancées de l’enquête est du ressort de ces autorités.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by thalenoi » 14 Mar 2019, 01:30

luchtzak wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 11:35
Stij wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:48
Conti764 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 10:23
Maye Boeing would have been better off if they designed the 737NG replacement from zero, but they didn't and now it's up to them to resolve these issues.
I gues the MAX series will be the last 737...
Guess not, still constructing Boeing 737 MAX 200 etc...

The concept and the design of the 737 has been proven to be successful ...
But not the changes made to the concept with the max.
Flybywire, The French are far more advanced.
Europe had realtime computer programs in 1985 whilst American software was still running batch with 80 colon input data, I know: I worked for the #1 USA financial software mainframe company 1980-1989.


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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - impact on Boeing 737 MAX

Post by Desert Rat » 14 Mar 2019, 09:09

Passenger wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 21:32
sn26567 wrote:
13 Mar 2019, 20:50
Trump grounds Boeing Max planes

President Donald Trump says his administration is grounding Boeing 737 Max planes based on new information about the crash of an Ethiopian Air Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft. Trump said from the White House on Wednesday that planes currently in the air would be ordered to land at their destination and remain grounded, and that airlines and pilots had been notified of the decision.

Source: CNN
When CNN is the source for news about Trump, there is a 100% certainty that it's not accurate. It's not "Trump grounds Boeing MAX planes": it's "Trump announces that the FAA grounds Boeing 737 MAX 8/9".

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/faa- ... in-the-us/

Relevant FAA Emergency Order (and not Trump Executive Order):
https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/ ... _Order.pdf
What about Foxnews?
Is it accurate with them?

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