Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi - Impact on Boeing 737 MAX

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Luke777
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Luke777 »

Can we simplify all this information to the following or not: In the hard competition for more fuel efficient acft, Boeing equipped it's 737 with a big new eco engine that actually didn't quite fit very well on the existing 737 concept, they encountered some negative consequences and had to work around these by means of adding extra software that was able to counteract these consequences...

Bracebrace
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Bracebrace »

Themax wrote:
11 Mar 2019, 18:04
If you're dealing with both problems, then do both procedures.
How can you identify correctly if you want to shut down a system that protects you at low airspeeds (close to stall angle of attacks) and be able to identify an airspeed unreliable situation? The system is supposed to work in low airspeed scenario's. It opens huge doors to negative training.

I'm waiting for the first pilot to shut down the (in this case correctly working) system on an ILS after a glide approach and allow the aircraft to fall down to planet earth aiming for 10° pitch up and 80% N1 (whatever the values on the MAX), shutting down the nose down trim, all while he doesn't realise what is actually happening...

But indeed, this is the Indonesian crash.

Bracebrace
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Bracebrace »

Touché :-)

I know, at least I warned them lol ;-)

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »


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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

Two more to the list:
  • GOL Linhas Aéreas
  • Aeromexico

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

#update Senator Diane Feinstein to FAA—ground the Max: “Until the cause of the crash is known and it’s clear that similar risks aren’t present in the domestic fleet, I believe all Boeing 737 Max 8 series aircraft operating in the United States should be temporarily grounded”

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

  • SpiceJet and Jet Airways, but at least 1,000 hours experience on the type for a captain and 500 hours for copilots (Indian civil aviation authorities), Jet Airways' Boeing 737 MAX aircraft are grounded anyway after the non-payment of lease rentals
  • Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS), affecting SilkAir (6)

telspace2005
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by telspace2005 »

luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 01:24
Two more to the list:
  • GOL Linhas Aéreas
  • Aeromexico
I am so relieved ! Good news.

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

“Ever since the Lion Air crash, Boeing has been developing a flight control software enhancement for its Boeing 737 MAX type, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer,” the U.S. aircraft manufacturer announced. The FAA says it anticipates mandating this software enhancement with an Airworthiness Directive (AD) no later than April. Boeing have worked with the FAA in development of this software enhancement.

The update includes updates to the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law, pilot displays, operation manuals and crew training. The enhanced flight control law incorporates angle of attack (AOA) inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle of attack reading, and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufacturers ... -max-type/

Acid-drop
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Acid-drop »

What is TUI waiting ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Acid-drop
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Acid-drop »

luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:29
“Ever since the Lion Air crash, Boeing has been developing a flight control software enhancement for its Boeing 737 MAX type, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer,” the U.S. aircraft manufacturer announced. The FAA says it anticipates mandating this software enhancement with an Airworthiness Directive (AD) no later than April. Boeing have worked with the FAA in development of this software enhancement.

The update includes updates to the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law, pilot displays, operation manuals and crew training. The enhanced flight control law incorporates angle of attack (AOA) inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle of attack reading, and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufacturers ... -max-type/
What a bad PR !!
They basically say that the crash of this week could have been avoided !!
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

Acid-drop wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:31
What is TUI waiting ?
André Berger, Flight Operations director, flight instructor and TRI/E B737/767/777/787 of TUI fly Belgium wrote: We operate a fleet of #B737max8 for more than a year and can only say it performed excellently from a safety, operational and customer satisfaction perspective.

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

Unconfirmed: Australian CAA to ban 737 MAX from its airspace.

Matt
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Matt »

Acid-drop wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:36
luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:29
“Ever since the Lion Air crash, Boeing has been developing a flight control software enhancement for its Boeing 737 MAX type, designed to make an already safe aircraft even safer,” the U.S. aircraft manufacturer announced. The FAA says it anticipates mandating this software enhancement with an Airworthiness Directive (AD) no later than April. Boeing have worked with the FAA in development of this software enhancement.

The update includes updates to the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) flight control law, pilot displays, operation manuals and crew training. The enhanced flight control law incorporates angle of attack (AOA) inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle of attack reading, and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufacturers ... -max-type/
What a bad PR !!
They basically say that the crash of this week could have been avoided !!
Let's not jump to conclusions.

A software update goes through multiple iterations, unit testing, integration tests, validation tests and qualification tests before being released and distributed to the airlines. This can take MONTHS.

This is the aviation industry and critical software we are talking about. Not a Facebook app software patch...

This can still be the SW patch for the first crash...
Last edited by Matt on 12 Mar 2019, 09:20, edited 1 time in total.

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luchtzak
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by luchtzak »

luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 09:10
Unconfirmed: Australian CAA to ban 737 MAX from its airspace.
The Australian Civil Aviation Authority has just suspended any Boeing 737 MAX aircraft from flying into or out of Australia due to safety concerns following the Ethiopian air disaster. Two foreign airlines fly these aircraft types to Australia.

Luke777
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Luke777 »

luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:47
Acid-drop wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:31
What is TUI waiting ?
André Berger, Flight Operations director, flight instructor and TRI/E B737/767/777/787 of TUI fly Belgium wrote: We operate a fleet of #B737max8 for more than a year and can only say it performed excellently from a safety, operational and customer satisfaction perspective.
read between the lines: the economical impact could wipe us out...

Matt
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Matt »

Luke777 wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 09:21
luchtzak wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:47
Acid-drop wrote:
12 Mar 2019, 08:31
What is TUI waiting ?
André Berger, Flight Operations director, flight instructor and TRI/E B737/767/777/787 of TUI fly Belgium wrote: We operate a fleet of #B737max8 for more than a year and can only say it performed excellently from a safety, operational and customer satisfaction perspective.
read between the lines: the economical impact could wipe us out...
TUI fly BE only has 4 B737-MAX 8 aircraft.

Grounding 4 aircraft would not wipe them out... the PR however...

Desert Rat
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Desert Rat »

737MAX wrote:
11 Mar 2019, 18:26


The other issue in the industry is that many airlines discourage manual flight. Some pilots count way too much on automation and are therefore weak in manual flight skills. Good luck to recover from such a situation (unreliable airspeed + runaway stabilizer) if you basically never fly manually (or only when the plane is perfectly in trim and on speed...).
chinese authorities have required airlines to fly manual below FL100.
Last edited by Desert Rat on 12 Mar 2019, 09:50, edited 1 time in total.


Luke777
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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crashes between Addis Ababa and Nairobi

Post by Luke777 »

Yesterday on the radio: TUI passengers that no longer have confidence in Max8 can choose other acft type but first have to pay for extra cost...

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