Another strike at skyes (Belgocontrol): 12-13 March 2019

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

User avatar
lumumba
Posts: 1519
Joined: 04 Sep 2003, 00:00
Location: brussels Europe

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by lumumba » 02 Mar 2019, 11:14

Conti764 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 10:08
Djeez... How much does an ATC earn a month? 4000? 5000? Unbelievable.
I don't always agree with their strikes, but ground staff lifting a few hundred pieces of heavy luggage a day for about 1500 euro a month protesting about lack of staff I can understand. But these guys?

Can't ATC be done by the military iso of this ridiculous skyes?
I'm agree with that take 10% of there wages and hire more workers you don't need to be an engineer to be a ATC why do they earn so much!!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

flightlover
Posts: 607
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by flightlover » 02 Mar 2019, 12:16

lumumba wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 11:14
Conti764 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 10:08
Djeez... How much does an ATC earn a month? 4000? 5000? Unbelievable.
I don't always agree with their strikes, but ground staff lifting a few hundred pieces of heavy luggage a day for about 1500 euro a month protesting about lack of staff I can understand. But these guys?

Can't ATC be done by the military iso of this ridiculous skyes?
I'm agree with that take 10% of there wages and hire more workers you don't need to be an engineer to be a ATC why do they earn so much!!!!
For the same reason any CFO, CEO or even politician earns a lot: They have a big responsability. (Although some of these don't suffer the same consequences when they screw up at work)

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11161
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by luchtzak » 02 Mar 2019, 14:21

Now, will the airspace be covered this evening?

DIBO
Posts: 515
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 14:54

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by DIBO » 02 Mar 2019, 16:27

Conti764 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 10:08
Djeez... How much does an ATC earn a month? 4000? 5000? Unbelievable.
I don't always agree with their strikes, but ground staff lifting a few hundred pieces of heavy luggage a day for about 1500 euro a month protesting about lack of staff I can understand. But these guys?
SKEYES wrote:During the training course you will receive a monthly salary of approximately EUR 2,000 gross/month. Once you have passed the unit training you will receive a salary of at least EUR 6,700 gross/month.
I can understand that there are frustrations about bad management (lack of long term staff planning, lack of good shift rosters, etc) but many people with degrees work shifts, have trouble planning a decent vacation, have bad work-life balance, are also responsible for the lives of people (OK probably not so many at a time), and earn less than half.
So I understand ATCO's doing some protesting, some actions, 'organised' flow restrictions, etc. to improve things, but don't abuse the monopoly and do some self-motivating at the end of the month by looking at your pay-slip.
Conti764 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 10:08
Can't ATC be done by the military iso of this ridiculous skyes?
You can't improvise with safety in aviation, has been done in the past, at the cost of many lives. But in my opinion they should keep Semmerzake open, certainly not in the first place to counter strike actions, but as part of a solid contingency plan. And as a last resort, if civil ATCO's start excessively abusing their right to organize actions ('epidemic' of other) and abuse out of proportion their monopoly.
737MAX wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 10:14
These guys have huge responsibilities and deserve a better treatment too. Do you even have a clue of what their demands are? It's not all about money, you know.
And so do pilots, for both the (even more) huge responsibilities and the deserving better treatment (in many companies). And they can't take a break every so often to play some pool or workout at the gym while being paid big time! And no ATCO has lost its live while making mistakes. And with TCAS an extra safety layer has been provided taking precedence over ATC instructions. So ATC responsibilities are still important, but let's keep things in perspective. And traffic wise, look for ex. at the SFO - Air Canada incident, one ATCO doing GND & TWR with intersecting rwy's for landing & T/O's, with night traffic being a multitude of EBBR traffic (airport & FIR).

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 34902
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by sn26567 » 02 Mar 2019, 16:51

Are all the sick ATCOs healthy again? That was a quick one!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1275
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Boeing767copilot » 02 Mar 2019, 19:24

sn26567 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 16:51
Are all the sick ATCOs healthy again? That was a quick one!

:lol: :lol: :roll: :roll:

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 2878
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by jan_olieslagers » 02 Mar 2019, 19:31

@DIBO: thanks, I am not really aware of the situationas I am only an amateur pilot, but your comments make a lot of sense

@Andre: please do not get cynical, I thought better of you.

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1275
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Boeing767copilot » 02 Mar 2019, 20:53

sn26567 wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 16:51
Are all the sick ATCOs healthy again? That was a quick one!

Does the air traffic control guild still exist? And how is their relationship with the skeyes management and with the trade unions?

convair
Posts: 1730
Joined: 18 Nov 2011, 00:02

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by convair » 02 Mar 2019, 21:07

jan_olieslagers wrote:
02 Mar 2019, 19:31
@DIBO: thanks, I am not really aware of the situationas I am only an amateur pilot, but your comments make a lot of sense

@Andre: please do not get cynical, I thought better of you.
Difficult to avoid cynicism under the circumstances.
A situation where a corporation can hold hostage the country's whole aviation activity is unacceptable imho.

Passenger
Posts: 6074
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Passenger » 02 Mar 2019, 22:01

Tweet from a MEP: "...Wanneer vooral personeelsleden van ACV-strekking luchtverkeer zo lamleggen, geloof ik niet in toeval. Is syndicale traditie bij Belgocontrol. Vakantiegangers zijn slachtoffer..."
My translation: "...When employees linked to the ACV trade union put air traffic to a hold, I don't believe it's coincidence. Holidaymakers are the victim..."

Retweet from Luk De Wilde, senior aviation journalist: "...Zorgvuldig voorbereid, zonder meer. En niet de eerste keer. Kan alleen in België..."
My translation: "...A well prepared action, and not the first time. Only possible in Belgium..."

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 34902
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by sn26567 » 02 Mar 2019, 22:51

The unions had promised not to act during the winter break vacation (in order to avoid the wrath of the holiday goers) and to reconvene with management on 11 March. Indeed, they did not interfere with the vacationers. But they secretly prepared an action mainly aimed against the economy of the country: cargo flights with origin or destination LGG, the only airport remaining open 24 hours. Mission accomplished! How can I not be cynical?
André
ex Sabena #26567

Acid-drop
Posts: 2587
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Acid-drop » 03 Mar 2019, 10:11

It is an act of war against our economy indeed.
The ultimate version of selfishness coupled with the highest degree of public mockery.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

User avatar
KriVa
Posts: 1325
Joined: 31 Mar 2010, 20:15
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by KriVa » 03 Mar 2019, 10:14

I’ve done my best to keep out of this thread for as long as possible, but I won’t stand for lies.
Those who know me, and by now that number is getting rather high, know that I’m not the kind of person to lie or exaggerate.
All I will say on the topic is this:
I expected some of you to do your due diligence, and not take some questionable reports at face value.
Make of that what you want, this will be my only post in this thread.
Suffice to say I’m rather disappointed by the lack of investigative journalism on this website and forum.
Thomas

Acid-drop
Posts: 2587
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Acid-drop » 03 Mar 2019, 10:20

Why do you need journalist work for ? Why would you think.any investigation is necessary ?

Nothing can ever justify such an idiotic selfish action.
They dont even deserve to be understood.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

737MAX
Posts: 221
Joined: 29 Aug 2017, 08:46

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by 737MAX » 03 Mar 2019, 10:40

Acid-drop wrote:
03 Mar 2019, 10:20
Why do you need journalist work for ? Why would you think.any investigation is necessary ?

Nothing can ever justify such an idiotic selfish action.
They dont even deserve to be understood.
You’d have done exactly the same if you were in their seats. You just don’t have a clue of what you (and some others) are talking about. You only see this: « they make a lot of money and they have a nice job ». And you are unable to think further than this.

It’s always easy to criticize others when you are not involved AT ALL in their position/situation.

Acid-drop
Posts: 2587
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Acid-drop » 03 Mar 2019, 10:45

This is so wrong. Trying to justify such an intense and harmful attack on our economy.
This isnt about blocking one boulevard in Brussels.
Pause a second and realize the scale.

Next time the nurses are on strike, should they shutdown electricity for the whole country ?
Next time the teachers are on strike should they block all highways of the country for 6h ?

Nothing can justify their action. Wether I understand them or not is not even important. Stick to the facts.

6 unhappy kids can paralize a whole country. Whats next ?
How can you even dare to try to justify that
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 34902
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by sn26567 » 03 Mar 2019, 11:11

Speaking of lies, who started that game? The ATCOs pretending to be sick in order not to lose one cent of their pay, when everybody knows they are perfectly healthy, or the people just reporting that fact? The unions promising not to strike before 11 March and finding another way to hurt our economy, or the victims of their action, or rather inaction?
André
ex Sabena #26567

Boeing767copilot
Posts: 1275
Joined: 13 May 2004, 00:00

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Boeing767copilot » 03 Mar 2019, 11:55

sn26567 wrote:
03 Mar 2019, 11:11
Speaking of lies, who started that game? The ATCOs pretending to be sick in order not to lose one cent of their pay, when everybody knows they are perfectly healthy, or the people just reporting that fact? The unions promising not to strike before 11 March and finding another way to hurt our economy, or the victims of their action, or rather inaction?
Well said André, fully agree with you.

Passenger
Posts: 6074
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by Passenger » 03 Mar 2019, 12:26

KriVa wrote:
03 Mar 2019, 10:14
I’ve done my best to keep out of this thread for as long as possible, but I won’t stand for lies.
Those who know me, and by now that number is getting rather high, know that I’m not the kind of person to lie or exaggerate.
All I will say on the topic is this:
I expected some of you to do your due diligence, and not take some questionable reports at face value.
Make of that what you want, this will be my only post in this thread.
Suffice to say I’m rather disappointed by the lack of investigative journalism on this website and forum.
There is no need for investigative journalism, when senior aviation journalists like Luk De Wilde can easyly establish what happened.

And even for a mainstream media like HLN.be, it's obvious. A few hours after the industrial action started, they wrote: Volgens Callaerts (ACV Transcom) heeft de directie nog geprobeerd om mensen op vrijwillige basis op te roepen. Het is echter niet gelukt om voldoende personeel te verzamelen, wat volgens de vakbondsman niet als een verrassing komt. “Als je weet hoe de situatie vandaag is in het bedrijf, met de dossiers rond loopbaanonderbreking, de werkroosters voor maart en het weigeren van verlof”, zegt de vakbondsman nog. Dehaene (skyes) spreekt dat tegen. “Het klopt dat er enkele langdurig zieken zijn, maar er hebben zich gisterenavond op het laatste moment nog mensen ziek gemeld, waardoor er te weinig tijd was om mensen te vinden die bereid waren om te werken”, zegt hij.

737MAX
Posts: 221
Joined: 29 Aug 2017, 08:46

Re: Belgian FIR quasi-closed during night 01-02/03

Post by 737MAX » 03 Mar 2019, 13:22

Acid-drop wrote:
03 Mar 2019, 10:45
This is so wrong. Trying to justify such an intense and harmful attack on our economy.
This isnt about blocking one boulevard in Brussels.
Pause a second and realize the scale.

Next time the nurses are on strike, should they shutdown electricity for the whole country ?
Next time the teachers are on strike should they block all highways of the country for 6h ?

Nothing can justify their action. Wether I understand them or not is not even important. Stick to the facts.

6 unhappy kids can paralize a whole country. Whats next ?
How can you even dare to try to justify that
Your google translate doesn’t seem to work properly foe you...

I said in other replies that they shouldn’t be allowed to block the entire airspace. There should be a back-up or a mandatory minimum service, whatever, but their situation is unacceptable and has been the same for years. Open your eyes and ears before judging anything.

6 unhappy kids, you said? Hmmmmm. Says enough, I guess.

Post Reply