Lufthansa in 2019

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Conti764
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

Post by Conti764 »

sn26567 wrote: 25 Jun 2019, 21:05 Lufthansa will look at ordering the A321XLR, says chief executive Carsten Spohr, but added that he did not think the new model was a game changer.

Can Spohr be wrong on this one too? Oh, he will never openly admit a mistake, despite the recent slap he got in his face...
It remains to be seen... SN could do a handful of destinations on an XLR for which the A330 is overkill, but LX or OS, let alone LH itself?

What routes might be possible from MUC? FRA is out of the question since it's LH's power hub and it's constraint so LH needs capacity at FRA.

Since airlines all over the world are looking to dispose A380's the business model of aviation might drastically change in the not so distant future. The era of mega hubs seem to come to an end and attention might shift again to more direct flying on 787 and A350, no wonder those two are increasingly dispatched to a smaller airport like BRU.

In that perspective the A321XLR might play its role as well, like the B752 did when a lot of transatlantic routes which were unrealistic before became possible.

Matt
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

Post by Matt »

Conti764 wrote: 25 Jun 2019, 22:25
sn26567 wrote: 25 Jun 2019, 21:05 Lufthansa will look at ordering the A321XLR, says chief executive Carsten Spohr, but added that he did not think the new model was a game changer.

Can Spohr be wrong on this one too? Oh, he will never openly admit a mistake, despite the recent slap he got in his face...
It remains to be seen... SN could do a handful of destinations on an XLR for which the A330 is overkill, but LX or OS, let alone LH itself?

What routes might be possible from MUC? FRA is out of the question since it's LH's power hub and it's constraint so LH needs capacity at FRA.

Since airlines all over the world are looking to dispose A380's the business model of aviation might drastically change in the not so distant future. The era of mega hubs seem to come to an end and attention might shift again to more direct flying on 787 and A350, no wonder those two are increasingly dispatched to a smaller airport like BRU.

In that perspective the A321XLR might play its role as well, like the B752 did when a lot of transatlantic routes which were unrealistic before became possible.
I don't really see how the A321XLR will become a game changer either. but we will see how things turn out. I loath the idea of a transatlantic flight on an a321 ( just like I loathed the idea of a 757-200 )

I can see SN using one for an evening flight to NY tough.

FYI: the 757-200 didnt drastically change the industry either and the range is not that different.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 08:24 I don't really see how the A321XLR will become a game changer either. but we will see how things turn out. I loath the idea of a transatlantic flight on an a321 ( just like I loathed the idea of a 757-200 )

I can see SN using one for an evening flight to NY tough.

FYI: the 757-200 didnt drastically change the industry either and the range is not that different.
When transatlantic jets were introduced in the 1960ies, they were operated on single-aisle aircraft: Boeing 707, DC8, Convair 880. But the comfort was excellent: I fondly remembered many flights to JFK and ATL on Sabena's 707s, in Economy, mind you. It all depends on how the cabin is outfitted.
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Matt
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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sn26567 wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 09:17
Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 08:24 I don't really see how the A321XLR will become a game changer either. but we will see how things turn out. I loath the idea of a transatlantic flight on an a321 ( just like I loathed the idea of a 757-200 )

I can see SN using one for an evening flight to NY tough.

FYI: the 757-200 didnt drastically change the industry either and the range is not that different.
When transatlantic jets were introduced in the 1960ies, they were operated on single-aisle aircraft: Boeing 707, DC8, Convair 880. But the comfort was excellent: I fondly remembered many flights to JFK and ATL on Sabena's 707s, in Economy, mind you. It all depends on how the cabin is outfitted.
Indeed, how the cabin is outfitted, that for me is the problem, if I see pictures of the 60's, those cabins look a lot more spacious than the cabins nowadays. Of course I am too young to have actually seen this. but is this the case? were they more spacious? ( or at least: had the impression of being more spacious? )

i know: it's off topic. But i'm curious :D

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Conti764
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 10:26
sn26567 wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 09:17
Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 08:24 I don't really see how the A321XLR will become a game changer either. but we will see how things turn out. I loath the idea of a transatlantic flight on an a321 ( just like I loathed the idea of a 757-200 )

I can see SN using one for an evening flight to NY tough.

FYI: the 757-200 didnt drastically change the industry either and the range is not that different.
When transatlantic jets were introduced in the 1960ies, they were operated on single-aisle aircraft: Boeing 707, DC8, Convair 880. But the comfort was excellent: I fondly remembered many flights to JFK and ATL on Sabena's 707s, in Economy, mind you. It all depends on how the cabin is outfitted.
Indeed, how the cabin is outfitted, that for me is the problem, if I see pictures of the 60's, those cabins look a lot more spacious than the cabins nowadays. Of course I am too young to have actually seen this. but is this the case? were they more spacious? ( or at least: had the impression of being more spacious? )

i know: it's off topic. But i'm curious :D
Back in those days, flying was limited to the happy few. ;)

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 10:26
sn26567 wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 09:17
Matt wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 08:24 I don't really see how the A321XLR will become a game changer either. but we will see how things turn out. I loath the idea of a transatlantic flight on an a321 ( just like I loathed the idea of a 757-200 )

I can see SN using one for an evening flight to NY tough.

FYI: the 757-200 didnt drastically change the industry either and the range is not that different.
When transatlantic jets were introduced in the 1960ies, they were operated on single-aisle aircraft: Boeing 707, DC8, Convair 880. But the comfort was excellent: I fondly remembered many flights to JFK and ATL on Sabena's 707s, in Economy, mind you. It all depends on how the cabin is outfitted.
Indeed, how the cabin is outfitted, that for me is the problem, if I see pictures of the 60's, those cabins look a lot more spacious than the cabins nowadays. Of course I am too young to have actually seen this. but is this the case? were they more spacious? ( or at least: had the impression of being more spacious? )

i know: it's off topic. But i'm curious :D
Didn't they have a 2-3-layout? That surely creates a more spacious layout compared to 3-3. Wikipedia says the 707 (and 757) have a fuselage width of 3759 mm, the A320-family with the A321XLR a fuselage width of 3.95m. A difference of only 20cm, but it's a little bit more spacious anyway...

But yeh, it all depends.... https://www.gettyimages.be/detail/nieuw ... s/51425930

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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PttU wrote: 26 Jun 2019, 11:08 Didn't they have a 2-3-layout? That surely creates a more spacious layout compared to 3-3. Wikipedia says the 707 (and 757) have a fuselage width of 3759 mm, the A320-family with the A321XLR a fuselage width of 3.95m. A difference of only 20cm, but it's a little bit more spacious anyway...
The seats of the 707 were in 3-3 layout, probably somewhat narrower than the A320 seats, but with a pitch of 34" (vs 31" as long-haul economy standard now).

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Lufthansa Cargo is in talks with unions to retire its MD-11F fleet earlier than planned, with the 12 freighters on track to exit in 2020.
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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German investors and financiers don't believe Carsten Spohr can put back Lufthansa on the right track. Hereunder an article from Focus Magazin issued today (translated from German):

Mr. Spohr, please fasten your seat belt!

Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr has come into severe turbulence with Europe's largest airline. Kerosene is becoming more expensive, tickets are getting cheaper, climate discussion. And now strikes are also threatening. Can the top manager reinvent the airline?

A stall is considered a particularly dangerous phenomenon in aviation. If the airflow is missing under the wings, aircraft crash. Only courageous manoeuvers can prevent worse. Carsten Spohr, 52, head of Lufthansa with his own A320 pilot license, is currently experiencing a personal stall. It looks like fortune left him after five years as CEO.

This was demonstrated, for example, when Lufthansa invited in particular investors and shareholders to its Capital Markets Day at the Frankfurt headquarters in order to convince them of the course of the airline group. Unfortunately, this failed brilliantly, because after five hours of presentations, charts and assurances by Spohr and four of his colleagues on the management board ("We are committed to a higher profit"), the ruling of the stockbrokers was unequivocal: a new low for Lufthansa shares. Recently, the share price was lower only before the bankruptcy of Air Berlin - in March 2017. Among the CEOs of the 30 largest German companies (Dax), Spohr is actually an extraordinary speaker (even in English), but he could not convince his audience.
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Poiu
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

Post by Poiu »

sn26567 wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:17 A stall is considered a particularly dangerous phenomenon in aviation. If the airflow is missing under the wings, aircraft crash. Only courageous manoeuvers can prevent worse.
Off topic, but as this is an aviation forum....
An aircraft will stall (not necessarily crash) when the airflow OVER the wing (not under the wing) is missing.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

Post by crew1990 »

Poiu wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 20:57
sn26567 wrote: 08 Jul 2019, 19:17 A stall is considered a particularly dangerous phenomenon in aviation. If the airflow is missing under the wings, aircraft crash. Only courageous manoeuvers can prevent worse.
Off topic, but as this is an aviation forum....
An aircraft will stall (not necessarily crash) when the airflow OVER the wing (not under the wing) is missing.
Well, actually both air flow are important, and the phenomen of "Lift" is explain by the Bernnouilli law. Basicaly, because of the airspeed difference between the extrados (top of the wing) and intrados (Under the wing), it's resulting in a difference of pressure on both part of the wing wich create the lift.

In aviation we tend to give a lot of importance on the top of the wing because this is where the ice and snow can deviate the air flow. But actualy both airflow are important.

If the air flow is deviated, the lift, the force pushing the the aircraft upward become weaker than the weight, the force applying downward due to the gravity, the attraction of the aircraft with the earth.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Thanks for these lessons in aerodynamics! The article wanted only to compare the performance of Spohr with the one of an aircraft close to a stall...
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr warns of a drastic drop in its operations at Zurich airport if further restrictions at the hub were to continue.
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr (the man of the Eurowings debacle) says Ryanair is “irresponsible” for charging less than €10 for tickets on certain German routes while adding the airline won’t be pushed out of its home market. That remains to be seen!
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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sn26567 wrote: 16 Jul 2019, 21:28 Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr (the man of the Eurowings debacle) says Ryanair is “irresponsible” for charging less than €10 for tickets on certain German routes while adding the airline won’t be pushed out of its home market. That remains to be seen!
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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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sn26567 wrote: 16 Jul 2019, 21:28 Lufthansa chief executive Carsten Spohr (the man of the Eurowings debacle) says Ryanair is “irresponsible” for charging less than €10 for tickets on certain German routes while adding the airline won’t be pushed out of its home market. That remains to be seen!
Unfortunately, the above quote is not what Carsten Spohr said about those 10 € tickets. Actually, if one reads what he really said, one can only agree with him:
https://nzzas.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/lufthan ... ld.1495780

The quote is taken out of context from a very long interview Neue Zürcher Zeitung am Sonndag had with him about aviation pollution, CO² emissions, aviation taxes etc. The real quote is this (translated via Translate.Google): These ultra-low-priced offerings make our industry a target for criticism. And at the same time it clogs the airspace, stimulating an artificial demand that would not exist at realistic prices. Flights for less than ten € should not exist.

In German - quoted from the interview:
Question: Kompensieren die Fluggäste wenigstens vermehrt ihre Emissionen?
Spohr: Bisher zahlten weniger als ein Prozent der Passagiere freiwillig an Organisationen, die den CO2-Ausstoss kompensieren. Wir integrieren gerade gruppenweit diese Möglichkeit sichtbarer in den Buchungsprozess, damit mehr Fluggäste sie auch nutzen. Wir tun das übrigens schon für alle unsere Mitarbeiter weltweit. Sie argumentieren wie alle Branchenvertreter mit dem sinkenden CO2-Ausstoss pro Person. Das Mengenwachstum der Branche macht den Effekt aber zunichte. Insgesamt wachsen die von den Flotten ausgestossenen Klimagase. Die Emissionen nehmen in der Tat absolut zu, aber sie steigen stark unterproportional zum Wachstum. Wenn wir jetzt aus unserer mitteleuropäischen Sicht einen Flugverzicht verlangen, dann fordern wir auch von Menschen in Schwellenländern einen Verzicht auf die Chance, die Welt zu entdecken. Das wird nicht gelingen. Im Gegenteil: Dort findet in den kommenden Jahren der grösste Wachstumsschub statt.

Question: Auch hierzulande nimmt das Fliegen massiv zu. Es gibt Billigangebote in Hülle und Fülle?
Spohr: Richtig. Insgesamt haben wir in Europa zu viel Kapazitäten im Markt. Insgesamt haben wir in Europa zu viel Kapazitäten im Markt die häufig zu Spottpreisen verhökert werden. Wettbewerber arbeiten tatsächlich teilweise mit Preisen pro Flug unter zehn €. Das ist ökonomisch, ökologisch und auch politisch unverantwortlich.

Question: Dann sagen Sie selbst, fliegen sei zu billig?
Spohr: Am untersten Ende - ja. Denn diese Ultra-Billigangebote machen unsere Branche zur Zielscheibe für Kritik. Und gleichzeitig wird damit der Luftraum verstopft, weil eine künstliche Nachfrage stimuliert wird, die es zu realistischen Preisen nicht gäbe. Flüge für unter zehn € dürfte es nicht geben.

Question: Eurowings, die Billigairline der Lufthansa-Gruppe, bietet auch Trips für unter 35 € an. Das ist nicht viel teurer?
Spohr: Weil wir unsere Heimatmärkte verteidigen müssen, können wir uns dem nicht vollständig entziehen. Von den Extremen abgesehen, haben günstige Tickets die Demokratisierung des Fliegens aber für breite Schichten der Bevölkerung erst ermöglicht.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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That's exactly why we need to tax Airlines tickets!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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737MAX wrote: 17 Jul 2019, 20:06
lumumba wrote: 17 Jul 2019, 19:55 That's exactly why we need to tax Airlines tickets!
To have fares at 12€ iso 10€?
Pffffff...
So anyway it's no big deal!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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lumumba wrote: 17 Jul 2019, 19:55 That's exactly why we need to tax Airlines tickets!
Less then one procent of air travellers pay voluntary for a compensation of their CO² emission. Are you one of them?

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Re: Lufthansa in 2019

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Passenger wrote: 17 Jul 2019, 21:16
lumumba wrote: 17 Jul 2019, 19:55 That's exactly why we need to tax Airlines tickets!
Less then one procent of air travellers pay voluntary for a compensation of their CO² emission. Are you one of them?
I didn't it was possible!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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