Air Belgium in 2019

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Linty
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Location: Weerde Zemst

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Linty » 05 Aug 2019, 11:15

Maybe I'm not perfectly placed to translate business logic to the Airline business. But making loss in the first years of a company is not that exceptional. You have to invest. Besides they had bad luck with a few external factors you can not have completely under control. This business is evolving rapidly, as a company you are not always able to react in a short term.
Nevertheless I see positive signs to touch other markets. They react flexible. You can do always better, it remains a huge challenge.

737MAX
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by 737MAX » 05 Aug 2019, 11:55

Indeed, nobody with a bit of common sense would have expected good results for the first year of operation at Air Belgium...

nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 05 Aug 2019, 13:51

Linty wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 11:15
Maybe I'm not perfectly placed to translate business logic to the Airline business. But making loss in the first years of a company is not that exceptional. You have to invest. Besides they had bad luck with a few external factors you can not have completely under control. This business is evolving rapidly, as a company you are not always able to react in a short term.
Nevertheless I see positive signs to touch other markets. They react flexible. You can do always better, it remains a huge challenge.
Choosing Hong Kong when CX is opening BRU HKG is an external factor ? Choosing CRL where the runway is too short is an external factor ? Choosing Airbus 340 is an external factor ? I doubt !

Linty
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Location: Weerde Zemst

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Linty » 05 Aug 2019, 15:03

nordikcam wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 13:51
Choosing Hong Kong when CX is opening BRU HKG is an external factor ? Choosing CRL where the runway is too short is an external factor ? Choosing Airbus 340 is an external factor ? I doubt !
Maybe it was. Or in case you know the hundreds and hundreds of decision points by heart, do not hesitate to communicate them. I would be very interested.

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Airbus330lover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Airbus330lover » 05 Aug 2019, 16:18

BTW HKG was chosen long time before the coming of CX. Long time to get the AOC make it more difficult

nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by nordikcam » 05 Aug 2019, 16:27

Airbus330lover wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 16:18
BTW HKG was chosen long time before the coming of CX. Long time to get the AOC make it more difficult
Absolutely, but can not we adapt? They did this by leaving HKG when they realized that their partners were unreliable. That too ... it's external and so not their fault? They had signed a partnership without knowing that they were not talking to the right people. Special!
If the French West Indies are the Grail why not have started with these islands that were already there last year?

Passenger
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Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Passenger » 05 Aug 2019, 16:41

Airbus330lover wrote:
05 Aug 2019, 16:18
BTW HKG was chosen long time before the coming of CX. Long time to get the AOC make it more difficult
Indeed - this was the timeline:
Passenger wrote:
14 May 2019, 11:47
Air Belgium’s first announcement was in August 2016, with this remark on their Linkedin page: “to commence revenu operations [to Hong Kong] later this year”.

Cathay's first announcement was in August 2017, via a press release “first flight to Brussels on 25 March 2018”.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by BrightCedars » 06 Aug 2019, 09:32

CX beat them on opening HKG due to many factors and then it was an uphill battle they couldn't win.

They got quads, right. Would they have qualified for ETOPS from the start without any history? I doubt.

CRL is another story. BRU was certainly too greedy for a local newcomer. Then Wallonia saw potential (remember CRL just 20 year ago?) and moved in.

I certainly did not expect them to turn a profit in year one. And they certainly didn't plan to loose that much.

I still wish them all the best for the future even if I have been cynical about them in the past.

rwandan-flyer
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by rwandan-flyer » 06 Aug 2019, 10:26

They could be a Belgium XL Airways or Corsair, by focusing on some leisures destinations, where there is a big point to point trafic. If Belgium Air Transport wants to be competitive, they also need others Belgium airlines, not only Brussels Airlines. I really hope that Air Belgium, Air Antwerp will succeed.

In France, we lost many airlines, between late 90s and early 2000s, such as Air Liberté, Air Littoral, AOM. Most of them were badly managed, but they have left a gap in many airports, in French Province. Ryanair, easyJet and Volotea have filled the gap. Competition from French airline is low. Air France can't do everything, and the airline was always focused on its Parisians hubs (Orly and Roissy).

France is the only country in Europe, with the highest numbers foreign airlines bases:

Vueling: Orly & Roissy, they closed Toulouse based few years ago.
EasyJet: Nantes, Lyon, Toulouse, Nice, Bordeaux
Volotea: Nantes, Bordeaux, Toulouse, Marseille, Strasbourg (another one will open by 2 years)
Nowergian Long Haul: Roissy
Ryanair: Marseille & Bordeaux
Level: Orly

I know in BE, there are not domestic service, and there few airports in the Province. But looks Netherlands. Transavia, Corendon Dutch Airlines & TUI Ned, have a big presence in other Dutch airports, meaning, they are not a big presence of foreign airlines at Rotterdam, Eindhoven,...Ryanair has closed its base at Eindhoven (manly due to a Dutch Court Rulling). They still have a presence at ENI.

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting » 06 Aug 2019, 20:06

Air Belgium to operate 2 flights for Air Madagascar on 7 and 8 August 2019.

Paris CDG - Antananarivo

MD051 CDG - TNR 15:10 - 02:55+1 A343 OOABB 07/08/2019

MD050 TNR - CDG 20:50 - 07:05+1 A343 OOABB 08/08/2019

Thanks to "Aéroport Paris - Charles de Gaulle" Facebook Group.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

SR20
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by SR20 » 06 Aug 2019, 23:09

"Eight days after the opening of reservations on the Caribbean, 20% of flights are already filled," says Niky Terzakis, the CEO of Air Belgium, who is sure that his company is filling a gap.

https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... 51530.html

TLspotting
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by TLspotting » 07 Aug 2019, 16:33

Air Madagascar schedule delayed : MD051 CDG - TNR 21:20 - 09:05+1 A343 07/08/2019

MD050 TNR - CDG 23:35 - 09:50+1 A343 08/08/2019
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Passenger » 07 Aug 2019, 22:05

Shocking statement from CEO NT in some newspapers, as reported in an article on the homepage today:
"...The problems were compounded by the opening of the Brussels – Hong Kong route by Cathay Pacific. Terzakis regrets that Brussels Airport welcomed Cathay, a direct competitor, with open arms instead of favouring national companies...."
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air- ... he-future/
This is untrue, and it's an insult towards Brussels Airport:

1. Air Belgium was also wellcome at Brussels Airport. But for socio-political reasons, Air Belgium preferred CRL.

2. Brussels Airport has done nothing unusual (let alone something illegal) to favourite Cathay. Cathay received the same incentives that every new airline gets when they open new routes at BRU. These incentives are public/published. If Air Belgium starts flying from BRU tomorrow, the red carpet will be rolled out for them too.

3. Air Belgium has lost the commercial battle against Cathay not because of BRU favouring Cathay, but because of the very late delivery of Air Belgiums' AOC. If/when AB would have received its AOC end of 2016, as they hoped, they had one year advantage on Cathay. Reminder of the time lapse: Air Belgium’s first announcement was in August 2016, with this remark on their Linkedin page: “to commence revenu operations to Hong Kong later this year”. Cathay's first announcement was in August 2017, via a press release “first flight to Brussels on 25 March 2018”.

ZavCity
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by ZavCity » 08 Aug 2019, 11:38

Completely true..Everyone knows the Wallon gvt is involved, so they wanted CRL as a base !
gtz
paul

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Atlantis » 10 Aug 2019, 08:49

Exactly. This is very very low of him to state this publicly. They had the choice and they choose CRL bcs of the money and Walloon government being involved but they had to take also all disadvantage like a short runway. So instead of playing the victim and blaming others, look first at your own decisions

Boavida
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Boavida » 10 Aug 2019, 14:20

As long as Air Belgium choses to fly from CRL, I don't see a bright future for them. Air Belgium seems more like a political project than a proper airline. Too bad.

flightlover
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Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by flightlover » 11 Aug 2019, 01:29

Boavida wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 14:20
As long as Air Belgium choses to fly from CRL, I don't see a bright future for them. Air Belgium seems more like a political project than a proper airline. Too bad.
They needed a reason to extend the runway, don't think anyone else was candidate to play such a role.

Stij
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by Stij » 11 Aug 2019, 09:11

flightlover wrote:
11 Aug 2019, 01:29
They needed a reason to extend the runway, don't think anyone else was candidate to play such a role.
Sometime I think the airport is there to give work to the local general contractors...

Cheers,

Stij

737MAX
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by 737MAX » 11 Aug 2019, 10:52

Stij wrote:
11 Aug 2019, 09:11
flightlover wrote:
11 Aug 2019, 01:29
They needed a reason to extend the runway, don't think anyone else was candidate to play such a role.
Sometime I think the airport is there to give work to the local general contractors...

Cheers,

Stij
:roll:

The runway extension was decided way before Air Belgium, and is needed for all current operators as well.
RWY25 can be limiting and although it's not a factor most of the time, the extra length will be a + for everybody (including neighbors who probably still don't get it, but more runway in this case will mean less noise...).

JOVAN
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Re: Air Belgium in 2019

Post by JOVAN » 11 Aug 2019, 11:17

Passenger wrote:
07 Aug 2019, 22:05
Shocking statement from CEO NT in some newspapers, as reported in an article on the homepage today:
"...The problems were compounded by the opening of the Brussels – Hong Kong route by Cathay Pacific. Terzakis regrets that Brussels Airport welcomed Cathay, a direct competitor, with open arms instead of favouring national companies...."
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air- ... he-future/
This is untrue, and it's an insult towards Brussels Airport:

1.[/i]
I do not see any insult here.
Do you have a problem with freedom of speech?? and freedom of Opinion ?

The CEO gives his comments and opinions.
He is a businessman, so he has probably taken all aspects in account.
Including prices to operate to/from BRU.
AB made a decision . CRL won. BRU lost a customer.

CRL is not a very comfortable airport, quite messy indeed. Chaotic even.
But they go for low cost. CRL's success and continuous growth shows their formula works.

Of course, you can be sure, there will be new long haul destinations from CRL.
That is because Wallonia has an Aviation Policy.

AB is first, but other long haul airlines, and destibations will follow.

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